Thom Hartmann: When will the total collapse of the Arctic ice sheet occur?

[thomhartmann]

Professor Peter Wadhams, Professor of Ocean Physics and Head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group - Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics, University of Cambridge joins Thom Hartmann. According to one of the world's top sea-ice experts - the entire Arctic ice shelf could be completely melted in just a couple of years - spelling disaster for the Earth. Have we reached the breaking point of the planet - or it there still time to get our acts together - and save the only home we know?

The Big Picture with Thom Hartmann on RT TV & FSTV "live" 9pm and 11pm check www.thomhartmann.com/tv for local listings

[StarryNite]

1. Geoengineering

"releasing powder into the atmosphere that can reflect radiation" ... chemtrails?

[HopeHoops]

3. Not what he's talking about. Think crop-dusting. Chemtrails don't exist, they're really contrails.

A contrail is just artificial clouds - vapor trails is another way to say it. The chemtrail conspiracy has been debunked repeatedly. He's talking about something similar to cloud seeding along with high-altitude inert material dispersants to offset the loss of reflection from the ice sheets. That idea has been around for a long time, but to the best of my knowledge it has never been tried. Either way, we're fucked in the long-term and we did it to ourselves. The sad thing is that we're taking the majority of land-based organisms along for the ride.

[StarryNite]

4. Geoengineering...

not crop dusting...big difference. Funny you should mention crop dusting though. My sister's neighborhood gets a lot of over spray from crop dusters. Two federal agents went out to take samples of the soil and plants several months ago. My sister talked about chemtrails to one of the feds that was in her yard taking samples. He replied back that he was aware of them and doesn't agree with everything the government does.

When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what you call it, the results are the same.

[HopeHoops]

5. I meant "crop dusting" at high altitude (as in the clouds are the crops).

Yes, overspray is a major problem. We have Monsanto to thank for a great deal of that. But still, the lines behind jet engines are just water vapor. There are much more efficient ways to distribute chemicals than through a jet turbine.

[StarryNite]

7. Overspray...

Yes, over-spray is a major problem. First they spray insecticides then after harvest they spray defoliant which is killing the trees and bushes in my sister's neighborhood. One can only imagine what it is doing to the people and animals. btw, the houses in her neighborhood were there before the extensive farming got underway.

The man in this video was specifically talking about putting substances in the air to deflect the warm air back out to space. Since you and I are not going to agree about whether chemtrails exist or not, in your opinion what would be a more efficient way to do it? And since when do 'they' care about efficiency?

[HopeHoops]

9. Well, it's not so much heat, but radiation. And it would have to be at a much higher altitude...

... than commercial planes. Something along the lines of how we coated Viet Nam in Agent Orange, but with a lighter material and probably from fighter jets equipped with dispersing devices. He doesn't specify WHAT element he proposes, but something bound with hydrogen or helium would probably work, and aluminum and sulfur dioxide are indeed possibilities. Personally, I think the possibility should be explored in an open way by the global scientific community and perhaps tested on a small scale in the near future. We know enough about the atmosphere, chemistry, and the global warming problem to address this without secrecy.

The most concise "debunking" of current "chemtrail" use is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

I know Snopes addressed the issue, but I couldn't find a good (as in coherent) link on the matter. It's a reliable source but hard to navigate.

Easily the best handling of the controversy is by Discovery Channel. As usual, they do an excellent job of allowing both sides to present their case without themselves drawing a conclusion. That's a rare thing now. This three-clip show is from five years ago and covers pretty much everything significant about the matter. It's well worth the watch (about 1/2 hour total).

[StarryNite]

10. Snopes is hard to navigate....

They need to expand the search words and topics...make it more specific...or less specific...or something. LOL

I have actually seen the Discovery Channel chemtrail video. I have a lot of videos that argue that there is a chemtrail program going on. But I won't put them on here....don't want to hi jack this anymore than we already have. LOL Also, I think talking about chemtrails is pretty much taboo here...unfortunately.

[HopeHoops]

11. Yeah, whatever happened to the conspiracy theory group? That's a good video,eh?

As for Snopes, it isn't just hard to navigate, it's damn near impossible. It's all threads, mostly without backup links. One thing I like about DU (among others) is that providing links is an unspoken rule (except in LBN, where it IS spoken). But yeah, we did sort of hi jack the thread. I'll start another one in a few days just to mess with people.

[StarryNite]

13. Yes, it is a good video.

I think it's a fascinating topic as far as conspiracy theories go because it's something we can all look up at and actually see...maybe we don't know exactly what we're seeing but nonetheless it's hanging right over our heads at times. Not all conspiracy theories are that close and personal.

Oh, I agree, I love that links are the rule here. And I do wish there was more of that on Snopes. With the election so close I've been having to go to Snopes a lot to correct my family and friends that keep passing the lies in email forwards about Obama. It's irritating and frustrating that people don't even try to get the truth. If they read something that goes along with their beliefs, truth be damned, they pass it on.

I hope I catch the thread you start in a few days.

[HopeHoops]

2. But hey, global warming's a myth, right? FOX says so - it MUST be true.

[heaven05]

6. if

all we have is two years, and I can believe it with us losing 18 percent this year alone of the arctic ice sheet, then we are screwed. All this election hoopla means nothing. Trial hoopla, nothing. Or is he wrong according to someone else that is knowledgeable about our fate as the human race on this little ball of dirt? If he's right, we're f.....!

[StarryNite]

8. I agree...

If he is right then this whole election is nothing more than a distraction. From my understanding, every chunk of ice that melts speeds up the whole catastrophic thing...the ripple effect.

[drynberg]

12. WHAT A STRANGE TRIP THIS HAS BEEN

Serious as a heart attack stuff, no? Minor "fixes" might buy a little time, but we are facing severe consequences, the likes of which the ReThugs have not yet even dreamed...For me, this says to enjoy each day as much as possible and to let go...I'm just saying.