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Wed Sep 30, 2015, 02:47 PM

Wikileaks: TPP To Be Signed This Week

On September 26, a meeting between negotiators from all 12 nations involved in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) will commence in Atlanta, Georgia. The meeting will run through September 30, followed by two days of meetings with trade ministers.


The TPP is not only facing resistance from electronic privacy groups, but from grassroots activists and concerned professionals around the world. On October 1, the group #StopTheTPP Atlanta is planning on hosting protests and rallies outside the building where the negotiations are being held.


More here:
http://theantimedia.org/tpp-negotiators-meeting-this-week-to-finalize-corporate-trade-deal

I fear that the goal of Wikileaks to get complete transcript of the trade bill has failed.



In this video, at least Bernie Sanders stands against the entire TPP agreement on behalf of the American people.



I feel sick at heart at our massive helplessness in the face of the global oligarchy. We all should.

71 replies, 4546 views

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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply Wikileaks: TPP To Be Signed This Week (Original post)
ancianita Sep 2015 OP
Angry Dragon Sep 2015 #1
ancianita Sep 2015 #2
Angry Dragon Sep 2015 #3
ancianita Sep 2015 #4
cascadiance Oct 2015 #71
Volaris Sep 2015 #23
roguevalley Sep 2015 #30
ancianita Sep 2015 #32
Trajan Sep 2015 #51
roguevalley Sep 2015 #68
ancianita Sep 2015 #5
JDPriestly Sep 2015 #7
ancianita Sep 2015 #9
Trajan Sep 2015 #53
ancianita Sep 2015 #54
Trajan Sep 2015 #58
bjobotts Sep 2015 #14
ancianita Sep 2015 #17
Maedhros Sep 2015 #24
JackInGreen Sep 2015 #28
ancianita Sep 2015 #36
zeemike Sep 2015 #29
Angry Dragon Sep 2015 #44
Enthusiast Sep 2015 #6
JDPriestly Sep 2015 #8
bjobotts Sep 2015 #15
KoKo Sep 2015 #49
GoneFishin Sep 2015 #52
Thespian2 Sep 2015 #56
Enthusiast Oct 2015 #69
ancianita Sep 2015 #10
historylovr Sep 2015 #11
ancianita Sep 2015 #12
historylovr Sep 2015 #46
ancianita Sep 2015 #47
ancianita Sep 2015 #13
Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #16
bbgrunt Sep 2015 #18
SamKnause Sep 2015 #19
ancianita Sep 2015 #20
ancianita Sep 2015 #21
valerief Sep 2015 #22
riverbendviewgal Sep 2015 #25
daleanime Sep 2015 #27
daleanime Sep 2015 #26
ancianita Sep 2015 #31
ish of the hammer Sep 2015 #33
ancianita Sep 2015 #35
ancianita Sep 2015 #34
Hoyt Sep 2015 #37
ancianita Sep 2015 #38
KoKo Sep 2015 #50
Hoyt Sep 2015 #61
ancianita Sep 2015 #63
Hoyt Sep 2015 #64
ancianita Sep 2015 #65
MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #67
ReactFlux Sep 2015 #40
Hoyt Sep 2015 #62
ReactFlux Sep 2015 #66
ReactFlux Sep 2015 #39
ancianita Sep 2015 #41
ReactFlux Sep 2015 #42
ancianita Sep 2015 #57
ancianita Sep 2015 #43
ancianita Sep 2015 #45
ancianita Sep 2015 #48
ancianita Sep 2015 #55
ancianita Sep 2015 #59
ancianita Sep 2015 #60
PotatoChip Oct 2015 #70

Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 02:51 PM

1. Doesn't Congress get a vote on it??

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #1)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 02:55 PM

2. Obama's fast track request was granted. The Senate already voted for it. It appears unstoppable.

Where the House has gone with it I'm not finding info on. If you do, please keep us posted.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 02:58 PM

3. My understanding is that Congress gets to do an up or down vote

with no debate

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:00 PM

4. And what do you project that vote to be? Who owns their votes, again?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:16 AM

71. It would serve as a good voters guide on who to primary and kick out of congress!

 

Get them the FUCK out of there!!!!

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:27 PM

23. I was under the impression they can debate it all they want..

They just can't amend it (which kind of destroyed one of the Legislatures primary functions..oh well, welcome to the Imperial Presidency I guess) OR filibuster it.

It's 51 votes and a majority in the House and it's a Done Deal. Sadly...

If this is incorrect information, I take it someone here will correct me?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:41 PM

30. I will never ever forgive Obama for this atrocity. More reason to get

bernie in there. We can rip it up later on, that and NAFTA. Damn this to hell.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:48 PM

32. How can Bernie rip it up if Congress, Obama sign off? Can SCOTUS rule it unconstitutional?

Under what legal precedents, under what constitutional stance could it possibly do so?

Will the public be propagandized into thinking they'll be okay?

What will globalists and their international firms do about firms, cities, states that break the treaty? Start a spate of lawsuits across the land? Then how long will all that drag on as the rest of us are dragged down by new company owners, new salary scales, new unregulated products flooding our food and other stores.

I firmly hope this will happen soon, and that we get back to running our economy for the 99% rather than globalists.

Bernie will be two years late to the TPP party. What will he actually be able to do, is the question.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:21 PM

51. Look ... You first must have the WILL to overturn it

 

That's not going to happen with anybody but Bernie, and O'Malley ...

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Response to ancianita (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 11:28 PM

68. treaties and laws can be undone

we can withdraw or the congress can get rid of it. We have to change congress too. We are talking about a law made by people. People can undo it. How, I am sure there is a legal way. I doubt that bernie will allow it to stand. He hates NAFTA too.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:19 PM

5. This is not anti-Obama. But be honest -- Obama is responsible for our upcoming loss

of national sovereignty over globalists' controls of our pharmaceuticals, our oil, mineral and water resources.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:37 PM

7. Absolutely on. It is an enormous sell-out, and the international economy including ours

is about to go through another "correction," and the TPP is going to make the burden that "correction" imposes on Americans that much worse.

I'm stickin' with Bernie.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:46 PM

9. JD, once it's signed BERNIE CAN'T FIX THIS. DU HAS GOT TO WAKE UP to what this will do to our

children and grandchildren's future lives.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:28 PM

53. Why do you say this?

 

First, the WILL to change it must exist ...

What other option is there? .. WTF do you propose to do about it? ... What is YOUR solution?

A supremely cynical rejection of all possible options, is not an option ...

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Response to Trajan (Reply #53)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:40 PM

54. I'm not seeing it on DU. Options offered have drawbacks I've offered, nor have my questions even

been met with attempted answers.

My solution -- Obama will
1. have the guts to print the agreement in full,
2. conduct a national referendum on it within 60 days of public access, and then
3. go with what the 99% register in the referendum.

That will be the only fair, short term solution to what has been secret global arrangement across several administrations. It might not turn out the way I want -- which is for the TPP to be completely overhauled, what we know of it, or scrapped in favor of a series of trade deals at least as favorable to our workers as it is for other countries' workers.

If that doesn't happen, I want the SCOTUS for the first time in U.S. history, to abrogate a treaty as unconstitutional, having stated and economic proof that it unduly burdens the electorate by depriving them of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, among other discoverable compromised rights. IF they are willing to take on globalists' interests in favor of their nation's people's interests.

What do you think?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #54)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:16 PM

58. That is a rational response .. Thanks

 

It's a bad situation .. I cannot believe that even our supposed 'Liberal' congresspersons in Liberal Oregon are voting for this mess ...

It's a crazy season ... All I know right now is to support Bernie and hope this somehow dies ...

Ron Wyden, Susan Bonamici and Earl Blumenauer need to hear us, loud and clear

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:38 PM

14. This will make Ameica a 3rd world nation and Corporatocracy

 

Corporate tribunals will say the law is what ever we say it is. Begin by removing corporate charters of those who don't operate in the public good. We cannot stand helpless as our democracy is taken from us by the oligarchs who operate like gangs

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Response to bjobotts (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:49 PM

17. Who will remove them? Biden? Sanders? Who has the standing? The power?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:31 PM

24. We better make it "US" as quickly as possible.

 

To that end electing Sanders will be an enormous help, and electing Hillary or the Republicans will be an enormous hindrance.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:40 PM

28. You are not really trying to allude

That Hillary might sweep in on a stallion and save us all? Save that hoke for fridge sales.

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:19 PM

36. Far from it. Two years from now, I can't see either of them stopping the TPP's implementation

except through the courts. Hillary wouldn't touch it since she's been one of its longstanding supporters, even if she recently walked back that position.

And what if Citizens United gets overturned. Would she be the one to drive that move? Would ending CU change anything if, once the TPP's in place, Bernie or Hillary did have the influence to take money out of politics?

Wouldn't the running of the economy be pretty much done from somewhere else? And so, wouldn't the bully pulpit be used to either muster a SCOTUS decision to end it, or get the working class used to all the economic fallout -- either by media distraction or some other means?

I'm trying to envision the consequences of the TPP passing, and to me they seem beyond our present fixations on social justice issues and even the primary and general elections.

UNLESS we make the TPP a litmus test for our voting. That's a possible path for Republicans getting more than the wacko vote.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:41 PM

29. And once Obama signs it we will have to like it.

And we will hear how it is really a good thing...No Republican could have gotten away with that...we would have been outraged.

And it will all be over before the next election and we will be stuck with it.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #5)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:25 PM

44. yes

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:30 PM

6. Why would President Obama do this to his supporters?

Why would he betray our interests in this way?

When we criticize President Obama on The Democratic Underground we anger a number of his more ardent supporters. I think their anger is misplaced. If they would join us in our criticism of the TPP maybe we could stop it. A President's decisions must be scrutinized at all times.

We have lived with the damage done by the Clinton's Administration's decisions in the form of NAFTA, the Telecommunications Act and Gramm-Leach-Bliley. Will we also look back on the Obama Administration's decisions and say, "This is where the Obama Administration betrayed our interests and did the nation's workers great harm."?

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:39 PM

8. Hear! Hear! Well said!

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:46 PM

15. You can both support him and criticize wrong actions

 

I love Obama, the best that could be obtained in the present situation but he is totally wrong on this trade agreement. If it has to be secret then it can't be good for fear it would be rejected if made public. Corporate tribunals taking precedent over US law? Should not be...can't be... allowed in a Democracy. The People's tribunal should take precedent...always.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:16 PM

49. K&R..........

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:23 PM

52. I would not doubt if TPP is his end game. He never fought for any progressive cause like he is

fighting for this right wing fascist TPP.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:59 PM

56. YES

Obama is owned by corporations...

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #56)

Thu Oct 1, 2015, 04:53 AM

69. And that is just sad.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:54 PM

10. 58 of DU care? Wake up, DU! Are we done caring about our children's/grandchildren's futures?

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:44 PM - Edit history (14)

Are we THAT weary about thinking the consequences of this upcoming secret, horrendous act perpetrated upon us that we can't come up with something??

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:15 PM

11. I am sick at heart too.

And I don't know what we can do to stop this.

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Response to historylovr (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:22 PM

12. Let's look at how the consequences of this secret agreement will ruin our children's and grand-

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:01 PM - Edit history (1)

children's futures... because it will. But first my venting...

We've been tricked! We've been had! We've been took! Bamboozled! Led astray! Run amuck!

And I'm not posting this to be cute:

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Response to ancianita (Reply #12)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:48 PM

46. We are definitely leaving a sorry legacy for our children and grandchildren.

All for the avarice of the few. The betrayal tastes like lead.

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Response to historylovr (Reply #46)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:50 PM

47. Indeed. Envision any post-TPP scenario that's good. I can't.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:36 PM

13. First: For work -- hundreds of thousands, probably millions of our kids and grandkids

First: For work -- hundreds of thousands, probably millions of our kids and grandkids -- even as degreed professionals -- will be driven to work where the jobs are -- out of our home country! Why? Because only the government-driven jobs will afford their services; the general economy won't afford their services.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:49 PM

16. Time for tar, feathers, pitchforks and guillotines.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:53 PM

18. k and r

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:02 PM

19. This will devastate the masses of every country

who signs this monstrosity.

This is not a trade deal.

This is a surrender of rights to corporations and tribunals.

Why are we being betrayed like this ???????????????

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Response to SamKnause (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:06 PM

20. Secretly pushed on us by Wall Street and global capitalists SINCE NIXON!

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:36 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:10 PM

21. As Sanders says, the TPP will drag down American workers' medical affordability, medicine

affordability. minimum wage levels, job hire-ability ranges, our working conditions, our unions' and our government's legal status in trade conflicts -- and thus, all American workers' living conditions.

Because of the TPP, American life will be dragged down to living conditions much worse than they become since the "giant sucking sound" of NAFTA was allowed.

You think our country's stagnating development approaches third world conditions now? You ain't seen nothin' yet.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:15 PM

22. This is the end of the world, not the blood moon. nt

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:36 PM

25. Sickening

Everything is wrong in the TPP. My main worries are my country's health care, prescription drugs and water. TPP is for the corporations around the wprld's benefits. I hate my PM Harper and and sooooo disappointed in Obama. The USA is the most powerful and richest country. It will benefit the most.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:38 PM

27. The nation? No, we won't see a single benefit.....

the .1%? Yeah, this was written for them.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:36 PM

26. K&R.....

Mr. President, this is the wrong way to unite the world. It guarantees conflict between the 1% and the rest of us. And you help ensure that the ballot box offers no relief.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:41 PM

31. Second: Those of our children/grandchildren who inherit -- they won’t have the income or resources

to even maintain the properties we leave them since taxes at current rates will make them unaffordable.

Those who inherit a wad of cash will find their inheritance short-lived. Could they, long term, even afford the costs of repair and maintenance? Could they afford to raise children in those homes anymore?

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:55 PM

33. the blueprint of what to do to stop this is readily available

OCCUPY WALL STREET

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Response to ish of the hammer (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:03 PM

35. Really? Are any of them running for office? The courts? Will public protest attract a revolution?

When will they apply their blueprint? Before or after the TPP takes effect?

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:01 PM

34. Third: Our children’s and grandchildren’s lives will be literally threatened and shortened

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:04 PM - Edit history (1)

because of the global conditions of food, its accessibility, quality and quantity. Access to nutritious, affordable food? Not likely. Our kids/grandkids won’t know what’s in it or where it comes from.

Hell, if nothing is done on the SCOTUS front to end TPP, and given the new 3rd world level of minimum wage they earn after the next few years, they’ll probably stand in lines for government rations. And we all know how THAT looks – bags of bean/grains, dairy and meat supplements from whatever wealthier countries didn’t sign on to the TPP. Look at how our trading partners' children eat now. That's their future.

They won’t afford to eat out, even for family occasions -- IF families aren’t split up when members go abroad to look for work to pay for their housing's taxes and maintenance -- except at the cheapest franchises, owned by god knows who of the TPP partners, who employ people at pay they can’t even spend on the food they serve.

Sure, there will be eateries, but not populated by working America. It will be the cost of living that keeps American workers unable to afford nutritious, SAFE food. The stresses of making a living will take their toll, as TV, Internet become more unaffordable. Maybe they’ll stop caring, anyway, about seeing the ads that cater to the 1%.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:27 PM

37. There are still numerous areas of disagreement. Doubt there will be a final agreement for Obama

to sign this week before sending it to Congress.


I still applaud Obama for trying to make this important trade deal because I believe when it is finished (assuming the final disputes can be resolved), the majority of grousers will admit they were wrong (although some will find it embarrassing to do so publically and will continue to criticize every little aspect that doesn't meet their approval).

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:42 PM

38. I will be so happy to loudly proclaim wrongness, but when will the effects of that finished product

be felt or known, even? Do you know? I say when it's too late to do anything but grouse some more about it.

If it turns out to be a grand trade deal, I will not grouse about any "little aspect" of it if it proves to benefit us all, generally. Anyone can even post a call out thread on me.

Did you see Bernie Sanders' rundown of trade deal history that's run down everyone's share of the economy but the already rich gamblers of Wall Street?

Mexico has been all the worse for NAFTA. I hope you've noticed how the NAFTA deal is still hurting us by driving those who suffer from it to our land. Does their hardship toughen them up? Sure, to take anything they can find.

I love immigrants, am the grandchild of immigrants, speak Spanish, have Hispanic friends, but if TPP is worse than NAFTA was, our children will likely be the ones emigrating. Two in my family already live abroad to get more "opportunity" -- one in Australia and one in Switzerland.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:18 PM

50. Well Said!

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Response to ancianita (Reply #38)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:09 PM

61. We are talking the future here, not history. Mexici is not worse off for NAFTA. Some areas maybe,

but ask those who are getting much better jobs from Audi, Ford, etc. Fact is, Mexico and Canada begged to be part of TPP.

Would be interested in the jobs your two family members have? Is it some mom and pop company with no global trade, or something benefiting from global trade?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #61)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:14 PM

63. They benefit from being well educated. One works for FireEye, the other for Takeda Pharma and

DeLoitte. Whew. From teachers and second generation Chinese parents.

Could they have worked in the U.S.? Yes, but they chose love partners in those countries, as well, and the job markets there have appreciated their skills.

So you can accuse me of being disingenuous, but they had no love for this economy when they left. The love attachments came after their global job searches.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #63)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:27 PM

64. Well, they are working for companies that trade globally and benefit from such trade. The world

economy can similarly benefit all of us, not to mention countries that need the investment.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #64)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:39 PM

65. I don't see how it benefits all of us. They deal in propping globalists.They benefit their companies

and not us. Trickle down doesn't happen from within or without the U.S.

Their propping those companies in no way props America, since the older one sells Internet security products to global corporations, and the younger has an income propped by inflated drug prices here in the U.S. They both offer value in skills and knowledge, but it doesn't help the American economy.

It's true that one of them, the daughter in Switzerland, only has to pay taxes after she earns her first $50,000. I know for a fact that she earns $250,000.

She has a Swiss bank account. The Chinese half of the family is pleased.

I care. But I can't bring this up in holiday company.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #61)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:55 PM

67. So it's better to have a job at a Mexican Audi or Ford plant?

... Compare and contrast the regulatory safety for the laborer in Mexico with that of America.

... Compare and contrast the state of water, air and transportation infrastructure in Mexico with that of America

and after this, examine and define the conditions of which corporations under the TPP can demand retribution from a sovereign nation that doesn't conform to the (LESS) quality standards during the manufacturing of said products.

"Mexici is not worse off for NAFTA" my ASS. What steaming pile of nonsense that is, Hoyt.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:54 PM

40. You applaud what you do not know, interesting...

 

guess I know where to put your opinions on important matters, in the circular filing cabinet.

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Response to ReactFlux (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:11 PM

62. You criticize sonething you haven't seen, and probably don't understand long-term benefits.

I've seen nothing to make me believe Obama will sell us down the river, yet you think so.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #62)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:42 PM

66. I criticise that, yep... transparency in GOV is important to me and...

 

and at one time professed by Obama as well.

So, there's that, not to mention what has been leaked, plus our relatively recent experiences with trade deals that were supposed to be good for us, too... marketed by DLC leaders of past and present.

so, theres a lot "nothing"... I suppose

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:53 PM

39. The People's Voice ain't worth a plugged nickel in today's DLC political establishment

 

time to kick the bums to the curb.

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Response to ReactFlux (Reply #39)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:57 PM

41. YUP. But what I'm raising here will do a run around political contests, once the economy tanks

for most of us and there's nothing we can make leaders do about it.

I want the TPP gone for good, but if it passes this year, we'll have to wait at least two years before a Bernie will be able to do anything about it, UNLESS it's challenged in the courts, gets to SCOTUS and gets abrogated. I just don't see that that's ever happened in our history.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #41)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:11 PM

42. That will not happen without a political revolution

 

it's encouraging to hear a political candidate actually state the same, otherwise they are just blowing smoke.

in short, if Bernie doesn't get in, nothing will change.

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Response to ReactFlux (Reply #42)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:10 PM

57. Welp, we'd better get crackin' or you're only danglin' hope. And welcome to DU!

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:11 PM

43. Fourth: Public schools? Thousands of privatized schools,funded by public money, have failed,

then closed. Under the TPP, how will workers afford the current tax base to keep public schools viably paying current per pupil per year costs. They won't. I can't even deal here with school food.

Religions will likely pick up the slack. Homeschooling may increase, but only if families live on one income, which seems highly unlikely, except if the breadwinner is a government worker.

Increasingly private school teachers will be whoever will take the jobs, with no “Common Core” guarantees of globally competitive content, or degrees that our children’s children might earn that give them upward mobility that will likely be more costly than it is now.

With overall wages dropping, more jobs being shipped out, students will likely have to help work to make family ends meet. We know how that struggle has worked out. It's a darwinian challenge and the stresses will be greater than now.

Education under the TPP will never again be much more than a hard and costly path to whatever middle class exists … wherever it will exist when salaries go down and jobs for our children and grandchildren go elsewhere. That's also where our shrinking number of degreed professionals will go.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:42 PM

45. Fifth: Medicine? Health care? Medicine, reproductive and health services probably will drop.

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

They might only be affordable with government subsidies.

Even then, with less tax income, Single Payer won't be able to afford much beyond rationing. Perhaps communicable diseases will rise.

As doctors used to higher incomes leave for other non-TPP countries, those left will be paid from government subsidy, for whatever Single Payer will end up affording.

Lowering our standards of living may be pretty stressful, lead to compromised health, and health service lines might be further discouraging and stressful.

A sicker country won’t learn much, produce much or care much about its own slow global diminishment. The ethics of Pottersville will rule our lives.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:59 PM

48. Sixth: College? Neither less accessible, affordable; or tuitions will drop to accommodate enrollment

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

needs. Foreign students will flood colleges, especially from non-TPP countries.

Perhaps American students will be accepted under some "affirmative action" initiative. But as our children now say, “what use in the American market is a college degree and all that debt?”

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:48 PM

55. Seventh: Life’s callings/careers? Today’s aware kids and grandkids already say, BEFORE the TPP

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

implementation, “WHAT career?!” Most American children jeer at the prospect of any lifelong career that affords them a middle class existence, unless it's with finance, government or military. We've all seen the career stats for pretty much everything else, and the majority of our children reject debt as the cost of a career.

So we have to tell them what careers the TPP will grow. Does anyone have a working clue? What innovative trade partner will innovate new livelihoods in America?

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:17 PM

59. Seventh: Retirement. Long run, nonexistent, except in whatever undestroyed

national parks are left, helped by whatever is left of Social Security.

There won't be much saved to do anything but catch a bus across a border that might allow American entry.

Old age benefits won’t come too soon for the stressed, wherever they land.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:32 PM

60. Eighth: Death? Like now, but more pitiless, undignified. As we and our children afford

fewer options but ever present religious services, they will not remember us with much else but pity. Since legitimate suffering always brings out the care in people, we and they could enjoy green burial options.

American history will probably say that we were fooled, hurt by it, fought the best we knew how.

World history will hold our generation responsible for this country's diminishment. We'll be remembered as the most educated, resourced and resourceful, yet wasteful, mindless, cowardly of our country's short life.

They will also probably say, given our current status on the world stage, that it was for the best.

Please, let us try, TRY to end the TPP as we know it.

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Response to ancianita (Original post)

Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:23 AM

70. Too bad there is no such thing as an enforceable *global* minimum wage,

along with enforceable global environmental standards.

Yeah, yeah... I know that this is a ridiculously naive and unrealistic idea... But since I am already dreaming out loud, let's just say that this hypothetical global minimum wage would start at $15/hour (or higher) in each country's currency.

Setting aside all the reasons why this would not, or could not happen; just think for a moment how different the world would be if just these two policies were currently in place, and functioning on a global level.

--Sigh--

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