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alp227

(31,962 posts)
Sun Jan 8, 2012, 11:39 PM Jan 2012

Supreme Court case tests FCC’s power to police TV indecency

...the Supreme Court is set to hear arguments Tuesday about whether the FCC should still have a role in policing the nation’s airwaves or whether its indecency regulations violate guarantees of free speech and due process.

The networks have argued successfully in lower courts that in a revolutionized world in which they exist “side by side” with cable channels that are beyond the FCC’s regulation, singling them out is not only nonsensical but unconstitutional.

(...)

The Obama administration is defending the FCC’s powers. If anything, it told the court, the new media world requires continued federal oversight of the public airwaves to provide a haven for parents and children from the anything-goes world of cable and the Internet.

(...)

The “uniquely pervasive” language in Fox’s brief comes from the Supreme Court’s 1978 decision in FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, in which it...found that the FCC was within constitutional boundaries to police the radio and television airwaves during the times children would probably be listening, which was interpreted as meaning between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m.

(...)

With the right to the public airwaves, (Parents Television Council president Tim) Winter said, come responsibilities.

“If they want to be indecent, as we’ve said in the past, they can wait until 10 o’clock and be as indecent as they want,” Winter said.

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-case-tests-fccs-power-to-police-tv-indecency/2012/01/03/gIQANAEujP_singlePage.html

The article also quoted Winter: "I’m a lifelong Democrat; I haven’t checked a Republican box on a presidential ballot since 1984." Former FCC officials now with the American Bar Association, in an amicus brief filed with SCOTUS, wrote: "The commission’s complaints policy has become so artificial that it naturally prompts the question, why does the Commission not simply turn the monitoring function over to the Parents Television Council?" (in reference to PTC's mass-complaint campaigns)

Other background info: in the FCC v. Fox case in 2009, the Sup Ct upheld the FCC's rights to regulate (in terms of administrative law) but deferred to lower courts in regard to constitutionality. The following year, the 2nd circuit court of appeals ruled that the policy had 1st amendment issues. The programming of concern included:
- the 2002 Billboard Music Awards (Fox), where Cher said "fuck 'em" to her critics,
- and the 2003 Billboard Music Awards (Fox), where Nicole Richie said in reference to her reality show "The Simple Life": "Have you ever tried to get cow shit out of a Prada purse? It's not so fucking simple." In both years, the network failed to mute the bad words out of the live broadcast in the Eastern and Central time zones but later edited the show for the tape-delayed Mountain and westward broadcasts.
- the NYPD Blue episode "Nude Awakening" (2003 on ABC) that showed a woman's naked buttocks for 7 seconds. That show aired at 10PM in the Eastern and Pacific time zones (thus exempt from the FCC decency timeslot) but an hour earlier in other time zones.

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Supreme Court case tests FCC’s power to police TV indecency (Original Post) alp227 Jan 2012 OP
I hope scotus rules against the FCC mr_liberal Jan 2012 #1
As socially liberal as I am it's unwise to allow Scarface to be played uncut on ABC during daytime alp227 Jan 2012 #5
Show me some scientific studies demonstrating how bad words harm children please. n/t backscatter712 Jan 2012 #11
I can show you the general degradation of manners in modern society, for one. alp227 Jan 2012 #12
Show me an article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. backscatter712 Jan 2012 #14
OK then, using profanity in front of children is usually a crime under 'disturbing the peace' alp227 Jan 2012 #16
Children learn bad language Politicalboi Jan 2012 #2
Good point, but if I can't cuss at a public place if kids are present, alp227 Jan 2012 #4
It has nothing to do with morals. It's about control. Gregorian Jan 2012 #3
+1 Its always 'about saving the children.' I don't buy it, and I'm sick of it n/t Joe Shlabotnik Jan 2012 #6
I have to agree with this. Heywood J Jan 2012 #7
Also, I've always believed that censorship was about protecting adults from being embarrassed. Gregorian Jan 2012 #8
Exactly. I'm wondering if children read DU. backscatter712 Jan 2012 #10
FCC v. Pacifica is an abomination against the First Amendment THAT MUST FUCKING DIE! backscatter712 Jan 2012 #9
Similar to how young people insert "like" as a filler word all the time, young people use cuss words alp227 Jan 2012 #13
This is different from how kids and teens have acted since the beginning of time how? n/t backscatter712 Jan 2012 #15
Let's just drop the pretense, our media is awash in sex and violence, and not much else. nt bemildred Jan 2012 #17
 

mr_liberal

(1,017 posts)
1. I hope scotus rules against the FCC
Sun Jan 8, 2012, 11:48 PM
Jan 2012

I think theres a good chance it will. I count 5 votes against the FCC on the court now. The liberals plus Kennedy.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
5. As socially liberal as I am it's unwise to allow Scarface to be played uncut on ABC during daytime
Mon Jan 9, 2012, 01:18 AM
Jan 2012

Yeah, it's an extreme example, but regulations are WHY this kind of programming decision can't happen. And I'm alright with the coarser programs being after 10PM and broadcast TV using bleeps and blurs and radio editing cuss words out of songs. But the FCC decisions in the last decade have been so arbitrary and capricious they deserve judicial review, such as the double standard between ABC's "NYPD Blue" getting away with using "bullshit" and the cuss words in the PBS documentary "The Blues". As well as the penalties for the accidental cuss words in the awards shows.

Shouldn't progressives support regulations? If the free market of broadcasting that uses the public airwaves won't be responsible to children, then government should regulate the broadcasters.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
14. Show me an article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 02:25 AM
Jan 2012

Your fuzzy intuitive opinion that manners have degraded is hardly scientific.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
16. OK then, using profanity in front of children is usually a crime under 'disturbing the peace'
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 02:54 AM
Jan 2012

see this law in Idaho: "Every person who...uses any vulgar, profane or indecent language within the presence or hearing of children, in a loud and boisterous manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor." If you or I went to a park where kids are playing and were using words like "fuck" and "shit" in public conversation we'd get disorderly conduct tickets if the parents called the police. I will ask again. The broadcast airwaves are PUBLIC PROPERTY that has the consent of the governed to be regulated just like any other property of the commons like roads, natural resources, etc. Furthermore, the Miller v. California USSC case granted community standards for obscene speech that may not be protected under 1st amendment. Shouldn't the FCC set standards acceptable for all areas of this country including the more blue nosed communities? The airwaves belong to them too, and clearly the free market will always overlook those areas.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
2. Children learn bad language
Sun Jan 8, 2012, 11:51 PM
Jan 2012

From HOME. As in their parents, or older brothers and sisters. TV should be more for adults than kids anyways. If they are going to be more lax, I hope they go all out after 10 pm. The Daily Show should never have to be edited at 11 pm. Too much shit for kids and not enough for adults. Cable companies should start another tier for adults, where your TV is uncensored all the time. I'm not looking for porn, but it is ridiculous that I can't even hear the word bitch or damn or even hell sometimes without it being censored.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
4. Good point, but if I can't cuss at a public place if kids are present,
Mon Jan 9, 2012, 01:09 AM
Jan 2012

then neither can broadcast TV 6AM-10PM, and the broadcast airwaves (defined as the PUBLIC airwaves) should be owned and operated by We the People (corporations are not people). If the left supports regulation of political content through the Fairness Doctrine why not decency too?

The Daily Show is a cable TV show, but cable channels establish their own standards & practices, and Comedy Central shows many uncensored programs including the Roasts or the 1AM Secret Stash or that South Park episode with 150+ uses of "shit".

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
3. It has nothing to do with morals. It's about control.
Sun Jan 8, 2012, 11:58 PM
Jan 2012

If they cared about children, and about a pure world, they'd stop dropping bombs on people.

I was never so refreshed as when I heard "fuck" on TCM the other night. As though I lived in a truly liberal, free, intelligent society. Not some squelched, phony, dictatorship.

Heywood J

(2,515 posts)
7. I have to agree with this.
Mon Jan 9, 2012, 07:18 PM
Jan 2012

It has nothing to do with children, and everything to do with enforcement of morals on others.

Parents buy games like Grand Theft Auto and CDs bearing the explicit lyrics logo every day for their kids. Play a multiplayer game like Call of Duty online some day: you may be astonished by the number of kids taking headshots at each other or watching the jibs fly as someone explodes, they swear like sailors. Kids use the Internet to discuss who the class slut is or how high they got last night. Latch-key kids have full access to Mom and Dad's DVD collection until they get home from work hours later, not to mention the liquor cabinet, cigarette pack, and more. America has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the western world and our schools have smoke pits outside the front doors. I learned the word fuck and how to use it when I was six years old... from the other six year olds at school in the mid-1980s. All of this, even, says nothing about what they hear from the parents.

But I can't hear Jon Stewart say "shit" or "asshole" at 11:00 at night because it's censored for the next day's re-run and some hypothetical kid, somewhere, might be watching the re-run.

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
8. Also, I've always believed that censorship was about protecting adults from being embarrassed.
Mon Jan 9, 2012, 11:59 PM
Jan 2012

And another thing, as you pointed out, children are not children, but small adults. Hell, I was teaching Staford medical interns how to interpret electrocardiograms when I was 16 years old.

That doesn't mean we don't need an educated and structured society. In fact it's just that very thing that will help us to transcend the muck we tend to stay in if we don't grow and expand.

The conservatives are no doubt pulling back toward the abyss of days gone by. What we need is to grow out of the fear that learning is difficult. We need to make learning enjoyable. Teach everything from art history to Calculus on tv. I've been watching engineering videos to catch up with having abandoned what I learned 20 years ago. It's surprising how little there is. Lots of crap, not much on Newton's laws.

It's as though we want to keep children as children. As if by growing up quickly they'll miss some kind of fun. There is no better fun than mature fun. And by mature I mean educated. High level.

I'll admit that I spent years getting high after graduating from high school. I started out good and went the wrong direction for reasons I'm only now understanding. But what i know now, thanks to the internet, is that there are groups having the most fun I've ever known. A keen kind of fun. The kind that the Daily Show staff must be having in their offices, creating those shows. That kind of fun takes a high level of education. Literacy, political, social.

Well, I've got the world's problems solved right here. I'm probably full of crap. But I think I know how to do it. Censoring is only like the drug war. It will ensure that we go backwards.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
10. Exactly. I'm wondering if children read DU.
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:18 AM
Jan 2012

If so, I have something to say to them:

Shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker tits

Now we can watch the parents blanche and go apeshit.

But really watch the kids. They'll grow up to be just fine. The constant howling and shrieking about how we must protect kids from words has nothing to back it up.

And without anything to back it up, there's nothing to back up this attack on free speech. I'll say it again. It's about censorship and control, not protection, and for that reason, FCC v. Pacifica MUST DIE!

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
9. FCC v. Pacifica is an abomination against the First Amendment THAT MUST FUCKING DIE!
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:15 AM
Jan 2012

Parents who object to naughty words on TV programs, here's your challenge.

Give me one, JUST ONE scientific study that demonstrate conclusively that children sustain some sort of psychological damage from hearing words like "fuck" or "shit" on TV programs.

As far as I can tell, the worst that happens is that the kids hear the words, start snickering, repeat the words, causing the adults to clutch pearls. Then the kids grow up with absolutely no measurable statistical difference in prevalence of mental disorders, educational levels, careers, etc. when compared to kids who were sheltered from George Carlin's horrible words until they were at least teenagers.

Just one study. Show it to me... if you can find one. I don't think you can.

Short of scientifically and statistically valid demonstration of harm to children, there is no justification for this attack on the First Amendment.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
13. Similar to how young people insert "like" as a filler word all the time, young people use cuss words
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:37 AM
Jan 2012

as fillers too. Psychological damage no, intellectual damage yes.

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