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EarlG

(21,942 posts)
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:09 PM Nov 2013

Pic Of The Moment: Intimidation Tactics: Gun Nuts Protect America From Moms Eating Lunch



40 Armed Gun Advocates Intimidate Mothers Against Gun Violence In A Restaurant Parking Lot


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Pic Of The Moment: Intimidation Tactics: Gun Nuts Protect America From Moms Eating Lunch (Original Post) EarlG Nov 2013 OP
Those morons must be really scared of the four moms. Look how pale they are!!! Scuba Nov 2013 #1
And you ask... DirtyDawg Nov 2013 #119
The last gasp of a culture accelerating their own demise. #GunBullies onehandle Nov 2013 #2
All White All Male All Douchebags jpak Nov 2013 #3
I see at least three women in that photo... AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #4
Well, they are all assholes too. jpak Nov 2013 #12
Truer Words titanicdave Nov 2013 #25
course the assholes have their side PatrynXX Nov 2013 #37
Sad, isn't it. Hoyt Nov 2013 #14
I don't see how gender makes it better or worse. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #17
Ug. And two little kids. Those people are fucked up to bring little kids. SunSeeker Nov 2013 #46
if it were a lib ... zbdent Nov 2013 #51
This is way worse than Palin using her baby as a stage prop. SunSeeker Nov 2013 #61
It is just so pathetic. earthside Nov 2013 #5
And they all beat a strategic retreat to the nearby Hooters Restaurant afterwards... freshwest Nov 2013 #10
To recap: It's okay to kick out 25 black people when 1 white person feels threatened... DetlefK Nov 2013 #6
Welcome to America. n/t vaberella Nov 2013 #18
But it looks like the reason for the ejectment had nothing to do with race. happyslug Nov 2013 #65
Taliban Wannabes Snake Plissken Nov 2013 #7
What do you call 32 armed rednecks standing together? armed_and_liberal Nov 2013 #8
Hunkered down SWAT-style to protect themselves from people WITHOUT guns! freshwest Nov 2013 #9
They are actually hunkered down for a group photo. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #11
Fucking douchebags all jpak Nov 2013 #13
I know we've disagreed plenty in the past but AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #20
From the angle the pic that was posted was taken Thav Nov 2013 #24
If you look at the linked photo from the front... AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #26
I don't really think the fact that their muzzles were down eased the moms' minds much. Doctor_J Nov 2013 #41
Overall, I agree. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #50
Oh, for christ's sake.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2013 #63
We don't entirely disagree. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #64
Agree! Originally from Newport...live in Tampa..ugh! nt caledesi Nov 2013 #67
Yes. Thank you. Demoiselle Nov 2013 #93
Open carry is illegal in Texas. Just another example of "law abiding idiots, er, gun owners". nt flamin lib Nov 2013 #30
Error. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #32
This was none of those things. Too bad Dallas SWAT didn't get to show off their awsome toys. nt flamin lib Nov 2013 #53
They are, in fact, holding rifles. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #54
In my opinion, they were brandishing which is specifically forbidden by texas law. flamin lib Nov 2013 #77
Fortuntely, brandishing is a legal term with technical specification. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #78
Ya' jumped my edit. nt flamin lib Nov 2013 #79
Ok, but Texas law also allows it AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #80
Really? Using guns, even long guns, to intimidate, frighten or co-erse flamin lib Nov 2013 #81
No, I meant open carry. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #82
I'll bite. What is the legal bar for brandishing in Texas? nt flamin lib Nov 2013 #83
Here. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #86
picture seems to meet that criteria. flamin lib Nov 2013 #91
They are taking a picture. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #95
But but but...they are LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS! alp227 Nov 2013 #15
Wrong! I doubt they pay taxes... freshwest Nov 2013 #29
Why didn't the moms call the police? Courtesy Flush Nov 2013 #16
Maybe because they have billh58 Nov 2013 #60
+1 Very insightful. I would have not though of that, but you may be right. tofuandbeer Nov 2013 #117
They don't want to risk being banned from restaurants. SunSeeker Nov 2013 #87
the manager did Duckhunter935 Nov 2013 #111
I heard that, but have my doubts. Courtesy Flush Nov 2013 #124
Interesting quakerboy Nov 2013 #127
These idiots... TRoN33 Nov 2013 #19
"The group moved to a nearby Hooters after approximately two hours. " postatomic Nov 2013 #21
This is simply the lamest thing I have seen…if these guys can't see how pathetic.. Tikki Nov 2013 #22
They all look like losers no matter MythosMaster Nov 2013 #122
I wonder what their mothers would think of this? CanonRay Nov 2013 #23
Dude. This was in Texas. Jakes Progress Nov 2013 #35
None of these women has a cell phone to call 911 and the FBI? Demeter Nov 2013 #27
Great question...why didn't they call to report an armed group assembling.....n/t radhika Nov 2013 #90
I would not have called. These nuts would not have forgotten, if I did. meti57b Nov 2013 #123
fucking assholes gopiscrap Nov 2013 #28
I fucking hate bullies genxlib Nov 2013 #31
Indeed. A bully who threatens lethal force IS a terrorist. calimary Nov 2013 #62
Guess we showed them good.. let's go to Hooters! mountain grammy Nov 2013 #33
Is it just Dallas Jakes Progress Nov 2013 #34
and look who gets the publicity oldandhappy Nov 2013 #36
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2013 #38
... cyberswede Nov 2013 #40
..and so…how hard was it to make these losers appear as assholes? Tikki Nov 2013 #44
So you joined billh58 Nov 2013 #47
Uh. Huh. eom uppityperson Nov 2013 #48
The people in the picture and those that support them don't need any help looking like assholes WhollyHeretic Nov 2013 #52
is this legal in Texas? SHRED Nov 2013 #39
It's just as legal billh58 Nov 2013 #45
I would not be amused sulphurdunn Nov 2013 #42
Typical cold-dead-hands billh58 Nov 2013 #43
No joke. The posts about "theatre" and photo op completely miss the point. Of course Hoyt Nov 2013 #106
Apparently, that's how many they thought woud make it zbdent Nov 2013 #49
If the semi automatics are only for target practice upaloopa Nov 2013 #55
Talk about White Male Privilege AZ Progressive Nov 2013 #56
And gun nuts always accuse advocates of gun control of fascism. baldguy Nov 2013 #57
This is a common tactic of Republicans of projection AZ Progressive Nov 2013 #58
The Absurdity That Is America Today cantbeserious Nov 2013 #59
Juanita Jean thinks that this is the wee winkie parade Gothmog Nov 2013 #66
Juanitajean nails it, as usual! mbperrin Nov 2013 #76
I love Juanita Jean! She should be on the DU blog roll. Thanks for giving us that gem. freshwest Nov 2013 #92
What a bunch of chickenshits. GoCubsGo Nov 2013 #68
If the men gathered brandishing weapons had been black or latino... Sylvarose Nov 2013 #69
looks like they are posing for a Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #70
As I said on the other thread... 2naSalit Nov 2013 #71
If I was forming a Militia Unit, these weapons would be confiscated. happyslug Nov 2013 #72
I'm going to totally disagree here. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #96
I am worried about SUPPLY not the actual weapon happyslug Nov 2013 #99
Supply is not currently 'there'. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #104
Do you two actually spend time pondering how to "run a militia group"? Hoyt Nov 2013 #108
It's a viable alternative to the general malarky we have now. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #112
Sorry, AC, sandbagging doesn't require armed losers. Hoyt Nov 2013 #113
Think of it as civil defense. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #115
You two sure spent a lot of effort on rifles and ammo in your fantasy militia Hoyt Nov 2013 #116
They are, but not so much that AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #118
What a bunch of cowards 4dsc Nov 2013 #73
Let me get this straight . . . Major Hogwash Nov 2013 #74
...sicko freaks. SoapBox Nov 2013 #75
This country has shit the bed. RagAss Nov 2013 #84
I don't even think it's a COUNTRY anymore n/t DissidentVoice Nov 2013 #89
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: Bill USA Nov 2013 #85
One of the things that has really disillusioned me about the country I served and was raised to love DissidentVoice Nov 2013 #88
The Dickhead Brigade gtar100 Nov 2013 #94
Toss some Pink Dildos their way zebonaut Nov 2013 #97
''Projections'' DeSwiss Nov 2013 #98
They can be tracked down from the pictures mwrguy Nov 2013 #100
for what Duckhunter935 Nov 2013 #102
Menacing is against the law. So is brandishing a weapon. mwrguy Nov 2013 #105
thats not what Duckhunter935 Nov 2013 #109
Yahoos on militia maneuvers in public. Hoyt Nov 2013 #110
K&R Solly Mack Nov 2013 #101
Lawrence just did a good short on this. oldandhappy Nov 2013 #103
the mouth breathers are just waiting for the word from Rush, Hannity, or Palin to go lynch mob yurbud Nov 2013 #107
Who are the thugs with the guns? Looks kinda like Afghanistan. Beards and all. blkmusclmachine Nov 2013 #114
The Morans with the guns mdbl Nov 2013 #120
Article says 40, picture shows 12 Turbineguy Nov 2013 #121
How dare you say these guys are threatening? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2013 #125
It boils down to these men are DESPERATE to make themselves feel powerful. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #126

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
37. course the assholes have their side
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:01 PM
Nov 2013

and my brothers one of them saying it was just a photo pose for a reporter. everything else is made up. ie they don't have a clue what they did. so I posted the above on facebook and nothing but gun nut laughter back. saying it was a posed photo. well duh it was. what does one call intimidation ?? no brains in how that might look for 2 hours

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
17. I don't see how gender makes it better or worse.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:49 PM
Nov 2013

I think it's a deplorable form of 'protest' either way. Gender makeup of the protesters makes no diff to me.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
46. Ug. And two little kids. Those people are fucked up to bring little kids.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:32 PM
Nov 2013

A group of paranoid gun humpers armed with assault rifles seeking to intimidate 4 women having lunch. Fucked up lesson they're teaching their kids...not to mention endangering them by putting them in a situation that could have easily turned violent. Ignorant assholes.

zbdent

(35,392 posts)
51. if it were a lib ...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:39 PM
Nov 2013

wouldn't the kids have been called "props"?

You know, like those kids who don't understand which end of the crayon goes to the paper holding "pro-life" signs? Oh, wait ... those are "conservatives". They don't use kids as props ...

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
61. This is way worse than Palin using her baby as a stage prop.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:07 PM
Nov 2013

These kids were put in danger.

The restaurant owner thought that situation was so bad that the slightest provocation of these numbnuts--like the police showing up--would set them off to riot. He was too afraid to call the cops.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
5. It is just so pathetic.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:24 PM
Nov 2013

Do these 'guys' have a clue just how silly they look, how silly they are?

When gun radicals get upset over those who question their masculinity because of their obsession with guns, how can they explain the actions of guys so afraid or intimidated by four women that they have to parade around with their 'guns' exposed for all to see?

An incident like this is just about all the proof you need that firearms fetish is a mental complex of some kind.

"The group moved to a nearby Hooters after approximately two hours."
Right. No sexual neurosis here, uh?

(As for the women in the photo, well, there are always enablers and females with empowerment issues, too.)

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
6. To recap: It's okay to kick out 25 black people when 1 white person feels threatened...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:25 PM
Nov 2013

but it's not okay to kick 40 white people off the restaurant parking lot when 4 guests feel threatened.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/24/1233588/-Restaurant-Asks-25-Black-People-to-Leave-Because-1-White-Person-Feels-Threatened

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
65. But it looks like the reason for the ejectment had nothing to do with race.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:37 PM
Nov 2013
A woman contacted Radio Facts who works at the that asked the black patrons to leave. and asked that we allow her to be anonymous. She states there are several reasons the group was asked to leave (below) Radiofacts.com,

You’re only getting one side of story here. I work at the restaurant and your representation of the events is way off base. The group was being loud and obnoxious to both customers and staffers. They kept complaining about their long wait and were talking about how “whitey” was able to get seated, but they were not. The problem was that they had a large group and insisted on sitting next to each other. We only had one area that could accommodate their large group and the patrons in that area were not done. So yes, some “whities” were able to be seated before them, but only because they were going to a different area. We also seated non-whites in other areas too…They made this a racial issue before anything. One of the guests also insulted a deaf white girl because she didn’t respond to one of them telling her to move (she was deaf and didn’t hear them) They were also all standing in the middle of the walk way, making it difficult for customers to leave. We asked them if they could move over, but they said they can stand wherever they want, and if we wanted them out of the way then we should seat them. The customer that was offended was offended by a particular individual’s constant uses of the word “n*gger” When asked to stop, he threw out a long string of racial epithets against one of my co-workers. See the original story here

- See more at: http://www.radiofacts.com/woman-wild-wings-contacts-radio-facts-states-black-patrons-asked-leave-several-reasons/#sthash.PBobwBiP.lkE79uT4.dpuf


http://www.radiofacts.com/woman-wild-wings-contacts-radio-facts-states-black-patrons-asked-leave-several-reasons/

If this woman's report is correct, then the restaurant had the legal right to ask them to leave. While it is illegal NOT to serve someone on the grounds of race, other reasons are still legal. The burden of proof will be on the Store not the people making the accusation but if the store had a good reason NOT to seat them that is sufficient (and in this case that there was only one area of the Restaurant where they could put so many people and the people already in that spot had not yet finished is sufficient if true).

Ownership of the Corporate organization includes Muhsin Muhammad, an African American ex football player:
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120126/PC05/301269947

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
7. Taliban Wannabes
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:26 PM
Nov 2013

if they were ever in a situation where they actually needed a firearm to defend themselves, they would wet their pants like Percy in The green Mile

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
9. Hunkered down SWAT-style to protect themselves from people WITHOUT guns!
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:29 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Just how scary is the sight of UNARMED women to these guys, anyway?

Glad that Hooters welcomed them into their loving bosom to escape that traumatic hostage situation.

The zealots were unaware just who was holding who hostage there. The mind boggles.


AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
11. They are actually hunkered down for a group photo.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:43 PM
Nov 2013

I think these people are being assholes, and doing gun owners a disservice, but you are being fed a narrative with that article, and photo, that is not real. They are facing a camera of their own, for a photo op. Here's a cropped version of it. There exists a larger version, with the guy in red on the end clearly visible, and some people at the other end, but it's smeared with a bunch of bullshit pro-gun propaganda, so I won't post it here.

https://twitter.com/MomsDemand/status/399250250260430849/photo/1

Thav

(946 posts)
24. From the angle the pic that was posted was taken
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:18 PM
Nov 2013

It looks like they're ready to open fire or storm the place.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
26. If you look at the linked photo from the front...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:22 PM
Nov 2013

They are holding up a flag, and lined up for a 2-deep group photo, holding their weapons muzzle-down, fingers indexed properly.


Reminds me of that 'perspective' photo wherein it illustrates how the media can tell multiple narratives by manipulating crop/angle/etc.

On one side, the solider is 'helping', on the other, possibly 'abusing'.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
50. Overall, I agree.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:39 PM
Nov 2013

I think carrying weapons in this manner is one of the problematic aspects of free speech. If people were standing outside a place I was in, armed like that, because of *me*, I'd be worried, even if they aren't actually brandishing in an unlawful manner.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
63. Oh, for christ's sake....
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:13 PM
Nov 2013

This is not a battlefield....

IT'S A FUCKING RESTAURANT PARKING LOT WHERE A BUNCH OF GUN HUMPING ASSHOLES HAVE DECIDED THEY NEED ATTENTION

Shove the "fed the narrative" bullshit. 20 assholes in a parking lot with assault weapons should be rounded up, ID'd, run through NCIC, etc....and I don't give a fuck who doesn't like it.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
64. We don't entirely disagree.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:30 PM
Nov 2013

I think what they are doing is, at the very least, the quickest way to lend ammunition to the very group they intended to protest.

But that doesn't make Freshwest's interpretation of the info as offered by that article, or the context in the article itself, any more accurate. (I fully understand why Freshwest interpreted it that way. I would have as well, sans the context of the front-on group photo.)


Rounded up, I disagree with. Just as I disagree with any heavy handed police response to political speech. Which that qualifies as. That said, if the FBI can decide to keep tabs on PACIFISTS for their anti-war activities, they sure as motherfucking hell ought to be keeping tabs on these folks, if for no other reason than they are NOT pacifists, and they possess MEANS to commit serious injury.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
32. Error.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:50 PM
Nov 2013

In Texas it is legal for rifles for the purposes of: "◾At a political rally, parade or official political meeting", however, the state allows local municipalities to regulate or ban such behavior. (It is an explicit exemption to state pre-emption of local firearms laws.)

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
54. They are, in fact, holding rifles.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:45 PM
Nov 2013

Which is lawful in the state of Texas. Openly. In public. (Actually, not just specifically for political purposes.)

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
77. In my opinion, they were brandishing which is specifically forbidden by texas law.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:28 PM
Nov 2013

'In Texas it is legal for rifles for the purposes of: "◾At a political rally, parade or official political meeting".'

They were doing none of these things so it boils down to brandishing.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
81. Really? Using guns, even long guns, to intimidate, frighten or co-erse
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 06:45 PM
Nov 2013

innocent people is legal in Texas? No, that's brandishing. If you care to quote that "specific legal defination" of brandishing I'll be happy to read it.

BTW, the artical specifically said that the patrons od the restaurant were frightened and intimidated. I don't give a shit avout your 2nd rights, you and these idiots have no right to frighten or intimidate those who don't agree with you. It is against the law.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
82. No, I meant open carry.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:21 PM
Nov 2013

You mentioned OC is illegal, and it is, but only for handguns in that state. Long guns are ok.

I agree with you that people shouldn't be holding guns like this for political purposes. Partially in sensitivity to people who would find that frightening, which I agree with you, people do, even if it doesn't meet the legal bar for brandishing. But also because it is counter productive and harms legit, reasonable, not-asshole gun owners of all political stripes.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
86. Here.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:05 PM
Nov 2013

"Texas Penal Code §42.01(a)(8) prohibits the display of a firearm in a public place in a “manner calculated to alarm.” "

That 'manner calculated to alarm' is informed by case law, meaning court decisions over time. Basically you have to be pointing it at someone, maybe gesture to the weapon while making eye contact, pointing at them, then at the gun, that sort of thing. There has to be a material effort to alarm someone WITH the firearm. Having it on you, by itself isn't sufficient.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
91. picture seems to meet that criteria.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:24 PM
Nov 2013

Guy in red shirt kneeling, rifle in hand. Everybody else facing same direction staring at something, perhaps the restaurant where the women are?

They were clearly tempting to be menacing with their guns.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
95. They are taking a picture.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 10:06 PM
Nov 2013

That was the point of my whole 'suckered' comment. There is a person standing about 30 feet in front of them, taking their picture. I posted a link to an obnoxiously cropped photo.

The guy in the red shirt is holding it barrel down, at best 'low ready', the same way a police officer will carry their AR-15's when they are not actively fixing to shoot someone with it. His finger is well away from the trigger, and he is not pointing it anywhere but the ground.

It has never met the bar of 'menacing' in any court to date, in any state. I agree with you that it is intimidating, though. I would NEVER do that. That's not how you make a political statement. (And it's a good way to defeat yourself politically.)

alp227

(32,015 posts)
15. But but but...they are LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS!
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:47 PM
Nov 2013

They have families, they pay their taxes, they DESERVE as many guns they want ANYWHERE

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
29. Wrong! I doubt they pay taxes...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:37 PM
Nov 2013

Regarding the family issue, we've seen how some of those end up.

And if they have a right to run me out of the public square as if it was their own private property, can I plant one of these in their front yard?



"Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.

Corinthians 10:23

The Idiocracy is growing.

billh58

(6,635 posts)
60. Maybe because they have
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:01 PM
Nov 2013

more class in their little fingers than the entire group of gun hugging cowards who tried to intimidate them. The negative publicity is much more beneficial to the Mothers' cause than a group of good ole boy Texas cop Bubbas would have been.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
87. They don't want to risk being banned from restaurants.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:13 PM
Nov 2013

If it becomes established and foreseeable that their moms meeting result in scary people showing up with guns and police coming, restaurants might not let them meet on their property--disturbance and crowd control issues trump free speech and assembly.

These gun nuts are obviously trying to disrupt these moms' meeting. If the disruption also resulted in other places keeping out their meetings, the gun humpers win.

It reminds me of the situation abortion clinics face. Because of the clinic bombings and protests, many places won't rent to women's clinics that perform abortions.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
111. the manager did
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:37 AM
Nov 2013

Chris Barton, the CFO of Blue Mesa Grill, said that the manager called 911 at 11:35 a.m., shortly after the armed group arrived.

"When the manager called, he told them (the police dispatcher) what was going on," Barton said. "They said that if they are having a peaceful demonstration, they are within their legal rights."

Courtesy Flush

(4,558 posts)
124. I heard that, but have my doubts.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:35 AM
Nov 2013

If they were in the parking lot, they were on private property, and could be ejected for trespassing.

quakerboy

(13,918 posts)
127. Interesting
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:22 PM
Nov 2013

So anytime there is anything I may disagree with, I am within my rights to show up with a bakers dozen of flamboyantly armed people?

I wonder how well that would go over at, say, a Walmart workers protest. Or if I were to head out to one of the oil pipeline protests. Or at one of the many occupy events.

 

TRoN33

(769 posts)
19. These idiots...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 12:58 PM
Nov 2013

Thought they are actually doing the right things. For God's sake, these mothers are terrified yet the manager refused to call police? If it happens anywhere in Northern part of U.S., these gun-toting idiots would be ticketed with civil disobedience and fined!

postatomic

(1,771 posts)
21. "The group moved to a nearby Hooters after approximately two hours. "
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:00 PM
Nov 2013

Our work here is done. Let's all go to Hooters!!!

These gun nu...advocates are pathetic.

USA! USA!

Tikki

(14,556 posts)
22. This is simply the lamest thing I have seen…if these guys can't see how pathetic..
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:01 PM
Nov 2013

they appear…and then there is the danger issue.


Tikki

Jakes Progress

(11,122 posts)
35. Dude. This was in Texas.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:58 PM
Nov 2013

Those cowardly shits were not breaking the law. Texas loves guns. But they hate women.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
27. None of these women has a cell phone to call 911 and the FBI?
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:24 PM
Nov 2013

Or a quarter?

If you are going to take on idiots, you have to be tougher than they think they are.

meti57b

(3,584 posts)
123. I would not have called. These nuts would not have forgotten, if I did.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:14 AM
Nov 2013

I would try to keep low-profile just like these Moms did.

genxlib

(5,524 posts)
31. I fucking hate bullies
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:48 PM
Nov 2013

If there is any justice, next months meeting would have 400 'moms'.

More likely, the meeting will get canceled and the bullies win.

As far as I am concerned, a bully that threatens lethal force is a terrorist. This "my way or violence" mentality is the opposite of the democracy and freedom they claim to want.

calimary

(81,194 posts)
62. Indeed. A bully who threatens lethal force IS a terrorist.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:12 PM
Nov 2013

Domestic terrorists. Using terror and threats of violence to instill fear in the people they know don't agree with them or are against them in some way. ACTIVE and deliberate intentional intimidation. THAT IS TERRORISM. Domestic terrorism in this case.

Jakes Progress

(11,122 posts)
34. Is it just Dallas
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:57 PM
Nov 2013

or are all gun freaks the kind of pigs who threaten four women with assault weapons when they have three dozen of their fat buddies to back them up?

Some really brave Americans there.

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
36. and look who gets the publicity
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:01 PM
Nov 2013

which was the whole idea. Anyone know how to contact the mom? Would love to hear from them.

Response to EarlG (Original post)

billh58

(6,635 posts)
45. It's just as legal
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:32 PM
Nov 2013

as shooting someone in the back for stealing from a neighbor's house, or any of the other gun nut horror stories coming out of Texas.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
42. I would not be amused
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:26 PM
Nov 2013

to encounter two score armed people in a parking lot anywhere, anytime. Sooner or later something very tragic will come from this sort of armed posturing. In Texas, these fools could also have legally carried their toys into the Hooter's bar unless a specific local ordinance (unlikely) prohibited such insanity.

billh58

(6,635 posts)
43. Typical cold-dead-hands
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:30 PM
Nov 2013

"responsible" gun owners. The NRA apologists that are claiming that this is just "theater" overlook the fact that these assholes purposely staged this terroristic demonstration. From the linked article:

"This is not the first time that gun advocates have rallied at MDA events. In March, a group of armed men crashed a MDA gun-control rally in Indianapolis."

And I'm sure that it won't be the last time that a group of gun nuts attempts to intimidate American citizens who peacefully oppose them. It's the gun hugger mentality to believe that a gun makes them "right" -- right-wing assholes would be more accurate.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
106. No joke. The posts about "theatre" and photo op completely miss the point. Of course
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:24 AM
Nov 2013

those posts - - which try to spin these yahoos as innocents - - are made by representatives of our gun love department.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
56. Talk about White Male Privilege
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 02:47 PM
Nov 2013

An example of how white male crime is underreported and how white people let their fellow white people get away with crime. If it was even one black person holding a gun, cops would've been there within a minute or less.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
58. This is a common tactic of Republicans of projection
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:00 PM
Nov 2013

They project their own "sins" on their opponents as a defensive tactic.

Gothmog

(145,086 posts)
66. Juanita Jean thinks that this is the wee winkie parade
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:44 PM
Nov 2013
http://www.juanitajean.com/2013/11/10/oh-look-yall-its-a-wee-winkie-parade/

No, Honey, not like Deliverance. The guys in Deliverance could play the banjo. The only thing these guys can play is stoopid.

Now let me see if I have this right. They are the ones with guns. They are also the ones hiding behind cars. I’m having trouble with computation here. If they have the guns and this is simply a protest, why are the hiding like they are fixing to ambush somedamnthing? Are they buying into David Dewhurst’s idea that tampons are dangerous weapons liable to come at you suddenly?

Good Lord, it’s a bunch of women having a meeting. If that scares you, let me tell you about what happens at a Tupperware Party.


freshwest

(53,661 posts)
92. I love Juanita Jean! She should be on the DU blog roll. Thanks for giving us that gem.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 09:34 PM
Nov 2013

Good golly, Ms. Molly (Ivins), that made my evening.



GoCubsGo

(32,078 posts)
68. What a bunch of chickenshits.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:54 PM
Nov 2013

Nothing but cowardly "tough guys" who have to hide behind guns. None of them would have the guts to do that alone and unarmed.

Sylvarose

(210 posts)
69. If the men gathered brandishing weapons had been black or latino...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 03:58 PM
Nov 2013

...do you think there would have been any delay in calling the police?

2naSalit

(86,515 posts)
71. As I said on the other thread...
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:05 PM
Nov 2013

Several things come to mind all at once.

First, there are at least four individuals crouching.

Second, fuck the restaurant manager, I'd have called the police and told them there was an armed ambush detail threatening me and everyone in the restaurant... or the whole mall, that I was taking cover under a table and the cops better get there ASAP.

Third, they really don't seem to have more than one or two functioning brain cells among them given their positioning... unless they were posing for the picture that was taken.

Lastly, I'd take their picture, walking right past them (after the cops arrived) and call the cops every time I saw one of them following me, better yet, identify them and get restraining orders for every last one of them. If they were dumb enough to continue to intimidate me or my group, I'd sue them all for harassment and terrorist-like intimidation.

I think that people have to start taking this sort of action until it gets to a point that the authorities or courts do something about it. the only way to circumvent an ignorant Congress is to get the judicial branch involved.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
72. If I was forming a Militia Unit, these weapons would be confiscated.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 04:49 PM
Nov 2013

I see at least one AR-15, an AK-47 and a SKS. If they all were set to fire 7.62x39 mm Ammunition, I would keep them together. but while the AK-47 and SKS uses 7.62x39 mm Ammo, the AR-15 uses 5.56x45 Ammunition (Through some AR-15 have been made with 7.62x39 mm Ammunition and AKs have been made with 5.56x45 mm Ammunition, the SKS was only made in 7.62x39 mm Ammunition.

In any military action, you want to minimize your supply problems, and one way is to require as many troops as you can to fire the same Ammunition. In the weapons in this group that is to pick either 7.62x39 ammo or 5.56x45 mm Ammo. Don't have weapons in both caliber not because one is better then another, but just to keep the supply line easier to keep up with the unit (thus the US tendency to give its allies 7.62x39mm Weapons, even while the US uses 5.56x45 ammunition, other then where American Weapons dominate the ex-Soviet 7.62x39 mm dominates and thus it is easier to feed those weapons then to send in new weapons with new ammunition).

Thus the first thing I would do is strip these idiots of they weapons and re issue them one of the three types, depending how which one I can get ammunition for.

Second, none of these weapons have magazines. The Ar-15 and AK47 use detachable magazines, and thus to use them you have to have at least 19 magazines (and most times more). Without the Magazines these weapons are useless.

Now the SKS has a NON-detachable 10 round magazine, thus all you need for it are ammunition on stripper clips. The Military issues a lot of its ammunition with Stripper clips so to rapidly refill magazines. Thus Stripper clips are common when it comes to military ammunition. Without the Stripper clips, even the SKS is nothing better then a 10 shot gun with single shot capacity after those first 10 rounds are fired. With Stripper clips it can load 10 round stripper clips all day long. In many ways the SKS is a better Militia weapon for it does NOT depend on having detachable magazine and can be loaded quickly if speed of loading is required. the AR-15 and AK47 use detachable magazines which must be filled BEFORE put into the weapon. You should NOT store magazines with ammunition in them for it weakens the springs needed for the magazine to feed ammunition to the rifle. Thus when quick loading is needed stripper clips are used even in these two weapons, but to load the Magazines not the weapons themselves. In most Combat situation you know something is up so it is the rule to load detachable magazines when a combat area, but unload when NOT in a combat area.

The final problem with this group is when you are dealing with true leg infantry (which is what most militia will be), the second most important item after a soldiers weapon is his entrenching tool. No entrenching tool, no spade of any type. How can they prepare their positions if they have no entrenching tools? Sorry, in many ways a Spade is a more important weapon is combat today then an assault rifle.

Now, I have seen reports from the march of Baghdad that called the entrenching tool useless in today's "Mobile Combat" but that claim was made in the 1800s and was found to be in error. When both sides of a war are a lot closer in Military capacity then the US and Iraq were in 2002, you get areas where it comes to soldiers on foot against soldiers on foot and in such situations the need to entrench is most important.

First Aid kits are also missing, people get hit in combat and if treated most will survive (especially given modern anti-clotting medications).

Uniforms I am less worried about, people can wear what they want in an emergency situation (Which is when the Militia is generally called into action). Body armor is also less important, through a helmet, even an old fashioned steel helmet, will provide enough protection in most cases (the better the Armor the better protection, but the real big jump in protection was from no armor to some armor during WWI, the same holds true today, some armor is better then no armor, and the best armor provides the best protection, but the real big jump in protection is from no armor to some armor, not from some armor to the best armor for that jump in protection is NOT that much).

This group is a joke, it would have to be reequipped to be any form of actual military threat to anyone. In many ways it is an insult to the Second Amendment for that Amendment does NOT permit people to have guns to intimate other people, but to arm the Militia in times of need. It would be more effective if this group went into the woods without any weapons and did cover and movement drills. In the parking lot, do cover and movement drills (again without weapons). That is Militia in its true military role, not as a bunch of good old boys hanging out together.

Now, if you studied the Militia during the 1700s and 1800s you will quickly see this is NOT the Militia that defeated the French and the Native Americans, instead this is the Sheriff's Patrol which were formed starting in the 1600s to patrol certain intersections and to prevent any slaves from running away. In the South the Sheriff's Patrol was more important then the Militia, through the same people were in both (all white males between 18 and 45). The Sheriff's Patrol were noted for intimidating anyone coming through the intersection they were patrolling. It was a once a month duty, and you ended up with the same friends month after month. It was more a meeting of like thinking people who were told they had the right to beat up anyone who came through that intersection for any reason they saw fit. The Assumption was honest people traveled during the day.

With the abolishment of Slavery the Sheriff's Patrol ended, but it survived both in the natural of the first KKK and in that it was where local males would meet and talk with their friends. The Sheriff's patrol was when most southern males socialized prior to the Civil War, and similar groups reformed after the Civil War and ended up doing what the Sheriff's Patrol did before the Civil War. It was a social meeting, little of no military training took place for it was a social meeting not a training meeting. In the North the Militia did little Sheriff's patrol (few slaves) but did no actual military training. Thus in the Revolution the New England Militia was considered as good as any regular force, while the Southern Militia was considered worse then useless.

I bring up the Sheriff's patrol for when I started to write this thread, I wanted to concentrate on the weapons and how that made this group a joke as a militia unit, but as I went on it became clear it was more like a meeting of men assigned to do a Sheriff's Patrol rather then train as a true military unit. It became clear this group is more like the Useless Southern Militia of the Revolution rather then the effective New England Militia. It is a group of people getting together to intimidate others, that is what the Northern Militia of the Revolution never did, but it was what the Sheriff's Patrol element of the Southern Militia saw as its main job.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
96. I'm going to totally disagree here.
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 10:25 PM
Nov 2013

First, on weapon selection. I'm ok with fixed internal mags, or en bloc clips. So cancel the civilian marksmanship program, crack open Ogden arsenal, and issue all those US M1917 Enfields, and Garands.

Now, doctrine: 7.62x51mm is perfect for a militia/state guard. They won't be invading anywhere. So carrying all that heavy assed ammo is no problem. You'd be defending cities, towns, bridges, dams, etc. So the increased range and punching power of the venerable .30-06 Springfield is perfect, over the wimpy popcorn fart of the .223

So, if I was going to have state-issued, regulated, and trained home guard/state guard separate from the State National Guard (as every state has provisions for a state guard, even if they don't actually use it) that's the rifle/ammo I'd select.


I agree, on the trenching tool. In fact, the most common use for a state guard should be sandbagging for flood control, and search/rescue type stuff.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
99. I am worried about SUPPLY not the actual weapon
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 11:20 PM
Nov 2013

Troops, even Militia troops eat up ammunition, thus re-supply is important. My selection of weapons had little to do with effectiveness of each weapon, but re-supplying them with ammunition. If the supply line can only produce arrows, I would be advocating arming the Militia with bows.

My "Selection" of weapon had to do with re-supply not the effectiveness of the weapons. I would opt to minimize re-supply and the SKS is cheap and effective. I would also lean to the 1898 Mauser, if the only ammunition I could get was for it.

My comments on the weapons is that crew is a Supply Officer nightmare. How do you keep them supplies with Ammunition. In the 1792 Militia Act Congress said the Militia will be armed with 69 Caliber muskets, for the same reason I push for one weapon, to ease supply.

Now, I did go on a tangent saying the SKS may be an better option then the AR-15 or AK47, but again do to the need to replace magazines in the later two weapons, something NOT needed with the SKS (I thought I had covered enough to state the weapon was important, the ability to re-supply the weapon is more important. I just mentioned the SKS and stripper clips for it was a way to arm a Militia and use just one weapon and at the least cost (19 or more detachable magazines per weapon can add up and sooner or later you have to consider the costs of any weapon and its needs for spare parts including spare magazines).

As one old soldier told me years ago, four men with bolt action rifles that fire at 14 rounds per minute can out shoot one man with a M-16 and his 40 rounds a minute and the key to combat is to get the most round fire effectively down range, not to have the fastest shooting weapon. Militia tend to out number regular troops engaging them, the key is making sure the Militia get the most effective fire down range, not to have the best weapon money can buy.

AS to actual weapons, I also liked the Soviet/Russian Doctrine of having at least one man per platoon armed with a full caliber rifle (he was also the third in command and lead the platoon in moving into combat). Please note the Soviet/Russian Platoon is much smaller the a US Platoon, while larger then a US Squad. In all armies (Both Western and ex-Soviet) The Platoon also had Machine Guns but they followed the Platoon, not lead it (if you look at US doctrine, the same policy applies, Machine Guns FOLLOW the troops, it does not lead).

Since the 1990s Western Armies have adopted the Russian/Soviet Policy of a designated marksmen but at the Squad level not the Platoon level. The US Army wants to but also wants to have all of the ammunition below Platoon level be 5.56mm only (thus the Army had adopted a "Designated Marksmen" rifle in 5.56mm, while the Marines and other who have adopted the doctrine tend to use 7.62x51mm Rifles (Till 2012 modified versions of the M14, since 2012 the SR-25/M110 of more below).

The US Army's policy of using the 5.56x45 seems to have gone away, it seems even the US Army is using the M14 at the present time (and is in the process of replacing it with a 7.62x51 mm modernized AR-10 called the SR-25 and designated the M110 by the US Army)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

M110:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-25

While the 7.62x51 has longer range then any of the ammunition I mentioned before, it adds another type of ammunition to the supply system. This is why the US Army tried NOT to adopt it, and why Militias, if I was forming one, should avoid it, unless you have a secure supply line of 7.62x51mm Ammunition.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
104. Supply is not currently 'there'.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:23 AM
Nov 2013

If you wanted to arm 50 million Americans with 200 rounds of .223 or 7.62x51, you'd be waiting a while. If you wanted to do the same with 30.06, you could buy billions of rounds of US surplus back from various nations in Europe, Garands back from Korea, the Dutch, you name it. That ammo is still good, I use it all the time.

I liked your logic of the stripper clips, actually. That fits with the sort of duty a national militia would perform: static defense of existing sites. Nobody is going to pack up a state guard, and send it off to Iraq. You want stuff that is here, or readily made here.

Show me a handloader that doesn't have dies for 30-06? An old hunter that doesn't have a case or two of it.

I chose it because supplies are easy; weapons readily available, parts available, ammo available. Much of it already 'in the field'. Tons importable. None of it would compete with existing weapons procurement via the DOD.


Nobody wants to spend the budget to equip a state guard/militia with top shelf weapons, it is unnecessary to their purpose.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
108. Do you two actually spend time pondering how to "run a militia group"?
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:34 AM
Nov 2013

I think you guys might have forgotten where you are posting.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
112. It's a viable alternative to the general malarky we have now.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:49 AM
Nov 2013

For instance, I have pestered my governor on multiple occasions to call up the militia for sandbagging duties during flood season. Let's see if 'well regulated militia' means anything at all anymore.

The threat need not be 70's era commies parachuting into the heartland. Let's start with something simple. See if the 'milita' still exists at all.

If so, how can it be regulated. Meaning, equipped, functional, trained. That sort of training can go a long way to preventing accidental firearm injuries, etc.

I would think it would fit nicely with some of your ideas on gun control, actually. If the militia no longer exists at all, perhaps it's time to re-visit the 2nd amendment.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
113. Sorry, AC, sandbagging doesn't require armed losers.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 01:00 AM
Nov 2013

I think promoting guns is bad enough, but promoting the kind of militias you are talking about really doesn't seem to fit the DU model.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
116. You two sure spent a lot of effort on rifles and ammo in your fantasy militia
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 01:38 AM
Nov 2013

discussion if gunz aren't important to you (of course, anyone who has been paying attention knows that gunz mean a lot to you).

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
118. They are, but not so much that
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 02:07 AM
Nov 2013

I am not willing to test some theories. Like whether registration can work, or whether a militia is a possible thing.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
74. Let me get this straight . . .
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 05:41 PM
Nov 2013

40+ armed men, and some women, openly brandishing firearms suddenly congregate in the parking lot outside of his restaurant -- for no apparent logical reason under the sun -- and the manager refused to call the police?!?

What, is he a frickin' idiot??

He should be fired and replaced immediately!

Seriously, he must be a special kind of moron to think this sort of thing was normal.
This is a form of domestic terrorism.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
85. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child:
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 07:54 PM
Nov 2013

... but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Unfortunately, there are those who refuse to grow up.






[font size="4"]"no big kids are gonna push me around"[/font]



RECOMMENDED.
BOOKMARKED.

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
88. One of the things that has really disillusioned me about the country I served and was raised to love
Mon Nov 11, 2013, 08:26 PM
Nov 2013

...is the worship of guns.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
102. for what
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:10 AM
Nov 2013

not breaking any laws? The police were called and refused to do anything as no laws were being broken.

mwrguy

(3,245 posts)
105. Menacing is against the law. So is brandishing a weapon.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:24 AM
Nov 2013

If the local cops are too corrupt to help then they should be federally prosecuted for trying to deprive the women of their rights.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
109. thats not what
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:34 AM
Nov 2013

the police officers on scene decided.

Police monitored the incident at the Blue Mesa Grill in Arlington, Texas, but took no action because it is legal to carry long guns openly in Texas.

"We are aware that a group did gather in a shopping area in Arlington Saturday," Tiara Ellis Richard of the Arlington Police office of communication said in an e-mail to USA TODAY. "Officers were notified and arrived at the location. There were no issues that we are aware of, and no arrests occurred."

One of four women who were meeting Saturday tried to file a police complaint on Monday but failed because she was told that no law had been violated, a spokeswoman for Moms Demand Action for Gun


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/11/moms-demand-action-open-carry-texas-guns-rifles/3497895/

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
103. Lawrence just did a good short on this.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:20 AM
Nov 2013

He had one of the moms on. I am glad. Was put off by the guns getting all the publicity. The moms should have their say. And the bully folk still had their day. Their photo is on all their frig doors!

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
107. the mouth breathers are just waiting for the word from Rush, Hannity, or Palin to go lynch mob
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 12:26 AM
Nov 2013

on the rest of us.

mdbl

(4,973 posts)
120. The Morans with the guns
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 07:10 AM
Nov 2013

probably think the movie "Idiocracy" is a documentary about our country because they look like they are right out of the movie. I keep waiting to hear them yell "is she puttin' out?"

Turbineguy

(37,313 posts)
121. Article says 40, picture shows 12
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 08:18 AM
Nov 2013

does that mean the other 28 are in the Koch bus comparing the smallness of their manly bits?

Or perhaps that ordinary American gun nuts need to have an armed-man-to-unarmed-woman ratio of 10:1 but in Texas, they only need a ratio of 3:1?

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
126. It boils down to these men are DESPERATE to make themselves feel powerful.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 05:39 PM
Nov 2013

Deep inside they know they are losers and so they are looking for a way to project power and control so they can feel better about themselves. They are utterly pathetic.

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