Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ban On Menthol Cigarettes Could 'Solve A Fundamental Problem' In The U.S., Says Surgeon General (Original Post) IronLionZion May 2021 OP
The problem of 'cigarettes not properly tasting like scalded goats ass' Hugh_Lebowski May 2021 #1
I smoked once in my life and hated it IronLionZion May 2021 #2
there IS that. snort. stopdiggin May 2021 #3
Some people like to smoke and are going to be doc03 May 2021 #4
Sure it is qazplm135 May 2021 #5
Restaraunts give people to big a serving of food. A doc03 May 2021 #6
There's no such thing qazplm135 May 2021 #12
How did banning alcohol work out? I bet that many of the same people that doc03 May 2021 #18
Literally no one here qazplm135 May 2021 #21
Slippery slope Major Nikon May 2021 #9
Slippery slope arguments qazplm135 May 2021 #13
I mean, sure, if They want to 'limit the particular type' that almost all African Americans prefer Hugh_Lebowski May 2021 #11
The type qazplm135 May 2021 #14
I'm all about science Shermann May 2021 #7
Tobacco is the only legally-available product that will harm you if used as intended. cab67 May 2021 #8
Not as true as you might think Major Nikon May 2021 #10
You'd be hard pressed qazplm135 May 2021 #15
The studies that determine risk for less of either are non-existent Major Nikon May 2021 #17
One, your use is hardly the norm qazplm135 May 2021 #20
One, I never claimed it was Major Nikon May 2021 #22
I didn't talk about "addiction" qazplm135 May 2021 #23
Sorry, but that makes no sense Major Nikon May 2021 #24
Literally nothing you just typed is accurate qazplm135 May 2021 #25
Sounds Patronizing and Racist gipper66 May 2021 #16
How did prohibition work out? Just because I don't smoke cigarettes doesn't doc03 May 2021 #19
Yes, it's a stupid idea. zanana1 May 2021 #26
 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
1. The problem of 'cigarettes not properly tasting like scalded goats ass'
Sat May 1, 2021, 03:33 PM
May 2021

would probably be solved.

So there's that.

doc03

(35,146 posts)
4. Some people like to smoke and are going to be
Sat May 1, 2021, 04:27 PM
May 2021

very angry over it. We should be free to smoke what we want. I quit cigarettes back in 1981 myself but it is not any of my business what other people smoke.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
5. Sure it is
Sat May 1, 2021, 04:32 PM
May 2021

If the product is deceptively advertised, targeted at minorities, produces second hand smoke that can harm others including the children of smokers, and causes society massive healthcare costs.

Then yeah, it can and should be regulated. Now should smoking be banned and criminalized? No. But if government wants to disincentivize or limit particular types, no problem.

doc03

(35,146 posts)
6. Restaraunts give people to big a serving of food. A
Sat May 1, 2021, 04:52 PM
May 2021

Big Mac has too much fat content. Soda pop has too much sugar, ice cream is loaded with fat. All that stuff causes obesity and diabeties killing people before their time which harms their family and drives up health care costs. We gone to make that illegal too. Let people run their own life and make their own choices.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
12. There's no such thing
Sat May 1, 2021, 08:59 PM
May 2021

As second hand diabetes.

Food isn't inherently bad for you, too much is

Tobacco is inherently bad with no redeeming qualities health wise.

Comparing food and tobacco isn't an intellectually honest comparison.

doc03

(35,146 posts)
18. How did banning alcohol work out? I bet that many of the same people that
Sun May 2, 2021, 08:20 AM
May 2021

want to make it illegal to smoke tobacco at the same time want to legalize marijuana.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
21. Literally no one here
Sun May 2, 2021, 12:58 PM
May 2021

Said anything about banning cigarettes. I literally said the opposite in the comment just above in a comment to you that you replied to.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
9. Slippery slope
Sat May 1, 2021, 06:26 PM
May 2021

It’s all good till they come after your vices. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where everything bad for you is banned or regulated out of business.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
11. I mean, sure, if They want to 'limit the particular type' that almost all African Americans prefer
Sat May 1, 2021, 07:49 PM
May 2021

(if they use said product) ... And not the touch the 'particular type' that is most popular with white folks, who are we to complain?

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
14. The type
Sat May 1, 2021, 09:02 PM
May 2021

That is popular with AA which I am one of is the type specifically designed to hook people of color.

Shermann

(7,355 posts)
7. I'm all about science
Sat May 1, 2021, 05:47 PM
May 2021

But you can't approach this one scientifically. There are way too many cultural aspects tangled around it.

This hornet nest is best left un-kicked in my opinion.

cab67

(2,962 posts)
8. Tobacco is the only legally-available product that will harm you if used as intended.
Sat May 1, 2021, 06:05 PM
May 2021

Fatty food and alcohol aren't necessarily good, but they aren't harmful if used in moderation.

Tobacco will harm you whether it's used in moderation or not.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
10. Not as true as you might think
Sat May 1, 2021, 07:14 PM
May 2021

The idea that moderate alcohol consumption has no risks or is good for you is being challenged and is no longer considered solid ground. There’s just not that much data on infrequent use of alcohol or tobacco.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
15. You'd be hard pressed
Sat May 1, 2021, 09:04 PM
May 2021

To find any study that says one drink a day is worse than one cigarette, but certainly both are separate from food as to the balance between needs and harms for sure.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
17. The studies that determine risk for less of either are non-existent
Sun May 2, 2021, 07:10 AM
May 2021

I average at most one drink per week and there’s times when I go months without any. The same is true for my tobacco use. I smoke a pipe, but I only do so on my back porch in the spring and fall when the weather is nice and sometimes not even then. To me that is moderation. One drink or one smoke per day, while not very much, is still regular use of either.

We do know that for smoking or alcohol use, the less you do the lower your risk factor. It stands to reason at some point infrequent enough use has to drop to the level of risk to a non user. The problem being it’s very difficult to study such things.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
20. One, your use is hardly the norm
Sun May 2, 2021, 12:57 PM
May 2021

Second, there is not a single study touting the benefits of smoking once a day.

There's at least some studies that show possible benefits to occasional drinking, whether you think then disputed notwithstanding. I don't do either by the way so I have no bias towards drinking.

Third, nicotine is actually physically addictive and highly so. There is a component of physical addiction in alcohol but it's less so.

You want to defend your use of both, and that's understandable. I don't propose that you be barred from either or anyone else or either be criminalized. But that doesn't change that cigarette smoking very often captures those nearby in second hand smoke particularly children, or that you can't compare smoking to food and I'd argue it's worse overall than alcohol.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
22. One, I never claimed it was
Sun May 2, 2021, 08:53 PM
May 2021

But perhaps you know what the norm is for pipe smokers. I certainly don't. What I do know is all the pipe smokers I know do not smoke every day or even close to it. The same goes for all the cigar smokers I know. Both categories of smokers are far more likely to moderate their smoking to less, but the existing studies are limited to those who smoke far more. So how does any study which concerns far higher use relate? Perhaps not at all.

Second, whether or not there are or aren't studies you mentioned is not the same as a study which claims smoking will harm you regardless of how you use it. The key word is "possible" which also means the reverse is possible which other studies show.

Third, any claim that alcohol is more or less addictive than nicotine is opinion based, not fact based. Both routinely top the short lists of addictive drugs with either coming out ahead. Nicotine is also not a carcinogen while beverage alcohol most certainly is. So while I didn't even mention addiction (which certainly leads to something other than moderate use), either of those aren't categorically equal to the other.

I'm not defending either, so if that's what you got out of what I wrote you misunderstood. I fully understand there may be increased risk of mortality from very infrequent use of either, but it's also quite possible there may not.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
23. I didn't talk about "addiction"
Mon May 3, 2021, 12:50 AM
May 2021

I talked about physically addictive, as in the physical characteristics. There are also psychological addictions of which alcohol is near the top. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking purely about the physical effects of nicotine (not to mention the various OTHER toxic components of tobacco).

But you tell me how you think any study will find a safe level of:

Benzene
Formaldehyde
Vinyl Chloride
Arsenic
Cadmium
Ammonia
Nicotine
Hydrogen cyanide

No, nicotine isn't one of the SIXTY known carcinogens in cigarettes.

"Pipe and cigar smokers often wave off worries that smoking is bad for their health. They claim their habit is harmless and perpetuate the common misperception that pipes and cigars are somehow safer than cigarettes. In reality, these tobacco products carry the same health risks as cigarettes."
https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/effects-of-smoking-pipes-and-cigars

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
24. Sorry, but that makes no sense
Mon May 3, 2021, 04:28 AM
May 2021

If you are talking about “physically addictive” properties, you are talking about addiction. And there is no “we”. I didn’t bring it up or allude to it in any way. If you want to talk about addiction you are on a different subject from what I was discussing as is the webmd article you just drug in.

I wasn’t speaking to the hazards of the substance itself, addiction, or pretty much anything else you are discussing, but rather the properties of moderation. You seem less interested in that and want to bring up all sorts of tangential subjects and suggest you are contradicting me when you aren’t even really discussing the same thing.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
25. Literally nothing you just typed is accurate
Mon May 3, 2021, 11:28 AM
May 2021

If you want to believe, in spite of all evidence, that "moderate" smoking is risk free, that's your prerogative as an adult. It isn't remotely true but I'm done banging my head against this particular wall.

gipper66

(56 posts)
16. Sounds Patronizing and Racist
Sat May 1, 2021, 10:18 PM
May 2021

Menthol cigarettes are very popular with African Americans. You want to ban a product because it will improve health outcomes for an ethnic group? Sounds patronizing like the white power structure knows better than the consumers of the product. If it is outlawed then African Americans will be targeted for enforcement. Bad policy.
Less controversial to just ban all cigarettes.

doc03

(35,146 posts)
19. How did prohibition work out? Just because I don't smoke cigarettes doesn't
Sun May 2, 2021, 08:32 AM
May 2021

give me the right tell other people what to do. People make their choices it is not the governments job
to run our lives. You outlaw cigarettes some people will still get them even if they grow the
tobacco in their back yard. What are we going to do fill up prisons with people caught in the
possession of a cigarette now?

zanana1

(6,084 posts)
26. Yes, it's a stupid idea.
Mon May 3, 2021, 08:00 PM
May 2021

This sounds like something out of The Onion. It is a threat to freedom. I don't smoke anymore, but I stand with the menthol cigarette smokers of America!

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Video & Multimedia»Ban On Menthol Cigarettes...