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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf

(22,381 posts)
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 08:04 PM Jun 2012

A video in defense of Sweatshops

Yes, a little missive from our friends on the right. In this case, "The Center for Humane Studies", a right-wing think tank out of DC.

Please keep in mind, it is deep thought like this that drives discussion in Washington. Really.

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A video in defense of Sweatshops (Original Post) Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Jun 2012 OP
Why should I feel better because someone else feels worse? nineteen50 Jun 2012 #1
It is a strawman Crow73 Jun 2012 #4
Shocking to find out its Koch funded... Crow73 Jun 2012 #18
I'm gobsmacked. Systematic Chaos Jun 2012 #2
Talk about a right-wing talking point. I personally was not swayed. lookingfortruth Jun 2012 #3
The people who made this video, I hate them. limpyhobbler Jun 2012 #5
Ayn Randian bullshit WhoIsNumberNone Jun 2012 #6
I'd say no matter what her 'standard of living,' her 'quality of life' is very low, then. freshwest Jul 2012 #25
talk about drival gejohnston Jun 2012 #7
Thomas Friedman's best buddy? RufusTFirefly Jun 2012 #8
I have seen the sweatshop in Saipan Left Coast2020 Jun 2012 #9
This advocacy for sweatshops suffers from a lack of imagination Jack Rabbit Jun 2012 #10
Serfs who worked on feudal estates were better off than vagrants who died at the JDPriestly Jun 2012 #11
They don't describe sweatshops as they really are. fasttense Jun 2012 #12
Change Corporate Charters, Unionize Everyone busysaru Jun 2012 #13
Hey buddy in the video, I got one for ya: Quantess Jun 2012 #14
And it would be mutually beneficial: the dumper get rid of his dump and the good ol' .... marble falls Jun 2012 #16
Well said, Quantess! These people are disgusting! nonoxy9 Jul 2012 #27
His first misleading statement about 15 seconds into it ...... marble falls Jun 2012 #15
This is a rip off of the RSAorg videos. secondvariety Jun 2012 #17
This guy's reasoning sulphurdunn Jun 2012 #19
Oh, now I'm so confused. Are sweatshops not evil? I think we can agree on one thing: tclambert Jun 2012 #20
Coming up next... jjewell Jun 2012 #21
Close . . . . HughBeaumont Jul 2012 #24
That video was sort of a whitewash. Quantess Jul 2012 #28
I showed this video to my social worker wife, who made through about 2 minutes . . . . HughBeaumont Jul 2012 #30
"Let's grant for the sake of argument..." chervilant Jun 2012 #22
PASS THE T BAGS! bluedave Jun 2012 #23
If you slant the facts just right you can make a case for just about anything...... wandy Jul 2012 #26
PUKE! burrowowl Jul 2012 #29
 

Crow73

(257 posts)
4. It is a strawman
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 08:43 PM
Jun 2012

If every country banned them then, there would be nowhere to go.
That is what he isn't saying.

Say all of Africa, East Asia, Middle East, South/Central America all banned them, say that it was part of free trade agreements.
Then what? The corporations would do what? Run them only in non-US free trade counties and pay the extra?

BP Solar in Frederick MD would routinely threaten their employees against unionizing. That if they did form a union the US factory would shutdown and move everything to the Spain factory. The Spain factory was union. They were half the size. It never happened.

It's all gone Chinese solar factories wiped them out, working sweatshop labor really helped....

WhoIsNumberNone

(7,875 posts)
6. Ayn Randian bullshit
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 10:20 PM
Jun 2012

So does the South African chick also have to have sex with her supervisor to keep her job? And if so, how is it factored into their assessment of her standard of living?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
7. talk about drival
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 10:29 PM
Jun 2012

I was in South Korea when they doubled the minimum wage. I don't know any Koreans missing the good old days.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
8. Thomas Friedman's best buddy?
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 11:12 PM
Jun 2012

What blows me away about such chutzpah is that the people who made this abomination can actually look at themselves in the mirror every morning.

Left Coast2020

(2,397 posts)
9. I have seen the sweatshop in Saipan
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 11:42 PM
Jun 2012

From the women I talked to there, they are not happy campers. It almost resembles a prison. And BTW, they are probably not any older than 15-16.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
10. This advocacy for sweatshops suffers from a lack of imagination
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 02:45 AM
Jun 2012

This lack of imaginations is evidenced by the lack of alternatives to the status quo in which, no matter what, working people are screwed.

Let's try to imagine ways that workers can get justice, not just close down the factories.

First, let's try discouraging entrepreneurs who can't imagine how they can ever pay a worker a living wage and still make a profit from opening a sweatshop in the first place. Paying sub-minimum wages should be made a criminal offense with stiff fines and penalties, as should repeated violations of health and safety codes.

Now let's get some restitution for the workers, who are theoretically owed back wages that constitute the difference between what they were paid and the established minimum wage. Hopefully, the local government isn't so corrupt that the minimum wage is below subsistence, but, of course, that could be the case. The factory itself should be held in escrow pending the outcome of the trial of the accused slave masters, and if they are found guilty then title to the factory should pass to the workers themselves. Hey, I'll bet they can figure out how to pay themselves a living wage and make a profit. If the workers don't think they can make a go of it, then the factory can be sold to an honest businessman, something that no sweat shop owner can claim to be.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
11. Serfs who worked on feudal estates were better off than vagrants who died at the
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 04:19 AM
Jun 2012

hands of outlaws and robbers in the woods.

Indentured servants in the US were better off than slaves.

But neither serfs nor indentured servants had enough income to support a capitalist economy. Because for capitalism to exist, you need consumers with money.

The video presents an obvious economic truth -- that people will pick the highest paying job they can get. Then, with a slick, logical high jump and turn-about it contorts the argument that the employer who pays poverty wages to people who work very hard is perfectly in his rights to sell the products produced at those poverty wages for high prices in other countries and pocket the difference and smart to do so.

The problem with this video is that it forgets the fact that if manufacturing jobs that pay enough for the workers to purchase the products they make are moved to factories in which workers do not earn enough to purchase the products they make, eventually, there will not be enough people with sufficient money to purchase the products -- and then the factories, sweatshops or not, will be closed and the jobs permanently lost.

In fact, that is what is gradually happening all over the world. The Irish, Greek, Spanish and Italian people bought products from Germany and elsewhere. But since the workers in Ireland, Greece, Spain and Italy did not earn enough money in their countries to pay for the products and the money borrowed to permit them to buy the products, the Irish, Greek, Spanish and Italian people are facing austerity measures. They are accused of spending and borrowing more than they were earning. Now they will stop buying the German products, and eventually the hard times that have hit elsewhere will hit Germany and other supposedly prosperous countries.

In time, if this trend continues unabated, the demand for manufactured goods will decline to the point that the world is in an even more serious depression than it is today and even the mining and production of raw materials will be unprofitable.

The makers of this video think in simplistic terms that are beyond belief. Do they think that we are as stupid as they are and cannot see the ultimate result of their economic, hogwash theories?

Yes, workers will seek the highest paying jobs. But unless those jobs pay enough to create a market for the goods they produce, the jobs will not last.

A few sweat shops in a world in which sweat shops are rare will be profitable. But when, as we now see happening around the world, sweat shops become the norm and the employees of those sweat shops are so poorly paid that there is no market for the goods they produce, the economies of the world will gradually shut down. When all manufacturing and most work is paid at sweat-shop rates, we will have a worldwide depression and who knows what that will mean for the political and social future of the world.

Typical right-wing propaganda. I'd like to know how well these people do on tests of reasoning. Not very well, I suspect.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
12. They don't describe sweatshops as they really are.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:17 AM
Jun 2012

They don't mention forced labor or serious health and safety problems. Many sweatshops force their "employees" to work excessive hours. They have been known to chain doors closed and tie workers to the equipment. Sweatshops are known to prevent workers from going to the bathroom, eating, or drinking. Some sweatshops make the woman have sex with strangers on their off time. Sweatshop owners have been known to force women to have abortions. They also hire young children and force them into 20 hour days.

Most workers do not know how bad the sweatshops are going to be. Yes, they know their wages are probably going to be very low but many workers don't know about the chaining of doors shut and the forced labor involved. They don't realize that many sweatshop owners force their workers into dorms/prisons so that they may have the workers at their beck and call.

This video ignores the real abuses and life threatening situations in sweatshops and assumes that only the worker's wages will be lower. Sweatshops involve abuse of workers and dangerous working conditions not just low pay.

So do you really think the worker picks the sweatshop knowing that they are putting their life and sanity at risk by working there?

busysaru

(2 posts)
13. Change Corporate Charters, Unionize Everyone
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 10:43 AM
Jun 2012

Corporate Charters have one rule: to maximize profit. Their charters do not require them to take care of the environment, to have unionized workers, to have a living wage, or to have safe working conditions. Maximizing profit is the only requirement. But it doesn't have to be this way. We could as a society decide what would be required of corporations in their charters, as they must get their charters from the state.

The other solution is world-wide solidarity. If everyone belonged to a union in all occupations world wide, we would all have bargaining power against these private tyrannies. But will unions step up to the plate to do this?

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
14. Hey buddy in the video, I got one for ya:
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 11:07 AM
Jun 2012

Let's say I take a big smelly dump in your chili, stir it up, and serve it to you?
You still get all the nutrients of the chili, and if you eat it voluntarily, then that's better than dying of starvation.

marble falls

(57,010 posts)
16. And it would be mutually beneficial: the dumper get rid of his dump and the good ol' ....
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 11:13 AM
Jun 2012

professor gets a nutritional bowl of chili that would be better than starving.

marble falls

(57,010 posts)
15. His first misleading statement about 15 seconds into it ......
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 11:10 AM
Jun 2012

"the agreement between sweatshop owner and the worker is mutually beneficial", maybe in a very lopsided manner. The owner is rich and the worker is in a hovel trying to subsist. The rest of this reasonably sounding discussion is just as heavily weighted towards the sweatshop. Who would willingly work in a sweatshop? So much for mutually beneficial.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
19. This guy's reasoning
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:07 PM
Jun 2012

is specious. If the minimum wage is x dollars and the sub-minimum wage is y, then y is illegal. If y is tolerated then it becomes the de facto, legal minimum wage, until z comes along to lower it further (which it will) until wages no longer raise the standard of living put remain at bare subsistence levels and the choice becomes working for a meal or going hungry.

tclambert

(11,084 posts)
20. Oh, now I'm so confused. Are sweatshops not evil? I think we can agree on one thing:
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 07:03 AM
Jun 2012

People who defend sweatshops are dicks.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
24. Close . . . .
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:05 PM
Jul 2012


Try telling a poor person they're not really as poor as they feel they are.

Unconscionable and insulting of these people. Really.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
28. That video was sort of a whitewash.
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 11:00 PM
Jul 2012

Not to mention that income mobility is terribly rigid in the USA.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
30. I showed this video to my social worker wife, who made through about 2 minutes . . . .
Fri Jul 20, 2012, 05:44 AM
Jul 2012

"You know where white guy with bad hair and worse politcs is? Hiding. In a classroom, just like the rest of the white guy libertarians. He wouldn't set foot in the homes I have to go to on a daily basis. GUARANTEED."

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
22. "Let's grant for the sake of argument..."
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:21 AM
Jun 2012

I think not. Let's compel Mr. Happy Presenter to work in a sweatshop, and see how much HE likes it.

wandy

(3,539 posts)
26. If you slant the facts just right you can make a case for just about anything......
Thu Jul 19, 2012, 02:44 PM
Jul 2012

Ninety-two point four per cent of juvenile delinquents have eaten tomatoes.
Eighty-seven point one per cent of the adult criminals in penitentiaries throughout the United States have eaten tomatoes.
Informers reliably inform that of all known American Communists ninety-two point three per cent have eaten tomatoes.

Mark Clifton's THE DREAD TOMATO ADDICTION

http://vintage.failed-dam.org/tomato.htm

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