Arkansas Mother Obliterates Common Core in 4 Minutes!

[Jefferson23]

[zazen]

1. k&r; this is a grotesquely wasteful neoliberal "reform" that's harming our children n/t

[progressoid]

2. Rec!

[zeemike]

3. Wow.

She schooled them...good for her.

[Plucketeer]

4. Sadly...

we have damned few legislators who are anywhere NEAR as articulate or perceptive as this mom is!

[truedelphi]

5. Thank you for bringing some valuable attention to this totally

Important issue.

I was going to bring forth a similar video, but since there are "R"'s out there opposing this, I just figured I'd hear once again how I am showing my "R" roots.

[SunSeeker]

6. She just describes a math problem, and incorrectly claims there's only one correct answer process.

One of the math examples she gave to board members during the meeting, was this: A class has 18 students. If the class counts around by a number and ends up with 90, what number did they count by?

You could divide 90 by 18 and get the number 5, but Lamoreaux says to get the problem right, students must draw out 18 circles, representing the students, and mark each circle until they reach 90. There would be 5 marks in each circle, which would be the correct answer.

Lameroux says student must do more than 100 steps to get that problem right.

But folks with the Board of Education say that's not the case and they're just teaching children different ways to solve the same problems.

Dr. Megan Witonski, Asst. Commissioner of Learning Services, said, "We want children to be able to think in multiple ways, yes that is one way you can answer the problem, there may be another way you can have the same answer with the same result and still work with that same problem."

Dr. Witonski says Common Core prepares students for life in the real world.

http://www.arkansasmatters.com/story/common-core-both-sides-of-the-debate/d/story/mSy1mEzVzUC44SAyqNO0hQ

Lameroux has become quite the right wing media darling, appearing on Glenn Beck's show and having her video go viral on right wing sites. A lot of right wingers hate Common Core because they hate anything the Obama administration endorses. There may or may not be problems with Common Core, but this video is not a reasoned critique of Common Core.

[Jefferson23]

10. Right wing, I see. The concepts she highlights that are being taught, do they make sense to you?

The NEA, they represent the right wing to you? They are back peddling on their earlier support.

NEA Blasts Implementation of "Common Core" Standards

http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/education/item/17674-nea-blasts-implementation-of-common-core-standards

Do you believe people who are conservatives do not know how to acknowledge a bad program? It is their
children who are the recipients of this fraud.

snip* In an unusual statement, 132 Catholic scholars wrote a statement highly critical of the Common Core, which they sent to every bishop in the nation. They urged the bishops not to adopt Common Core in Catholic schools and to withdraw it where it had been adopted. They conclude that the Common Core standards are designed as standardized workforce training, doing nothing to shape and inspire the hearts and minds of children.

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/11/11/catholic-scholars-blast-common-core/

[SunSeeker]

11. She just describes a math problem, and incorrectly claims there's only one correct answer process.

If she had correctly described the problem, then yes, it would not make sense. But she did not correctly describe the problem. We need honest critiques, not right wingers hyperventilating on video.

[Jefferson23]

12. She was dishonest about how the children would be marked incorrect if they did not pick the

answer as she stated? Is that your claim?

There is more than ample evidence this approach is unsustainable as an education tool.

To lump it as a right winged smear would be a mistake.

[SunSeeker]

14. Yes, she was dishonest. Just like the right wing link you gave was regarding the NEA position.

The New American? Really? The same site that peddles climate change denial?

If you want to know the NEA's position on Common Core, you need only go to the NEA site:

http://www.nea.org/home/56614.htm

[Jefferson23]

17. Yes, the New American stated their position, what did they get wrong?

The NEA is back peddling, just as I said earlier..why are they doing that?
Your link: NEA President: We Need a Course Correction on Common Core

The Mom in the video lied about how the children were marked incorrect? You have evidence
of that?

You seem to be chastising them for being correct about a serious problem. If we do not
take the problem seriously, for one..the Common Core is disastrous and it is unethical to
support it. Two, it will be used against us in 2014 elections.

[SunSeeker]

21. The NEA does not oppose Common Core. The Mom lied about there being only one correct process.

The NEA is not "backpedalling." NEA's site says of Common Core:

NEA believes the Common Core State Standards have the potential to provide access to a complete and challenging education for all children. Broad range cooperation in developing these voluntary standards provides educators with more manageable curriculum goals and greater opportunities to use their professional judgment in ways that promote student success.

http://www.nea.org/home/56614.htm

Not sure what "course correction" you are talking about. You offer no links, and it is not on the page I cite.

I am not "chastising them for being correct about a serious problem." I am pointing out they are being dishonest. Neither the Mom nor that disgusting right wing site you are bringing clicks to is correct. The educators contradicted what the mom was saying. I gave you links, and full quotes. Where is YOUR evidence that this math problem she describes has only one right process?

I have a kid in public school. I do take this seriously. That is why I want an honest discussion of it.

[Jefferson23]

23. Then you did not read your own link which I stated I used in my previous post to you:

NEA President: We Need a Course Correction on Common Core

During my 23 years as a high school math teacher, I learned some important lessons. One of the most important was that effective teaching and learning required me at times to be the teacher and at other times, the student. I listened closely to my students because they were the ones who told me what was working and what wasn’t. I don’t believe I am any different than any other NEA member—we all want the best for every student in our classrooms and schools.

So when 45 states adopted the Common Core State Standards (CCSS), we as educators saw the wonderful potential of these standards to correct many of the inequities in our education system that currently exist. Educators embraced the promise of providing equal access to high standards for all students, regardless of their zip code or family background.

We believed the standards would help students develop the critical thinking and problem-solving skills they need to succeed in the fast-changing world. NEA members overwhelmingly supported the goals of the standards because we knew they could provide a better path forward for each and every student. The promise of these high standards for all students is extraordinary. And we owe it to our students to fulfill that promise.

As educators, we also had high hopes that our policymakers would make an equal commitment to implement the standards correctly by providing students, educators, and schools with the time, supports, and resources that are absolutely crucial in order to make changes of this magnitude to our education system.

So over the last few months I have done what my students and fellow educators have taught me: I have been listening closely. I have joined our state leaders in member listening sessions around the country, observed dozens of member focus groups, and invited hundreds of thousands of NEA members to share their views about how CCSS implementation is going.

I am sure it won’t come as a surprise to hear that in far too many states, implementation has been completely botched. Seven of ten teachers believe that implementation of the standards is going poorly in their schools. Worse yet, teachers report that there has been little to no attempt to allow educators to share what’s needed to get CCSS implementation right. In fact, two thirds of all teachers report that they have not even been asked how to implement these new standards in their classrooms.

http://neatoday.org/2014/02/19/nea-president-we-need-a-course-correction-on-common-core/

[SunSeeker]

25. That was not at my link, and does not evidence opposition to Common Core.

It just talks about the how teachers should have a greater voice in how Common Core is implemented, not that it should not be implemented.

But hey, thanks for finally providing a non-right-wing link. Right wing links are a great way to get a computer virus, and every time you click on one, it supports that link (clicks allow them to sell ads!) and the right wing agenda of that link.

I think the greatest threat to public schools right now is the move to charter schools, which the right wing is all for.

[Jefferson23]

27. It is at your link, on the left hand side column. If you do not listen to your oppostion you will

never know if they are correct or not. They have a right to complain about it, it is an issue for
their children which they recognize.

Not all Republicans are dumb religious fundies, 9% of the Republican party voted for Obama in 2008.

There is more evidence, collectively, which you have not commented on in this thread that does
not support the Common Core. I have yet to see evidence the Mom in the video lied about
how those work sheets were scored. I would say, is it possible she has an agenda for political reasons?
Quite possibly, but that does not change the problem, which is, do we support an educational wrong
because we own it? I would hope we recognize it for what it is and remove it..listen to the teachers
and other professionals on this topic. Aside from it being bad policy, it will hurt us in elections the longer
Democrats support it.

There are issues that transcend party affiliation, and if you think educated Republicans do not
appreciate the differences and do not have the ability to recognize bad policy, and imagine they're
not invested in their children's education, you are sadly mistaken.


If you really believe the OP by the NEA is not back peddling on Common Core, I can't help you.

Charter schools are a very big problem and so is Common Core.

You are aware of Arnie Duncan and Charter Schools?

http://www.ed.gov/news/speeches/charter-mindset-shift-conflict-co-conspirators

[SunSeeker]

78. It is you who will not listen.

You offer no evidence supporting what Lameroux says, and it is your OP. You say there is no evidence that Lameroux is incorrect, but I gave it to you already. As I pointed out up the thread:

Lameroux says student must do more than 100 steps to get that problem right.

But folks with the Board of Education say that's not the case and they're just teaching children different ways to solve the same problems.

Dr. Megan Witonski, Asst. Commissioner of Learning Services, said, "We want children to be able to think in multiple ways, yes that is one way you can answer the problem, there may be another way you can have the same answer with the same result and still work with that same problem."

Dr. Witonski says Common Core prepares students for life in the real world.

http://www.arkansasmatters.com/story/common-core-both-sides-of-the-debate/d/story/mSy1mEzVzUC44SAyqNO0hQ

I'm not saying there are no problems with Common Core, I just think your OP is pushing a right wing meme that is dishonest. But whatever the issues with Common Core, they pale in comparison to what Charter Schools, and draining money from public education in general, is doing to our schools. If you want to do an OP on Charter Schools, go for it.

[Jefferson23]

79. Do you not understand that her concern is the inefficency and bizarre manner in which the math

is presented? The state board is saying they are just teaching children different ways to solve
a problem..did the state dispute her claim as to the efficacy of the approach? No.


A right winged meme, as opposed to Charter schools? I had hoped that people would consider the
serious issues with Common Core and realize that this is being rejected by those on the right, left and middle..
there are concerns across the entire political spectrum.

If you wish to confine it the narrow field of right wing, that certainly is your choice. Yet the problems
are far reaching, we are talking about a potentially disastrous approach to education and a political
liability for Democrats. Common Core will be compromising for special ed students too.

Look at its roots:

snip*The Biggest Fallacy of the Common Core Standards
Boosters of the Common Core national standards have acclaimed them as the most revolutionary advance in the history of American education.

As a historian of American education, I do not agree.

Forty-five states have adopted the Common Core national standards, and they are being implemented this year.

Why did 45 states agree to do this? Because the Obama administration had $4.35 billion of Race to the Top federal funds, and states had to adopt "college-and-career ready standards" if they wanted to be eligible to compete for those funds. Some states, like Massachusetts, dropped their own well-tested and successful standards and replaced them with the Common Core, in order to win millions in new federal funds.

Is this a good development or not?

If you listen to the promoters of the Common Core standards, you will hear them say that the Common Core is absolutely necessary to prepare students for careers and college.

They say, if we don't have the Common Core, students won't be college-ready or career-ready.

Major corporations have published full-page advertisements in the New York Times and paid for television commercials, warning that our economy will be in serious trouble unless every school and every district and every state adopts the Common Core standards.

A report from the Council on Foreign Relations last year (chaired by Joel Klein and Condoleeza Rice) warned that our national security was at risk unless we adopt the Common Core standards.

The Common Core standards, its boosters insist, are all that stand between us and economic and military catastrophe.

All of this is simply nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/common-core-fallacy_b_3809159.html

[SunSeeker]

97. Yes, I understand the Mom in the video doesn't understand the technique.

I don't really understand it either. But my kid does. And he is blossoming in math, way better than I ever did. It has made him love math. See my post no. 96 in this thread.

[Jefferson23]

98. I am genuinely happy to hear that your son is thriving.

That is, after all, the goal.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the efficacy of CC as it stands now.

Stay well.

[BlueState]

15. If there is "more than ample evidence..."

then please post it. This video is, in fact, right wing smear. It is inaccurate and dishonest.

You may be right but this video doesn't show it!

[Jefferson23]

18. Certainly:

Archive for the ‘teachers against common core’


Archive for the ‘teachers against common core’ Tag
UT High School Physics Teacher Resigns Over Common Core Leave a comment

Utahns Against Common Core published the resignation letter of Utah high school physics teacher Stuart Harper today. The letter is powerful. These are the words of a noble man, and his resignation is a tragic loss to Utah’s school system.

When will our state leaders acknowledge the train wreck of Common Core and turn our state around? When will they read and heed teachers like Stuart Harper?

Read the full letter here.
http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/tag/teachers-against-common-core/


snip* In an unusual statement, 132 Catholic scholars wrote a statement highly critical of the Common Core, which they sent to every bishop in the nation. They urged the bishops not to adopt Common Core in Catholic schools and to withdraw it where it had been adopted. They conclude that the Common Core standards are designed as standardized workforce training, doing nothing to shape and inspire the hearts and minds of children.

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/11/11/catholic-scholars-blast-common-core/

[alp227]

80. Just an advisory, "New American" is a John Birch Society website.

Yes, John Birch Society still lives.

[Jefferson23]

84. Yes, alp, they are right wing and they are voicing along with educators on the left and those

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 09:12 AM - Edit history (1)

in the center about Common Core. The concerns are real, and will those on the right use it as an
agenda for political purposes? Most likely, yes, and they have legitimate concerns.

The Mom in the video gives one example of the frustrations children find with this approach,
not to suggest this is the only example of the problems found in Common Core.

One irony, but not an exclusive one, rests in the history of the Common Core agenda.
This is a thorny problem, most important, we have a nation ready to adopt standards
that are questionable at best, and a negative reaction to it across the political spectrum
which can very well hurt Democrats in the short term as well as the long term ( general election ).


The Biggest Fallacy of the Common Core Standards
Posted: 08/24/2013

Boosters of the Common Core national standards have acclaimed them as the most revolutionary advance in the history of American education.

As a historian of American education, I do not agree.

Forty-five states have adopted the Common Core national standards, and they are being implemented this year.

Why did 45 states agree to do this? Because the Obama administration had $4.35 billion of Race to the Top federal funds, and states had to adopt "college-and-career ready standards" if they wanted to be eligible to compete for those funds. Some states, like Massachusetts, dropped their own well-tested and successful standards and replaced them with the Common Core, in order to win millions in new federal funds.

Is this a good development or not?

If you listen to the promoters of the Common Core standards, you will hear them say that the Common Core is absolutely necessary to prepare students for careers and college.

They say, if we don't have the Common Core, students won't be college-ready or career-ready.

Major corporations have published full-page advertisements in the New York Times and paid for television commercials, warning that our economy will be in serious trouble unless every school and every district and every state adopts the Common Core standards.

A report from the Council on Foreign Relations last year (chaired by Joel Klein and Condoleeza Rice) warned that our national security was at risk unless we adopt the Common Core standards.

The Common Core standards, its boosters insist, are all that stand between us and economic and military catastrophe.

All of this is simply nonsense.

How does anyone know that the Common Core standards will prepare everyone for college and careers since they are now being adopted for the very first time?

How can anyone predict that they will do what their boosters claim?

There is no evidence for any of these claims.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/common-core-fallacy_b_3809159.html

[LiberalArkie]

13. Everyone knows that it is better to count on fingers than use math.

Counting the marks in the circles is the same thing as counting fingers.

Let's see, the old method of learning how to solve with math and algebraic equations enabled us to put people on the moon with slide rules.
I figure the new method will enable the kids to be able to punch the pretty pictures on a MacDonalds cash register. And with it the answer on the test doesn't matter as much as the steps do.

[rocktivity]

16. It's the math problem that's the problem.

Last edited Tue Apr 1, 2014, 12:23 AM - Edit history (5)

I barely understood it -- and Common Core considers counting around a room and dividing by eighteen "everyday" situations?

In all fairness, Lameroux did say that only the students who got it wrong would have to draw the eighteen circles, and she told the panel to get their pencils out -- even she didn't expect adults to know the 18-times table.

But if simply asking "What is ninety divided by five?" isn't "educational" enough, what about a REAL real life situation a fourth grader can relate to, like "A class raised ninety dollars for their field trip by selling boxes of candy. Each box of candy cost five dollars. How many boxes of candy did the class sell?"


rocktivity

[valerief]

70. I never even heard the term "counts around" before this thread. nt

[erpowers]

103. Same Here

I had never the term before this seeing this video.

[cannondale]

82. Agreed, SunSeeker

A couple of comments regarding this one example that may have been given by a particular teacher (which could have been given well before Common Core.)

The "Hey, just take the larger number and divide by the smaller number" is EXACTLY what we need to get away from especially in early years. Too many students simply going through the motions, too many non-thinkers for the future.

Most of the Common Core example are taken from some teacher's slide show or handout, and are not necessarily the "official" example. But the ones I have seen are really quite educational. How many people have thought about a problem differently and gained some additional insight? Most of those who oppose CC are math drones with no ability to walk around the problem and see other ways to solve -- i.e., the better way to work with math.

So I see that people are against a list of items students really should cover on their way through the school system. I guess It's back to random teaching of some parts of some books, and using only the SAT to see where they really stand when it's too late?

I'm not for the proliferation of tests, but the subject is Common Core. I may be the only person on this message board to have read the entire list of science common cores, and it's not a bad list.

[SunSeeker]

96. Thank you. My son is actually being taught math with these techniques.

He is in a public elementary school here in California that is embracing these techniques, at least with regard to math as far as I know, and they have some of the highest test scores in the state. I was taught by the rote memorization method and so these new methods seem confusing to me. But my kid totally gets them. He knows his times tables, but he also knows how to solve problems--way better than I did at his age...maybe even now. Plus he loves it.

His school's principal gets teachers' input and treats them like the professionals they are. Each grade's teachers get together as a team and develop lesson plans for that grade. It is utterly sensible, and amazingly successful.

I suspect Common Core is like the ACA. If a state embraces it and wants to make it work, it is an incredibly beneficial system. If not, and it is starved of resources for implementation, it is just seen as another bureaucratic burden.

[DeSwiss]

7. It's as if they wanted the children dumbed-down.

- Isn't it?

K&R

''Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.'' ~Sherlock Holmes

[idendoit]

39. You quote a fictional character to try to make your point.

The words Doyle used are actually based on a scientific maxim: Occam's razor which states "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." Which is exactly how the woman in the video is trying to make her point, which fails. Irony abounds.

[DeSwiss]

41. I quoted a fictional character.

- Because this is all an illusion. What, you thought it was real? Ha!

We're making this shit up as we go.

[idendoit]

44. In the future I'll be sure to dismiss what you say....

...as fictional.

[DeSwiss]

46. No need.

I've already taken care of it. You're now on Ignore.

[idendoit]

47. *sticks fingers in ears*

Goes: La,la,la,la.....

[SunSeeker]

99. LOL

[BlueState]

8. She doesn't even come close to obliterating anything!

This is just more dishonest propaganda.

It is a simply a lie that the old methods such as long division etc. are being eliminated. What she describes is with the hatch marks etc. is an exercise in understang the problem, not a methodology of soving the problem. These examples are used alongside traditional mathematics instruction.

I think when she posed the problem to the room and there was silence, with after a lapse of time, only one singer person getting the answer, proves the need for a new approach. The problem is not that no one could do the division, but that the don't understand that the question being asked is a division problem. We are faced with problems like this in our daily lives, personal and professional, all the time. You need more than to be able to do the math, you need to know how to apply it.

This is good way of teaching. While there might be reasons to be against common core, this isn't it and the criticism, to me just looks ignorant.

[jtuck004]

26. The problem is not that no one could do the division, but that the don't understand that

the question being asked is a division problem.
______________

That's really the key point. They need tools and need to know when to use them, to recognize what kind of problem they have.

Though from what I've seen and read of Common Core it won't help that either, too much proscription. I think the adults who are telling everyone what to do in this are going to drag American kids behind until they cut themselves loose from it, but the rest of the world will go on. Then again, that's what I think about most public indoctrination, not just this pogrom.

A.S. Neill and Summerhill showed us one way, there are others.

But I liked her speech, though she needs to speed up a couple of her "emphasis" slowdowns. One can go back and do some research, but I bet she gained some more supporters that night, and perhaps influenced that board.

[DeSwiss]

43. ....

[BlueState]

63. How original.

[A Simple Game]

88. I am far from a mathematician but this doesn't seem like a division problem to me.

First off the word count in the problem implies addition not division. This seems to me to be a problem in addition. But the addition would be a trial and error type of process which seems to be how they were expected to answer by using the circles and hashmarks. For a check you could use division so I see your calling this a division problem. But to me as stated the problem calls for addition to get the answer. Would I use division? Yes if I didn't need to show my work. This method also rules out the use of a calculator. The woman was right when she said you would be marked wrong, because you would be wrong if you used division.

This woman says she had 12 years of college, how much math did she take, were any of the math courses in binary, hex and/or oct? Adding, subtracting, multiplication, and division are very different in the systems other than decimal. They were difficult for me to learn and I never got enough practice at any of them to be proficient with them.

Now to my very serious questions, how does the common core approach work across the different number systems? All the examples I have seen, which aren't very many, are for the decimal system. Does it work well for binary, Hex, Oct? Is that the common part in common core? Kids now need to know many more number systems today than we needed a few years ago, will this approach help them for the other number systems?

[Gore1FL]

9. I missed the part where she obliterated anything.

She mostly ranted about one process of many that allows children to better understand math. I fail to see why that is a problem.

[Jefferson23]

19. The Biggest Fallacy of the Common Core Standards

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/common-core-fallacy_b_3809159.html

[BlueState]

20. You should have posted that in the first place

Ravitch makes some interesting and intelligent points. The woman in the video does not.

[Jefferson23]

22. BlueState, the woman in the video is a Mom, and it does not matter whether she is a Republican

or a Democrat. She may have her own agenda, I don't know. But the fact remains that
we should not look away from this issue, regardless. I have yet to see evidence she
lied regarding how the students are corrected on that work sheet.

Most people rely on public education for their children, if we do not address this we
will be negligent of our duty to all children in the US and it will be used against us
in the coming elections.

[BlueState]

24. It does matter that she is lying

and illogical. She lies when she states that division is no longer taught in the traditional way. She lies when she says this
is taught as methodology in problem solving.

It does not help your cause to put forward this kind of nonsense.

The methods that she describes are valid forms of math instruction. That is what annoys me. The way the problem is corrected
is because the question asked is not, what is the answer. The question being asked is, demonstrate why this is the correct
answer. This is a valid and important thing to know and it is a lie, and a dangerous one, to pretend that isn't.

This part of common core, the understanding of advanced math concepts at an early age, is something I feel very strongly
is valid and necessary. Neither she nor you really understand this.

[Jefferson23]

29. She is not lying, she has a disagreement, clearly. If this approach, Common Core, is

broadening the students intelligence, why is there more and more opposition to it?

[BlueState]

35. She has every right to disagree

However, she makes statements, that I have pointed out are not true. Division is still taught in the way I learned it in the 70s.
Period. To say otherwise is a lie.

She is lying. You can criticize common core all you want. But when you choose to damn legitimate teaching methods that will benefit children. I have a real problem.

[Jefferson23]

36. She is not correct about how the work sheets were marked and why?

The essence of her complaint is that Common Core is not advancing an understanding of math
and the complaints she has expressed are supported by teachers across the country.

[BlueState]

40. Yes she is not correct about the worksheets

As I stated. They are marked because that way because they are are being asked to demonstrate how the answer is derived.

http://www.nctm.org/ccssmposition/

Math teachers support this approach. Maybe you can find some that do not. But many do. And officially as a group they do.

But facts don't appear to matter to you. You're like the climate change deniers who find some scientists that claim it isn't man made
and ignore the vast majority.

[Jefferson23]

45. Yes, and they do not understand it, why is that? She did not lie, the children were told they were

wrong. You look very foolish comparing me to climate change deniers.

I already gave you links and perhaps you do not realize the complaints coming from
teachers about Common Core. Perhaps your link will provide the data that Common Core
has been an overwhelming success. I do not see that listed as an achievement at your link.

snip*The numerical demands for 50-50 or 70-30 literature vs. informational text should be eliminated. They serve no useful purpose and they have no justification.

In every state, teachers should work together to figure out how the standards can be improved. Professional associations like the National Council for the Teaching of English and the National Council for the Teaching of Mathematics should participate in a process by which the standards are regularly reviewed, revised, and updated by classroom teachers and scholars to respond to genuine problems in the field.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/01/18/everything-you-need-to-know-about-common-core-ravitch/

[BlueState]

48. I don't look foolish at all.

What part of not being able to demonstrate an understanding do you not get? The reason they are told they are wrong
is because they didn't answer the question being asked. Demonstrating a conceptual understanding of mathematics is
very important and it is dangerous to want to eliminate this because you have some underlying agenda. This is exactly
like climate deniers.

My link shows only that there certainly are math teachers that support it. You say that it bad because there are teachers that are against it. I can just as easily say that there are teachers who are for it, therefore it must be good. But I don't.

[Jefferson23]

49. For crying out loud, the children are not learning.

Dangerous to want to eliminate Common Core or is it dangerous to ignore all the complaints
and problems and fix it? Your link offers no evidence Common Core is working.

132 catholic scholars will not adopt it, and wrote a complaint about it so it would not be implemented
in their schools. You have a cross spectrum, of educators who have demonstrated serious issues.

The climate deniers analogy is silly...very much so.

I think we're done here, save your insults for someone who desires to communicate with you.

on edit for clarity.

[BlueState]

50. Who says the children are not learning?

It is way to early to make a statement like that.

The Catholic schools don't support for reasons that most of us here would disagree with. They don't like some of the literature.
Many in the church have said they agree with the educational approach.

Here is where you are like a climate denier. You keep stressing how important it is that teachers are against it.
Yet most are not.

http://www.edweek.org/media/epe_survey_teacher_perspctives_common_core_2013.pdf

"Despite their uncertainty about their current level of preparation to teach the new academic expectations,
about three-quarters of respondents (76%) agree that the CCSS will help them improve their own
instruction and classroom practice. The vast majority of respondents (87%) also report having already
either fully or partially integrated the new standards into their classroom instruction."

[Jefferson23]

52. Funny you keep relying on untrustworthy accusations at me to make a point when you are not correct:

In an unusual statement, 132 Catholic scholars wrote a statement highly critical of the Common Core, which they sent to every bishop in the nation. They urged the bishops not to adopt Common Core in Catholic schools and to withdraw it where it had been adopted. They conclude that the Common Core standards are designed as standardized workforce training, doing nothing to shape and inspire the hearts and minds of children.

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/11/11/catholic-scholars-blast-common-core/

I find your position to be, desperate.

[BlueState]

54. You do know that there are more than 132 Catholic educators in this country don't you?

What you have once again done is confuse anecdotal evidence with a logical conclusion.

Many Catholic schools have implemented common core with modifications. Officially most of these modifications were made to align with Catholic doctrine.

http://www.edweek.org/media/epe_survey_teacher_perspctives_common_core_2013.pdf

I really am not a supporter of common core, but I hate fallacious arguments. And you keep making them.

[Jefferson23]

55. Fallacious arguments? I don't believe you know the meaning of that term. You have demonstrated

your lack of comprehension..they are academic scholars..not merely 132 educators and they gave a
an explicit warning. Whether they are ignored or not, by people such as yourself, is a different
matter altogether.

To dismiss the broad spectrum of pointed criticism of Common Core is a mistake;
for the sake of the children it needs to be abandoned or at the very least, heavily amended.

[BlueState]

58. I'm not dismissing anything

I am simply stating that you are putting a lot of your emphasis is on the opinions of people who agree with you.

You are stating, apparently, that since 132 Catholic educators are against in I should be too. But that, combined with the fact that many Catholic schools are implementing it would indicate to me that this is a minority view. It is you, not I who is placing this importance on what other people think. And I am merely pointing out that there are probably more supporters than detractors in both the general and the Catholic education field. That doesn't mean your wrong, but it isn't proof you are right.

I generally disagree with a one size fits all approach to education. And I am dead set against creating an environment of "teaching to the test." My original objection is, and remains, that the video posted misunderstands the mathematics being taught. There is a huge danger in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This kind of innovation in the teaching of math is a good idea and you will never convince me otherwise.

I also think your statements have been a bit overwrought. There are good things going on with common core and progress is sometimes painful.

[Jefferson23]

59. No, I have not done any such thing, I posted a variety of sources across numerous demographics

in academia and they do not support Common Core. As I said, it needs to be abandoned or
at the least, heavily amended.

[BlueState]

60. You are too funny.

You just don't get it do you.

You just proved what I said. You are placing your entire argument on what some people say.

I posted a comprehensive survey that clearly states the majority of all educators, and I trust them more than you,
are in favor of it. So if the opinion of a wide variety of educators is what matters then you should rethink your
position.

[Jefferson23]

62. Keep laughing and ignore the politics behind the decisions of those you trust and continue to

ignore the cross section of opinions who have stated their objections.

The longer Common Core is utilized as it stands, the longer the list will become by educators against it.

[questionseverything]

102. 599 educators is not "the majority of all educators"

but

the problem in the video is actually an addition problem....after the kids "count around" they are to add

5 plus 5 plus 5,,,,18 times equals 90

basically this is to give children a "math sense" which is great but for children that already have that sense, their mind jumps to the division problem of 90 divided by 18 equals 5....which for the test answer would be wrong

it is not mentioned in this video but the extended answers portion of math tests are easy to mess up too....for example if student forgets to write,"i added 4 plus 5 because I wanted to know how many apples their were all together" (which seems obvious) they would also be marked wrong

the test scores are going down by 30% which leads to failing schools which leads to defunding and charter schools

the whole program is just a couple of years old but entire school districts will end up defunded before the "tying tests to funding" thing is even looked at//////////////////////////

The Common Core standards should be decoupled from standardized testing, especially online standardized testing. Most objections to the standards are caused by the testing. The tests are too long, and many students give up; the passing marks on the tests were set so high as to create failure.

Yet the test scores will be used to rate students, teachers, and schools.

[A Simple Game]

89. The woman is either ignorant about math or lying. She is completely wrong

and so was the person that gave the answer to her.

The problem was not a division problem, it was a counting problem. The only way to correctly answer the problem and to show the work is with circles, and hash marks or a number line and counting up by increments. I'm not sure but it would probably be easier for fourth graders to use the circles and hash marks. Plain and simple, this was not a division problem and the woman didn't understand that. Division could be used as a check but not as a solution.

[RBInMaine]

69. You can't "fix" education just by adopting "higher standards." You need HEALTHCARE, universal

quality PRE-K, and NUTRITION programs. You need a broader culture that VALUES education and not video games and Duck Dynasty. You need less than a national average of 20% of kids being raised in poverty, and in some communities 50% or higher.

And there will always be different ability levels. They all can't pass the same standards.

The big danger is that this will burn out teachers, burn out kids, make kids feel like failures, and defeat the very purpose it is supposed to achieve. And in the meantime, the testing companies get rich as schools teach to the test day in and day out.

This is an over reach, and it is turning into a real national goat screw.

States can have good but reasonable standards. For higher achievers, have advanced, AP. and honors courses. For struggling kids, slower courses and supports, as it should be.

[blackspade]

72. Sorry, but as a parent of kids who are using common core....

I will vouch for their incomprehensibility.

The wording of the problem is not the issue. I had plenty of word problems back in the day, but in this case it's the methodology to get to the answer that is the issue.
What she describes is correct in that one of the methods that they require kids to use is circles and hashmarks to get to the result.
If common core wanted to increase 'real world' ways of getting to the answer, the answer would be the focus.
The methodology would be fluid. But that is not the case.

[mountain grammy]

31. I sat down and did homework with my 4th grade granddaughters

when I visited last month. They were doing the circles thing. I listened to this video and, first thought was right on! I had read this commentary from Diane Ravitch last year, and I'm not a fan of "common core" and think even less of Arne Duncan.

[Jefferson23]

32. With good reason. It is not an approach that we, as advocates for children, should support.

Thank you for your post.

[BlueState]

37. I am afraid for our children

If you are the advocate.

[Jefferson23]

38. Yea, me and all those top private prep schools who refuse to adopt it.

Me and all the scores of teachers against it who currently teach in public schools..ok.

Bye.

[lexington filly]

28. You can hardly evaluate any curriculum based

upon one person's interpretation of one math question. I personally liked the idea of our kids being taught how to think a problem through rather just memorize a few elementary facts. Shortcuts are great but as kids grow up, there aren't many life or job problems that don't require reasoning and problem solving skills.

Years ago I taught school in a British company school in Thailand as the only American. The French, British, German students ages 4-13 were miles ahead of American kids in every subject. Kids were reading fluently as 4 & 5 year olds. And this wasn't an exclusive prep school but more of an on the fly one. One thing the school had was very high expectations for the kids and 3 x wk creativity classes not defined simply as art or music but to foster all kinds of creativity.

[Jefferson23]

30. She gave one example to highlight the issues behind Common Core. n/t

[cannondale]

83. I'll give you an example of the "issues" behind

Quick, what's 90 divided by 5?

Hey, there's some serious learning'. Now it's time to divide 95 by 5, but be sure to simply memorize and not realize that 95 is 5 more than 90. OK, pencils down.

I just "obliterated" why we can't continue to have young students become automatons.

[Jefferson23]

86. You find there are no issues with Common Core, is that correct?

I have been reading about it and even its supporters are adamant that approaches
such as the example in the video are not examples they can get behind.

Common Core, as their supporters explain it, is not a curriculum in and of itself. The writers
of it, who I would have thought you would be familiar with, Jason Zimba and William McCallum,
have gone on the record and said, hey, don't blame us for these problems, blame a poorly
written curriculum.

With that said, I find your comments in this thread interesting but not convincing.

[cannondale]

87. "who I would have thought you would be familiar with, Jason Zimba and William McCallum"

"who I would have thought you would be familiar with" Why yes. We had dinner last night. Nice tone. So it's more important to know the authors than know that schools have incredible autonomy with CC?

"even its supporters are adamant that approaches such as the example in the video are not examples they can get behind." Math teachers could easily take what the common core actually reads and make it into a great lesson. CC does not dictate how you teach, and may give examples, but by taking one specific example from one teacher that one parent doesn't understand is pretty lame. I could have read that lesson plan (or whatever she was reading) and made it a great class. This woman doesn't know crap about math, so she read it (obviously not taking the class) and says "Gee, if I can't understand it based on some notes, then what good is it?"

"As their supporters explain it" is pretty vague, but agreed, it's not curriculum, which is why those who haven't bothered to read it and never tried to implement it (or thought about how it is to be implemented) are looking for generalities to make it look bad. And so yes again, I'd blame a poor;y written curriculum, which is what many are thinking is CC.

I find your non-teacher comments vague and misleading. I have read the CC standards for math (I placed them into a database, so I've read or scanned most of them... pretty good stuff if you know how to teach) and I like what I see.

[Jefferson23]

90. Your snark is weak. Non-teacher comments are not the only problems for supporters of Common Core.

Yes, I would think you would know the authors, and know they do not and evidently do
not want responsibility for the issues with how Common Core is being implemented.

As you say, if you know how to teach. It is lame to expect a school district to be prepared to teach when a
nation adopts a change for which they advertise as improved?

Students have time to repeat courses they are not successful with as presented in the video in the course
of a school year? I think not.

I trust you are sincere about providing the best for your students, and I am not doubting that you don't deliver
on that promise, yet there exists far too many problems with Common Core for me to ignore.


The Biggest Fallacy of the Common Core Standards
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/common-core-fallacy_b_3809159.html


snip*Much of today’s vigorous debate focuses upon particular standards in English and math. Supporters say that Common Core will “raise academic standards.” But we find persuasive the critiques of educational experts (such as James Milgram, professor emeritus of mathematics at Stanford University, and Sandra Stotsky, professor emerita of education at the University of Arkansas) who have studied Common Core, and who judge it to be a step backwards. We endorse their judgment that this “reform” is really a radical shift in emphasis, goals, and expectations for K-12 education, with the result that Common Core-educated children will not be prepared to do authentic college work. Even supporters of Common Core admit that it is geared to prepare children only for community-college-level studies.

snip*In an unusual statement, 132 Catholic scholars wrote a statement highly critical of the Common Core, which they sent to every bishop in the nation. They urged the bishops not to adopt Common Core in Catholic schools and to withdraw it where it had been adopted. They conclude that the Common Core standards are designed as standardized workforce training, doing nothing to shape and inspire the hearts and minds of children.

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/11/11/catholic-scholars-blast-common-core/

[cannondale]

93. "She gave one example to highlight the issues behind Common Core."

No. She gave one example of how she doesn't understand some random teacher's lesson plan.

So I head to the school board, read a lesson plan from 1975, pretend that it's absurd because I don't understand it, and...
-- I gave one example to highlight the issues behind 1970s math instruction!

Now I read from a lesson plan from pre-CC, and again I mock it and pretend that there wasn't a lesson that preceded it or that there wasn't some introduction to the topic. VIOLA! All lessons prior to CC suck, and I obliterated all non-CC instruction. Further, I gave one example to highlight the issues behind pre-CC.

You really should stick to your own topic. Of course CC is not perfect, and of course many disagree (including me) that students will receive the most bang for the buck, but come on -- "She gave one example to highlight the issues behind Common Core." No, she managed to convince people that by misunderstanding someone's lesson plan that may have been from CC that she had a point.

You can't follow your own thread. I responded to your topic, then you segued into some straw men. Some professors judged it to be a step backwards -- of course some did. Others liked what they saw. Some people hyped the promises of CC. Of course some did. But to the point at hand:

"She gave one example to highlight the issues behind Common Core." = bull.

[Jefferson23]

95. I have followed my own thread and the Mom's example does in fact represent a serious flaw.

Of course this thread is about Common Core and all of its problems as presented within the
course of the conversation here..perhaps you would prefer it remain exclusively to the video...no straw men
were offered as a diversion.

This is bizarre: Now I read from a lesson plan from pre-CC, and again I mock it and pretend that there wasn't a lesson that preceded it or that there wasn't some introduction to the topic. VIOLA! All lessons prior to CC suck, and I obliterated all non-CC instruction. Further, I gave one example to highlight the issues behind pre-CC. ( end )

How transformed a lesson could it have been when the results in the math scores for the students dropped from
the previous year? Or is she misrepresenting there too in your opinion.

Some professors judged it to be a step backwards, hmm. I believe the Mom has support for her concerns
as evidenced by the critics you were given links to review...not a shabby group as opposed to the corporate
interests who are pushing for it.

There are many questions as to why Common Core is being pushed so hard to be adopted in the US.
Having read from its supporters as well, and so far, I have seen no evidence it should be embraced.

Non-teacher comments withstanding.

[sulphurdunn]

33. I wonder if the common core

standards will be adopted by private prep schools? They won't of course, any more than they will adopt any of the other bullshit that passes for reform of "public education" by people who would never send their own children to the schools they want to turn into Darwinian rat labs for yours. No, they'll be sending their kids to private schools, to become masters of the universe, while yours become the cubical drones and ever cheaper labor they need to run it on the cheap for them.

[Jefferson23]

34. The goal needs to be to correct mistakes and do better. We should be able to do that and we

owe all children the opportunity to achieve in public schools.


Why America's Prep Schools Aren't Following Arne Duncan's Public School Education Reforms

http://magazine.good.is/articles/why-america-s-prep-schools-aren-t-following-arne-duncan-s-public-school-education-reforms

[BlueState]

42. I actually agree with the points in this article

"The problem is the public is force-fed these ideas of standardized curriculum, teaching, and assessment as the best tactics education science has to offer. They tell us that this is how we must educate our children."

That makes sense. This idiotic video doesn't. In fact it criticizes the kind of innovation we need to be implementing in math and science and avoids the real problem.

[Helen Borg]

51. Wow. I love rational people!

She should be on the board.

[blkmusclmachine]

53. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[rickford66]

56. Sure, it was a simple division problem.

But why? It appears that the Common Core solution explains why it's a division problem. Thereafter the student would recognize the easy way to solve it instead of having to memorize the way to solve it. Once you know why something works, you don't have to memorize it. I agree the problem seemed confusing because of the wording. Most of us in the engineering world take all kinds of math shortcuts that we know work on new problems because once upon a time long ago we had to prove the darn things. I believe most people "don't get math" because they are forced to memorize the operations without the basic understanding of why they work.

[BlueState]

61. Thank you

It is very important to get the opinion of folks who use advanced math professionally.

[valerief]

71. When the students "count around", what are they actually doing? I've never heard the

term "counts around" before. Is each one saying a number since they're "counting" around? What number/s?

I don't understand the scenario. If I were to film it, what would be happening? I do understand the concepts of multiples and divisions, just not the example given.

[rickford66]

74. I believe a teacher at a blackboard would show the students better

18 students in a circle. They count off by ones (1 thru 18). Then the first student starts counting again with 19 (19 thru 36) etc. They go around the circle 5 times when the 18th student counts 90. Not a normal problem for sure. The examples I've seen for Common Core math are ways most of us do math in our heads without paper and pencil. More practical in the real world. You learn to analyze a problem and make an educated decision on what math operation or operations are needed to get an answer. Say someone says their Mother who was born in 1920 is coming to visit. You wonder how old she is. You get out a paper and pencil and .... wait .... 1920 to 2000 is 80 and 2000 to 2014 is 14 so 80 plus 14 is 94. That's what they're trying to teach. Is that so terrible? I can't speak about the other subjects but the math seems reasonable.

[Jefferson23]

77. snip*There is no evidence that those who study these standards will be prepared for careers,

because there is nothing in them that bears any relationship to careers.

There is no evidence that the Common Core standards will enhance our national security.

How do we know that it will cause many more students to study math and science? With the collapse in test scores that Common Core brings, maybe students will doubt their ability and opt for less demanding courses.

Why so many promises and ungrounded predictions? It is a mystery.

Even more mysterious is why the nation's major corporations and chambers of commerce now swear by standards that they have very likely never read.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-ravitch/common-core-fallacy_b_3809159.html

[rickford66]

91. There is no system which satisfies everyone.

The parents with bright kids want certain things and the parents of struggling kids want other things and most in the middle get squat. It probably doesn't matter what methods are used to educated our kids. They will find their place in society. When I'm in New York City, which isn't often, I 'm always amazed that so many people find a racket to survive. Changes in the educations system, for better or worse, means someone makes money. That's no mystery. Sorry to ramble on. Time to watch Colbert and Stewart show from last night.

[Jefferson23]

92. I think we need to be very careful with decisions like this, we owe it to the students.

Enjoy the shows from last night!

[Thespian2]

73. A few decades ago

I also skipped many steps in solving math problems. How could I do that? I knew addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. And I understood how they worked. May as well confess that I did math with a pen, not a pencil, just to drive my math teacher nuts.
Common Core, with emphasis on testing, will kill public education, the goal of Arne Duncan and your corporate president.

Yes, I am a retired teacher (Wake County Public Schools, Raleigh, NC).

[rickford66]

76. probably true

I like what they are teaching but you are correct that the testing isn't the way to go. But, the arguments I've seen other places criticize all of Common Core by citing these math problems because they are apparently strange. Once they are explained, as a teacher would with students, most people would see the value of learning why not how. I'm 68 this year and remember being drilled in school with problems we had to do in our heads.

[shebornik]

57. This parent is

not giving an example of a standard, but an example of a test question. She isn't really talking about common core standards.

[pragmatic_dem]

64. No matter what your test score is, your job is going to India until they pass TPP...

then, it is going to Vietnam who has promised to work at more than 50% discount over India.

If Washington wants us to learn anything, it's that we have to learn how to live on $2/day.

On the up side, testing companies, like insurance companies, are making massive profits as they exploit our fears and weaknesses.

You can thank the conservative core in Washington for carefully avoiding the problem of corporations spending billions training low wage, unskilled workers in Asia, giving them competitive technology developed in the U.S., while barely paying a dime in taxes.

[Scuba]

65. Wonderful! Well done, Mom! I only hope the School Board gives a damn.

[pacalo]

66. Outstanding!

Clear, concise, & to the point.

[blackspade]

67. Well done.

[valerief]

68. Wow, if Common Core is like that example she gave, it's a whole lot of SHIT. nt

[cannondale]

85. As a math teacher, I'd have to disagree

Memorization is shit. Once I get most or all of a class to understand the concept, the shit goes away. Just because most adults want to take the larger number and "divide" by the smaller number and get some answer that may or may not make any sense, doesn't mean by teaching various concepts behind how such a problem can be approached.

When a calculus student determines that the car must be going -2800 MPH and circles their answer, they get fewer points than the student who writes "the answer lies between 20 and 40 MPH, but definitely positive and less than 50."

Want to know what memorization is complete shit? Teach a calculus class and see how many students have memorized throughout the years. They are great at memorization, but I would never hire them (I own a programming business) because they look to specific methods to solve a problem. Student who understand the concepts are the best calc students.

The example is pretty good, but presented by a parent who obviously does not understand the concept. Good thing she isn't in the classroom teaching my child.

[rickford66]

94. perfect

Presented with a unique problem, memorization is useless. Most of us who have taken calculus will remember the exact moment that it all made sense and thereafter we could tackle any unique problem.

[Jefferson23]

75. States Finding New Names to Rebrand Common Core By dianeravitch

Lyndsey Layton at the Washington Post reports that the name “Common Core” has become so toxic in some states that officials are calling it something else. This is known as old wine in new bottles.

She writes:

“Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (R) used an executive order to strip the name “Common Core” from the state’s new math and reading standards for public schools. In the Hawkeye State, the same standards are now called “The Iowa Core.” And in Florida, lawmakers want to delete “Common Core” from official documents and replace it with the cheerier-sounding “Next Generation Sunshine State Standards.”

In the face of growing opposition to the Common Core State Standards — a set of K-12 educational guidelines adopted by most of the country — officials in a handful of states are worried that the brand is already tainted. They’re keeping the standards but slapping on fresh names they hope will have greater public appeal.

At a recent meeting of the Council of Chief State School Officers, one of the organizations that helped create the standards, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee (R) urged state education leaders to ditch the “Common Core” name, noting that it had become “toxic.”

http://dianeravitch.net/2014/01/31/states-finding-new-names-to-rebrand-common-core/

[alp227]

81. A math teacher addresses the concerns about Common Core math.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/07/about-that-common-core-math-problem-making-the-rounds-on-facebook/

The problem with that method is that if I ask students to explain why it works, they’d have a really hard time explaining it to me. They might be able to do the computation, but they don’t get the math behind it. For some people, that’s fine. For math teachers, that’s a problem because it means a lot of students won’t be able to grasp other math concepts in the future because they never really developed “number sense.”

I think this video and the complaints about "new math" illustrate how right wing thinking relies on authoritarianism and obedience to rigid rules in contrast with left wing thinking. Hell, Fox News has actually argued that math could be a left wing conspiracy. Seriously the right wing in this country is that bleeping dumb.

[SunSeeker]

100. Wow. Thanks for the link! I think I finally understand what my kid is doing...I think.

Those scribbles look a lot like his homework. His grade school is using Common Core principles to teach math. I find them confusing. Thank goodness he doesn't need my help with his homework. He gets it and he loves it. He says his favorite subject is math.

[Jefferson23]

101. Progressives are not behind the Common Core agenda from what I have read.

Looking at its history from the link I offered in my previous response to you and this additional information below.

Again, I will add, we will likely see cross over complaints for various political gains from the right wing,
but do not mistake this approach ( Common Core ) to be embraced by the left, quite the contrary.

6 Reasons Why the Common Core is NOT Progressive Ideology

http://www.artofteachingscience.org/6-reason-why-the-common-core-is-not-progressive-ideology/

Bio: Jack Hassard
http://nepc.colorado.edu/author/hassard-jack