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Sat May 1, 2021, 03:20 PM

Ban On Menthol Cigarettes Could 'Solve A Fundamental Problem' In The U.S., Says Surgeon General

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Reply Ban On Menthol Cigarettes Could 'Solve A Fundamental Problem' In The U.S., Says Surgeon General (Original post)
IronLionZion May 2021 OP
Hugh_Lebowski May 2021 #1
IronLionZion May 2021 #2
stopdiggin May 2021 #3
doc03 May 2021 #4
qazplm135 May 2021 #5
doc03 May 2021 #6
qazplm135 May 2021 #12
doc03 May 2021 #18
qazplm135 May 2021 #21
Major Nikon May 2021 #9
qazplm135 May 2021 #13
Hugh_Lebowski May 2021 #11
qazplm135 May 2021 #14
Shermann May 2021 #7
cab67 May 2021 #8
Major Nikon May 2021 #10
qazplm135 May 2021 #15
Major Nikon May 2021 #17
qazplm135 May 2021 #20
Major Nikon May 2021 #22
qazplm135 May 2021 #23
Major Nikon May 2021 #24
qazplm135 May 2021 #25
gipper66 May 2021 #16
doc03 May 2021 #19
zanana1 May 2021 #26

Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 03:33 PM

1. The problem of 'cigarettes not properly tasting like scalded goats ass'

would probably be solved.

So there's that.

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Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #1)

Sat May 1, 2021, 03:47 PM

2. I smoked once in my life and hated it

the smell is repulsive to me

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Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #1)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:07 PM

3. there IS that. snort.

----- --- --- -----

just remembering ... who the f*ck ... ? vile!

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:27 PM

4. Some people like to smoke and are going to be

very angry over it. We should be free to smoke what we want. I quit cigarettes back in 1981 myself but it is not any of my business what other people smoke.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #4)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:32 PM

5. Sure it is

If the product is deceptively advertised, targeted at minorities, produces second hand smoke that can harm others including the children of smokers, and causes society massive healthcare costs.

Then yeah, it can and should be regulated. Now should smoking be banned and criminalized? No. But if government wants to disincentivize or limit particular types, no problem.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #5)

Sat May 1, 2021, 04:52 PM

6. Restaraunts give people to big a serving of food. A

Big Mac has too much fat content. Soda pop has too much sugar, ice cream is loaded with fat. All that stuff causes obesity and diabeties killing people before their time which harms their family and drives up health care costs. We gone to make that illegal too. Let people run their own life and make their own choices.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #6)

Sat May 1, 2021, 08:59 PM

12. There's no such thing

As second hand diabetes.

Food isn't inherently bad for you, too much is

Tobacco is inherently bad with no redeeming qualities health wise.

Comparing food and tobacco isn't an intellectually honest comparison.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #12)

Sun May 2, 2021, 08:20 AM

18. How did banning alcohol work out? I bet that many of the same people that

want to make it illegal to smoke tobacco at the same time want to legalize marijuana.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #18)

Sun May 2, 2021, 12:58 PM

21. Literally no one here

Said anything about banning cigarettes. I literally said the opposite in the comment just above in a comment to you that you replied to.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #5)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:26 PM

9. Slippery slope

It’s all good till they come after your vices. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where everything bad for you is banned or regulated out of business.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #9)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:00 PM

13. Slippery slope arguments

Are lazy and not compelling.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #5)

Sat May 1, 2021, 07:49 PM

11. I mean, sure, if They want to 'limit the particular type' that almost all African Americans prefer

(if they use said product) ... And not the touch the 'particular type' that is most popular with white folks, who are we to complain?

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Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #11)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:02 PM

14. The type

That is popular with AA which I am one of is the type specifically designed to hook people of color.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:47 PM

7. I'm all about science

But you can't approach this one scientifically. There are way too many cultural aspects tangled around it.

This hornet nest is best left un-kicked in my opinion.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:05 PM

8. Tobacco is the only legally-available product that will harm you if used as intended.

Fatty food and alcohol aren't necessarily good, but they aren't harmful if used in moderation.

Tobacco will harm you whether it's used in moderation or not.

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Response to cab67 (Reply #8)

Sat May 1, 2021, 07:14 PM

10. Not as true as you might think

The idea that moderate alcohol consumption has no risks or is good for you is being challenged and is no longer considered solid ground. There’s just not that much data on infrequent use of alcohol or tobacco.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #10)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:04 PM

15. You'd be hard pressed

To find any study that says one drink a day is worse than one cigarette, but certainly both are separate from food as to the balance between needs and harms for sure.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #15)

Sun May 2, 2021, 07:10 AM

17. The studies that determine risk for less of either are non-existent

I average at most one drink per week and there’s times when I go months without any. The same is true for my tobacco use. I smoke a pipe, but I only do so on my back porch in the spring and fall when the weather is nice and sometimes not even then. To me that is moderation. One drink or one smoke per day, while not very much, is still regular use of either.

We do know that for smoking or alcohol use, the less you do the lower your risk factor. It stands to reason at some point infrequent enough use has to drop to the level of risk to a non user. The problem being it’s very difficult to study such things.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #17)

Sun May 2, 2021, 12:57 PM

20. One, your use is hardly the norm

Second, there is not a single study touting the benefits of smoking once a day.

There's at least some studies that show possible benefits to occasional drinking, whether you think then disputed notwithstanding. I don't do either by the way so I have no bias towards drinking.

Third, nicotine is actually physically addictive and highly so. There is a component of physical addiction in alcohol but it's less so.

You want to defend your use of both, and that's understandable. I don't propose that you be barred from either or anyone else or either be criminalized. But that doesn't change that cigarette smoking very often captures those nearby in second hand smoke particularly children, or that you can't compare smoking to food and I'd argue it's worse overall than alcohol.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #20)

Sun May 2, 2021, 08:53 PM

22. One, I never claimed it was

But perhaps you know what the norm is for pipe smokers. I certainly don't. What I do know is all the pipe smokers I know do not smoke every day or even close to it. The same goes for all the cigar smokers I know. Both categories of smokers are far more likely to moderate their smoking to less, but the existing studies are limited to those who smoke far more. So how does any study which concerns far higher use relate? Perhaps not at all.

Second, whether or not there are or aren't studies you mentioned is not the same as a study which claims smoking will harm you regardless of how you use it. The key word is "possible" which also means the reverse is possible which other studies show.

Third, any claim that alcohol is more or less addictive than nicotine is opinion based, not fact based. Both routinely top the short lists of addictive drugs with either coming out ahead. Nicotine is also not a carcinogen while beverage alcohol most certainly is. So while I didn't even mention addiction (which certainly leads to something other than moderate use), either of those aren't categorically equal to the other.

I'm not defending either, so if that's what you got out of what I wrote you misunderstood. I fully understand there may be increased risk of mortality from very infrequent use of either, but it's also quite possible there may not.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #22)

Mon May 3, 2021, 12:50 AM

23. I didn't talk about "addiction"

I talked about physically addictive, as in the physical characteristics. There are also psychological addictions of which alcohol is near the top. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking purely about the physical effects of nicotine (not to mention the various OTHER toxic components of tobacco).

But you tell me how you think any study will find a safe level of:

Benzene
Formaldehyde
Vinyl Chloride
Arsenic
Cadmium
Ammonia
Nicotine
Hydrogen cyanide

No, nicotine isn't one of the SIXTY known carcinogens in cigarettes.

"Pipe and cigar smokers often wave off worries that smoking is bad for their health. They claim their habit is harmless and perpetuate the common misperception that pipes and cigars are somehow safer than cigarettes. In reality, these tobacco products carry the same health risks as cigarettes."
https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/effects-of-smoking-pipes-and-cigars

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #23)

Mon May 3, 2021, 04:28 AM

24. Sorry, but that makes no sense

If you are talking about “physically addictive” properties, you are talking about addiction. And there is no “we”. I didn’t bring it up or allude to it in any way. If you want to talk about addiction you are on a different subject from what I was discussing as is the webmd article you just drug in.

I wasn’t speaking to the hazards of the substance itself, addiction, or pretty much anything else you are discussing, but rather the properties of moderation. You seem less interested in that and want to bring up all sorts of tangential subjects and suggest you are contradicting me when you aren’t even really discussing the same thing.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #24)

Mon May 3, 2021, 11:28 AM

25. Literally nothing you just typed is accurate

If you want to believe, in spite of all evidence, that "moderate" smoking is risk free, that's your prerogative as an adult. It isn't remotely true but I'm done banging my head against this particular wall.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 10:18 PM

16. Sounds Patronizing and Racist

Menthol cigarettes are very popular with African Americans. You want to ban a product because it will improve health outcomes for an ethnic group? Sounds patronizing like the white power structure knows better than the consumers of the product. If it is outlawed then African Americans will be targeted for enforcement. Bad policy.
Less controversial to just ban all cigarettes.

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Response to gipper66 (Reply #16)

Sun May 2, 2021, 08:32 AM

19. How did prohibition work out? Just because I don't smoke cigarettes doesn't

give me the right tell other people what to do. People make their choices it is not the governments job
to run our lives. You outlaw cigarettes some people will still get them even if they grow the
tobacco in their back yard. What are we going to do fill up prisons with people caught in the
possession of a cigarette now?

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Response to gipper66 (Reply #16)

Mon May 3, 2021, 08:00 PM

26. Yes, it's a stupid idea.

This sounds like something out of The Onion. It is a threat to freedom. I don't smoke anymore, but I stand with the menthol cigarette smokers of America!

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