Sanders to vote against debt bill, says Biden should invoke 14th Amendment

[Uncle Joe]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said he will vote against the bill that President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) agreed upon to raise the debt ceiling and called on Biden to eliminate the ceiling himself through the 14th Amendment.

While he remains opposed to the bill, Sanders said in a statement Wednesday that the agreement could have been “much worse” and is a significant improvement from the Limit, Save, Grow Act that House Republicans passed in April. He said Republicans’ bill would have made major cuts to health care, education, childcare, nutrition assistance and other programs for the next decade, while the agreed upon bill would only make “modest” cuts for the next two years.

(snip)

Sanders said he cannot “in good conscience” vote for a bill that would make affording the cost of childcare, health care and housing more difficult for working families while helping the wealthiest individuals and companies “cheat” on their taxes.

(snip)

Sanders also criticized provisions of the bill that would advance the development of a major gas pipeline in West Virginia, increase military spending — where the U.S. already spends much more than other countries — and would end the federal moratorium on students repaying federal student loans that has been in place throughout the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The fact of the matter is that this bill is totally unnecessary,” Sanders said. “The President has the authority and ability to eliminate the debt ceiling today by invoking the 14th Amendment. I look forward to the day when he exercises this authority and puts an end, once and for all, to the outrageous actions of this extreme right-wing to hold our entire economy hostage in order to get what they want.”

(snip)

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4028921-sanders-to-vote-against-debt-bill-says-biden-should-invoke-14th-amendment/

[Chainfire]

1. Yea, well, whatever...

It is not a perfect world, Bernie.

[Uncle Joe]

3. That's true,

perfection doesn't come without a price.

[FarPoint]

2. Ahhhhh

Okay...

[brush]

4. Come on, Bernie. Are you back to raging against the Democratic...

establishment again? We thought you had gotten that out of your system when you didn't run in 2020.

[Rebl2]

32. So I

guess Sanders prefers to plunge our economy into chaos and free fall? I am sure many seniors and people with little money would certainly not appreciate that Mr. Sanders.

[brush]

33. Exactly.

[FalloutShelter]

5. I just love it when someone...

Looking at you too Liz Warren, who is insulated by money and celebrity and position think that Joe should just push the plunger and tank the markets.
Janet Yellin said that the 14 th would ALSO roil the markets and cause loss of faith in our system.

[BootinUp]

6. Bernie knows best /sarcasm

[Uncle Joe]

7. The 14th is actually part of the Constitution, the debt limit is just a form of

avoiding accountability and providing a means of extortion by the Republicans.

This is the third time the Republicans have held the American People hostage while violating the 14th Amendment.

[FalloutShelter]

8. I agree.

My point it that all of the people that are deciding this matter are All insulated from the results of this action. ALL OF THEM.
The best of the worst options are what we should be rooting for. Not the cliff.

JMHO

[ColinC]

11. They are necessary to remind us that deals like this are the exception based on terrorists

And should never, ever be the norm. The more we celebrate these deals and expect them as a part of our politics, we allow terrorist tactics like the GOP are using to also be more accepted.

[Uncle Joe]

12. I believe that's true to some degree,

I don't know of any Congress People receiving a whopping $6.00 a day for food stamps and no doubt particularly the wealthier ones received greater benefit from those tax cuts passed during the *rump Administration.

I do believe the mega-wealthy are better insulated, but even they will be damaged in one form or another.

Having said that I see no end to Republican extortion, three times within the past 25 years simply because they didn't have the votes to pass their own greed based legislation unless they stop being rewarded for it.

If they can ignore the 14th Amendment section dealing with respecting the national debt when it suits them, they can ignore the rest as well.

Trump Pledges to End Birthright Citizenship

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17957042

This was my post on that thread

Amendment XIV

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

(snip)

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

(snip)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

[The Magistrate]

9. What Is This Goose-Cackle About His Conscience, Sir?

I expect McConnell will whip up a vote to replace the man's indulgence in moral pretension.

Politics is not a stage on which one displays virtue to an admiring audience: it is the business of deciding who tells whom to do what.

No one reaches the rank of Senator with a functioning conscience....

[emulatorloo]

10. Performative 'Purity' Malarkey.

[Peregrine Took]

13. A man of lifelong principle. He never wavered regardless of politics.

My husband went to the University of Chicago with him in the early 1960's, both scholarship students. Even back then he was totally committed to helping those in need just as he is today.

[Uncle Joe]

17. ...

[Freethinker65]

14. As long as he doesn't block the Bill from being voted on, and it passes

Meh.

[anciano]

15. IMO compromise is essential to a functioning democracy.....

neither side gets everything it wants, but both sides get something.

[Uncle Joe]

16. IMO, extortion is not compromise,

it's just death by a thousand cuts.

[sheshe2]

18. White House: 14th Amendment won't solve current debt ceiling standoff

Jean-Pierre’s comments addressed the potential for Biden to apply the 14th Amendment as a potential escape hatch but acknowledged he administration would face a host of legal issues as a result while the nation inches closer to defaulting on trillions in debts.

The idea hinges on a phrase in the 14th Amendment that says the public debt “shall not be questioned,” which proponents of the idea argue means the president could unilaterally continue to issue debt if Congress does not act.

During a press conference on Sunday in Japan, Biden said he believes he has the authority to use the 14th Amendment, but acknowledged doing so could result in a drawn out court battle.

“I’m looking at the 14th Amendment as to whether or not we have the authority — I think we have the authority,” Biden told reporters at a press conference in Hiroshima, Japan. “The question is, could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed, and as a consequence past the date in question and still default on the debt. That is a question that I think is unresolved.”

In a letter to congressional leaders Monday, Treasury Department Secretary Janet Yellen warned it was “highly likely” the U.S. will not be able to pay all of its debts if lawmakers do not act by early June, and “potentially as early as June 1.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4017577-white-house-14th-amendment-wont-solve-current-debt-ceiling-standoff/

Like trump the MAGA gop are appeal queens. They will stretch it out on appeal and we will default. I really don't think Bernie has thought this one through.

[Uncle Joe]

20. One thing about that

“I’m looking at the 14th Amendment as to whether or not we have the authority — I think we have the authority,” Biden told reporters at a press conference in Hiroshima, Japan.“The question is, could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed, and as a consequence past the date in question and still default on the debt. That is a question that I think is unresolved.”

From what I can tell, that will always be the case, whenever the Republicans decide to hold the nation hostage, it will always be the last minute shit.

I believe most people had a pretty a good idea after last November how the Republican Party would treat the 14th Amendment, they have already disregarded it twice before in the past 25 years.

They simply don't like that amendment and as they can ignore the section pertaining to respecting the debt they will most certainly work to erode and destroy the rest of the 14th Amendment.


Trump Pledges to End Birthright Citizenship

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17957042

[sheshe2]

21. They are cruel and want to destroy America.

They will appeal and then we default. Biden, bless him, he knows and will not take that chance. Why would Bernie call for the 14th when he knows it would fail? The results would be catastrophic to America and the world.

President Biden did the right thing. I trust him.

[anciano]

22. Agreed. President Biden knows what he's doing.

[Uncle Joe]

23. I agree and if they destroy the Constitution, they have.

As for Bernie's motivations it's in the OP

Sanders said he cannot “in good conscience” vote for a bill that would make affording the cost of childcare, health care and housing more difficult for working families while helping the wealthiest individuals and companies “cheat” on their taxes.

Not to mention the pipeline when the planet is frying and excessive military spending.

Bernie doesn't care to give in to extortion, do you believe this will be the last time a Republican Congress ignores the 14th Amendment?

[sheshe2]

24. So.

Please make it clear to me. I am not sure what you are saying here.

Is he okay that we default when they take the 14th amendment to SCOTUS? Is he willing to take that risk? Any delay tactics will put us in default in the next week. There is no way it will be resolved by then.

[Uncle Joe]

25. From what I can tell

it's in the OP.

“The fact of the matter is that this bill is totally unnecessary,” Sanders said. “The President has the authority and ability to eliminate the debt ceiling today by invoking the 14th Amendment. I look forward to the day when he exercises this authority and puts an end, once and for all, to the outrageous actions of this extreme right-wing to hold our entire economy hostage in order to get what they want.”

[sheshe2]

27. So, you have nothing to tell me...or perhaps you just did.

The 14th WILL BE APPEALED if the President invokes it. You know it, I know it, everyone knows the gop will do it. The GOP court will rule against it and then...we will default in one week.

RIP USA.

[Uncle Joe]

28. Do you believe the Republicans in power would also get burned

in case of a national debt default?

[sheshe2]

29. Joe...

You don't understand, you don't. This is the far, far, far insane maggots that are in control right now. They don't give a ra about this country. They say J6 is a lie. The election was a lie.

Joe, these people are not sane. They want to burn it all down!

Will they burn? Dunno, I doubt it. Pretty sure they have their own fail safe mechanisms in place. The rich and mighty always take care of themselves.

[Uncle Joe]

30. sheshe..

if there is one thing the Republican Party worships, it's money and they're not going to totally trash their personal, family and community fortunes because there are insane maggots in their midst.

They Republican Party worked too hard in giving the mega-wealthy tax cuts when *rump was in power, they're not going to throw that away.

The stock market would absolutely tank and 89% of that is owned by the wealthiest 10%

The dollar would become all but worthless.

The wealthiest 10% of Americans own a record 89% of all U.S. stocks

The wealthiest 10% of American households now own 89% of all U.S. stocks, a record high that highlights the stock market’s role in increasing wealth inequality.
The top 1% gained over $6.5 trillion in corporate equities and mutual fund wealth during the pandemic, according to the latest data from the Federal Reserve.
The bottom 90% of Americans held about 11% of stocks, and added $1.2 trillion in wealth during the Covid-19 pandemic.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-americans-own-a-record-89percent-of-all-us-stocks.html

Businesses would close, people would lose their jobs and real estate would fall as well.

There is no doubt they would go down in flames despite whatever safety mechanisms some of them have.

So I don't see any way, they would appeal what is a crystal clear statement of the 14th Amendment.

[TiberiusB]

31. The vote in the House proves your point

Only the hardcore voted against the bill. Just 20 republicans. The compromise was nothing like the magat faithful wanted, so the only real conclusion you can draw is that the whole thing was pure theater. The deal might be seen as a face saving move for the GOP, and going by the less than glowing press, not even that, but the overwhelming numbers voting for it suggest they were not going to actually risk default. If someone has a better explanation, I'd love to read it. So far, all I see are wildly inflated estimations of the Maga wing's influence. I suspect this stems from their bargain with McCarthy over the speakership, which amplified their caucus in the press and created the sense that they are some unstoppable juggernaut.

[malthaussen]

35. I don't think the USSC would rule against it.

The USSC can be counted on to perpetuate the mainstream GOP agenda -- which tanking the economy is definitely not a part of. I don't see Mr Justice Thomas, or any other wholly-owned subsidiary of the wealthy oligarchs, doing anything to injure the pocketbooks of the people who own them and who also hold the debt of the US.

While the debt ceiling provides a wonderful opportunity for drama and rhetoric whenever the GOP holds the House and not the WH, such drama is not essential to the agenda of the Right. The USSC is not interested in political maneuver and rhetoric, they're interested in advancing a substantive agenda which does not, actually, include a lot of things that people fear it does (and does include many things we have every right to fear). I do not think they'd blow up the economy just to perpetuate rhetorical opportunities for Congressmen.

-- Mal

[Demsrule86]

38. We have a rogue court...so we can't be sure that if we use the 14th it will stand. I was right

to support Joe Biden in 20 for sure. I can't believe anyone would think it is a good idea to go over the debt ceiling cliff. I hope the good Senator is merely playing a role here...to fool the GOP.

[Uncle Joe]

40. From my post# 30

If there is one thing the Republican Party (including the rogue court) worships, it's money and they're not going to totally trash their personal, family and community fortunes because there are insane maggots in their midst.

They Republican Party worked too hard in giving the mega-wealthy tax cuts when *rump was in power, they're not going to throw that away.

The stock market would absolutely tank and 89% of that is owned by the wealthiest 10%

The dollar would become all but worthless.

The wealthiest 10% of Americans own a record 89% of all U.S. stocks

The wealthiest 10% of American households now own 89% of all U.S. stocks, a record high that highlights the stock market’s role in increasing wealth inequality.
The top 1% gained over $6.5 trillion in corporate equities and mutual fund wealth during the pandemic, according to the latest data from the Federal Reserve.
The bottom 90% of Americans held about 11% of stocks, and added $1.2 trillion in wealth during the Covid-19 pandemic.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-americans-own-a-record-89percent-of-all-us-stocks.html

Businesses would close, people would lose their jobs and real estate would fall as well.

There is no doubt they would go down in flames despite whatever safety mechanisms some of them have.

So I don't see any way, they would appeal what is a crystal clear statement of the 14th Amendment.

[Demsrule86]

43. It could allow our Republic to be destroyed and fascism imposed. We came damn close in the 30's to

losing this nation. Hard times breed unrest. And I am not sure the money guys and the courts wouldn't help.

[questionseverything]

19. I think what bernie is doing here is boosting the idea that our president has the authority needed

Just in case the repubs try and shut it all down

I think bernie and Biden have played this number before with Bernie asking for way more than he knows is possible leaving an opening for the president to come in and ask for half as much, seeming very reasonable

Kind of a good cop, bad cop idea

[Rhiannon12866]

26. Senator Tim Kaine intends to introduce an amendment against the pipeline in his state

Which was not approved in Virginia and would take land from Virginia residents.

[malthaussen]

34. Might be a signal that this is already a done deal in the Senate.

A few rhetorical refusals by an odd Senator or two lets them brag about how they're remaining pure to their principles while still doing nothing to delay or damage the bill. The media, of course, will obligingly eat this sort of thing up.

Expect Susan Collins to announce she's "concerned" in 1...2...3

-- Mal

[Uncle Joe]

36. I believe it was all kabuki theater from the get go

Most everyone knew the Republicans would pull the same extortion scheme holding the nation hostage after last November.

They've done it twice before in the past 25 years and all three times occurred when there was a Democratic President, Clinton, Obama, and Biden.

It's the Republicans standard M.O. because they don't have the courage of their own convictions or faith in American democracy.

There was no doubt it would pass the House despite their insane maggot wing, too many (rich and powerful) people have too much to lose should the nation default.

Likewise there is no doubt, it will pass the Senate in one form or another.

But it most certainly creates an atmosphere of fear, uncertainty and the corporate media dutifully uses that to further corporate interests over the people.

[malthaussen]

37. Yep, my feelings exactly.

I don't know exactly how much of politics is form over function, but I suspect is is a large majority, and in this case, both sides are similar (albeit the Democrats do have at least a few substantive ideas beyond "Enrich the wealthy and make everyone else suffer!&quot

-- Mal

[Demsrule86]

39. There can be no amendments so it won't change...as you said Kabuki theater...

there is no time to renegotiate this deal, and it would be pointless. It must remain intact or it must go back to the House which can't happen.

[Uncle Joe]

41. By design for the third time in 25 years.

They can find a way when their personal financial interests are at stake.

[Demsrule86]

42. For the Republicans that is certainly true...but Democrats know what breaching the deb ceiling

would mean to this country.