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Related: About this forumSkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)It is a shame that she is not embraced by DU for being the brave LIBERAL woman she is.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)She knows far more about Islam, and its effects on people, than any non-Muslim will ever be able to. Not only through her own personal experiences, but through those of other ex-Muslims.
And yet, in another thread, is a perfect example of what she is talking about when she was discussing her treatment by people she thought to be allies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=320057
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)The mental breakdown of some "Liberals" is mind boggling.
navarth
(5,927 posts)that poster was definitely being a first class asshole. I have no idea what's up with that.
I don't do ignore, but the list of posters here I don't like has grown exponentially in the last year.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Some here would then have to admit that a misogynist and intolerant religion is the antithesis of liberal principles but then they might not be viewed as "tolerant".
She is a better liberal than the Islamic apologists around here.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...to say the least.
ffr
(22,665 posts)Education is the tool. Probably why traditionalists demonize higher learning and those who further it. Traditionalists don't want anyone to think critically on your own. They want followers, not independent thinkers. They want to tell you what you should believe and shame you if you deviate from their beliefs until you conform.
The school of philosophy opens up thought, describes the processes of how we derive and substantiate ideas and conclusions. The skills learned there provide the logic behind our beliefs and the fallacies used to build many of them, as well as, the tools necessary to deconstruct conclusions and arguments.
Critical thinking isn't for everyone. It's understandable that to follow is easier and provides comfort to those don't want to belief in themselves or dislike the initial discomfort associated with it.
Good for Sarah! The world can be a bigger and more beautiful place. To get there just took a little critic thought.
I don't own a Bible, but if I did, it would be one book in my library: Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric 3rd Ed., on paperback; now in its 12th revision.
Moral Compass
(1,513 posts)I feel a kinship with her.
I left the Catholic church at the age of 13 after a four year intellectual journey that started when I discovered the Inquisition.
I found a reference to it in a juvenile historical novel and went over to the adult section in the library and found a book about the history of the Inquisition. When I went to the desk to check it out the librarian refused to let me check it out.
I was blessed with a mother who was a study in contradictions. She was a harsh prude about anything having to do with sex. But I was not reading about or wanting to read about sex. I was reading history. She called the librarian and told her to let me check out anything I wanted.
As I entered my teens with my faith profoundly shaken we moved to Colombia. I was confronted by deep, epidemic poverty the likes of which I'd never seen in my life. The source of any poverty is extremely complex, but overpopulation in the campesino class was a key factor. There was a nascent program to promote family planning through educations and distribution of free condoms and in Bogota, oral contraceptives.
This was the late 60's and liberalism was making rapid gains everywhere, but especially in Latin America.
To stifle this movement (it was not only in Colombia, but throughout all of Latin America) Pope Paul VI decided to tour Latin America. He actively preached against the family planning movement and told these poor ignorant people that if they tried to take control of their own reproductive lives that they would go to hell.
The movement collapsed overnight. Suddenly, those going into the vast shanty towns ringing every major city in South America could (literally) not give away condoms or birth control pills.
I left the church in disgust and have not ever gone back.
But I didn't have the courage of this young lady. She has organized to spread what she has discovered.
How I admire her.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)it was the left and the French-educated that wanted to triple each country's population
LiberalLovinLug
(14,165 posts)There is a difference in supporting self-determination by a people. And of accepting into our more egalitarian society, without any strings attached, whole closed off swaths of fundamental conservative religious groups, who treat women as second class citizens, almost like servants. Who will vehemently oppose women's right to choose an abortion. And in come cases require their women to cover their faces all the time. These are all new Republican voters, despite their treatment by some righties. Because in the end they will vote the issues the way their religion compels them to above all else, just like a lot of fundie Christians will be glad to vote against their own economic interests if a Republican spouts enough Bible verses and rails on about the rights of the fetus.
Those rape attacks in Germany by recent immigrants from Syria, if reports are to be believed, is a good example of what that kind of religious repression can lead to. Liberals must decry those attacks all the more. As they should be critical of the whole Islamic faith that condones the systematic brainwashing of young men and women that Muslim men have all the rights, over their own women, and especially over the western non-Muslim woman infidel.
The very fact that 50% of those in Muslim dominated countries think that the death penalty is perfectly reasonable for apostates like Sarah should raise the hackles of every liberal.
Its one thing to have an open mind, and open arms, but mostly all of these new immigrants are totally brainwashed cultists. We have enough of them with our own zombie Christofascists. We should be going out of our way to support ex-Muslims like Sarah Haider.
Duppers
(28,117 posts)Am saving your post, LLL.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)But all these "Ex-Muslim" things you keep posting? Not really sure that is fair or appropriate. Islam doesn't deserve to be singled out for extra attack, and it is hard to see how it can ever be progressive to do so(especially given the large number of anti-Muslim types pushing for all out global war against the Muslim world.
Also, would you find it acceptable for someone to post videos about "Ex-Jews"?
The answer is to push for all spiritual traditions to get in touch with their gentlest, most compassionate and inclusive sides...not to treat any particular religious tradition as more evil than all others.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)He is close to the neocon, pro-Israel crowd. David Rubin supports right-wingers like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Sam Harris, since they despise Muslims and support Israel's war-mongering like he does.