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Superman and the NSA (Original Post) Britethorn Jun 2013 OP
So sorry Snowden bores you.. jjewell Jun 2013 #1
How does one rethink a stance that "they are bored"? TheEuclideanOne Jun 2013 #3
So TheEuclideanOne, obviously... jjewell Jun 2013 #4
Actually you did bore me. TheEuclideanOne Jun 2013 #7
I get it-- Americans are too mired in entertainment to care. n/t cprise Jun 2013 #2
Yup Britethorn Jun 2013 #5
And they're in love with the idea... cprise Jun 2013 #6

jjewell

(618 posts)
1. So sorry Snowden bores you..
Wed Jun 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
Jun 2013

and you're right, anybody that thought the NSA wasn't spying on everyone hasn't been paying attention.

However, The Real Story is that these spying programs have never undergone Constitutional review, because they have been operated in secret. Until Snowden released the Verizon Document, NO plaintiff had "standing" in federal court to sue the NSA, because they could not prove they had been spied on by the NSA. The Verizon Document changes everything.

This blatant and obvious violation of the 4th Amendment will now be reviewed in federal court, possibly up to the SCOTUS, to determine it's constitutionality.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." - 4th Amendment

I think you should rethink your stance...

TheEuclideanOne

(2,487 posts)
3. How does one rethink a stance that "they are bored"?
Wed Jun 19, 2013, 08:54 PM
Jun 2013

I think that the violation of the 4th ammendment is pretty well known by anybody who made this possible. It is not as though the politicians that helped define these powers are suddenly going to send out a memo saying. "Urgent!, Urgent! Has anybody checked the 4th ammendment?!? I think that we may have a problem. Where is Bob, dammit!? He was supposed to read through the 4th ammendment to see if there are any conflicts. Now we have to sell off all of these computers. Be more careful next time! How embarrassing"

Obviously it is a violation of the 4th ammendment, but the NSA has been doing this for how many decades now? Decades ago they were doing this with ALL telegraphs. Do you really think that they will suddenly shut down their whole operation? If anything, it is far more likely that they will make the 4th ammendment disappear than the other way around.

Remember, releasing the Verizon document was simply releasing a copy of something that our elected leaders authorized under the Bush administrations. We are just seeing a copy of one company's request that we gave the okay on for the last 7 years.

I am curious to know how much of this post will make it through after the NSA redacts the parts they do not authorize.

jjewell

(618 posts)
4. So TheEuclideanOne, obviously...
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 03:00 AM
Jun 2013

you do not or cannot recognize or realize the import of the Verizon Document. One "rethinks" a stance of boredom by taking another look at the evidence and reconsidering the possible results. To do less leaves one not "bored" but ignorant or apathetic. Or both. Take your choice.

In case you hadn't noticed, besides informing Americans of the EXTENT of the ongoing spying, Snowden provided us with the Verizon Document. You are aware that there have been, in the past, at least 4 plaintiff lawsuits filed and WON against the NSA over it's spying programs, aren't you?

The problem has been, each case has gone to federal court on appeal, and then been thrown out due to plaintiff's lack of "standing", or some other some such technicality, and thus the programs themselves have never been reviewed for their constitutionality. The reason the plaintiff lacked "standing" was because the plaintiff couldn't PROVE he's been spied on by the NSA. And the reason plaintiff couldn't PROVE he'd been spied upon by the NSA, was because the spying orders were SECRET and Classified.

Thanks to Snowden's release of the Verizon Document, plaintiffs now have "standing" to sue the NSA in federal court. Thus the constitutionality of these spy programs will finally be tested, reviewed and adjudicated in federal court, possibly up to and by the SCOTUS.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." - Fourth Amendment

A ruling of unconstitutionality in federal court MAY put an end to this bullshit...

Here is a link to the Verizon Document, which provides plaintiff federal court "standing" for federal lawsuits against the NSA.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

Here is a link to the federal lawsuit filed by the ACLU against the NSA, which uses the Verizon Document as proof of standing, filed a few days ago...

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-files-lawsuit-challenging-constitutionality-nsa-phone-spying-program

You might also want to check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_v._NSA

I hope I didn't bore you...

TheEuclideanOne

(2,487 posts)
7. Actually you did bore me.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 03:52 PM
Jun 2013

To be fair, I took the extra step of rethinking my position and.....still bored.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
6. And they're in love with the idea...
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 12:45 PM
Jun 2013

that average people should step aside to let the "uber" get things done outside the law.

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