Hospital Sues At-Will Workers for Getting Better Jobs

[Quemado]

Steve Lehto, a lawyer in the state of Michigan, and YouTuber, did a video about this story. I encourage you to watch it:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/what-to-know-about-the-battle-over-fox-valley-health-care-workers-now-playing-out-in-court/ar-AAT1za7

APPLETON - It was unclear whether a group of former ThedaCare employees would be allowed to start their new jobs at Ascension Northeast Wisconsin Monday after lawyers for both health systems made their first appearance in court Friday morning.

The uncertainty is the latest development in a battle over health care employees that began late Thursday and is now playing out in court. It comes as staff shortages strain health systems nationwide — nearly one in five health care workers have quit their jobs since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.

ThedaCare requested Thursday that an Outagamie County judge temporarily block seven of its employees who had applied for and accepted jobs at Ascension from beginning work there on Monday until the health system could find replacements for them.

The employees were part of an 11-member interventional radiology and cardiovascular team, which can perform procedures to stop bleeding in targeted areas during a traumatic injury or restore blood flow to the brain in the case of a stroke. Each of them were employed at-will, meaning they were not under an obligation to stay at ThedaCare for a certain amount of time.

Outagamie County Circuit Court Judge Mark McGinnis granted ThedaCare's request and held an initial hearing Friday morning. The case will get a longer hearing at 10 a.m. Monday.

[Sanity Claws]

1. That's crazy

Why doesn’t at will employment apply evenly to both sides?
Before I read the article, I thought there must be a covenant not to compete but there wasn’t.

[Effete Snob]

2. At will does apply evenly

All of the employees can quit their jobs.

The suit is not being accurately described, because the actual lawsuit is not as interesting.

The first thing worth understanding is that the suit is not against the employees. The suit is against the other hospital, and claims that the other hospital engaged in unlawful recruiting methods and misappropriation of competitive information in order to engage in unfair competition.

I have no opinion about the merits of the underlying suit, but it is not about whether the employees have the right to quit their jobs and work somewhere else. They do have that right. However, competitors are not allowed to misappropriate proprietary data in order to compete. That’s what the suit is actually about.

[keithbvadu2]

5. The suit is that employees cannot change jobs for new employment.

The suit is that employees cannot change jobs for new employment.

"temporarily block seven of its employees who had applied for and accepted jobs at Ascension from beginning work there on Monday until the health system could find replacements for them. "

[Effete Snob]

6. The suit is not against the employees

The suit is an unfair competition suit brought by one hospital against the other hospital alleging unlawful recruiting practices.

Ascension is hiring the entire unit from the plaintiff, and they are saying it is simply a coincidence that all the employees in that unit just happened to respond to an employment ad.

The employees are not even parties to the suit. The subject line of the OP is misleading and incorrect. You can tell by reading the post:

——

APPLETON - It was unclear whether a group of former ThedaCare employees would be allowed to start their new jobs at Ascension Northeast Wisconsin Monday after lawyers for both health systems made their first appearance in court Friday morning.

——

Notice how it says “lawyers for both health systems”? Notice how it doesn’t mention anything about the employees or their lawyers being in court?

That’s your first clue the OP subject line is false. The lawsuit is not against the employees.

[Sanity Claws]

7. There is no compete

If there had been a non-compete clause, then your explanation would make sense. However there was none. The court seems to be implying one.

[Effete Snob]

8. That's irrelevant

It’s not about the employees. It’s not about the lack of a non-compete clause, since they don’t have contracts in the first place.

This is a lawsuit between two hospitals. It is an unfair competition lawsuit. That uses the word “compete” but not in the sense of a non-compete contract.

Unfair competition is an area of law that includes a bunch of different things that businesses are not allowed to do - like trademark infringement, theft of trade secrets, and so on. The plaintiff hospital is suing the defendant hospital alleging that the defendant hospital used unfair methods of recruiting the entire staff of one of the plaintiff’s units.

The defendant hospital is saying that all of the employees just happened to respond to an advertisement - all of them, by coincidence. The judge apparently does not believe that.

I didn’t say anything about the employees having a non-compete clause, because that’s not what this suit is even about.

[Sanity Claws]

10. I see it very differently from you

Maybe you know more about the facts than I saw in the article.

[Effete Snob]

11. This article may flesh it out better

https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/thedacare-files-lawsuit-to-keep-employees-from-leaving-for-ascension/


NEENAH, Wis. (WFRV) – ThedaCare is trying to get a court order to temporarily keep some of its employees from leaving to Ascension, after Ascension hired a ‘majority’ of its 11-member interventional radiology and cardiovascular team.

ThedaCare announced that they have filed for a temporary injunction in Outagamie County Circuit Court against Ascension Wisconsin.

Note: “against Ascension” - the suit has not been filed against the employees, but against a competing hospital which hired most of the employees in one unit, all at the same time.

Continuing…

“We understand and respect that people have choices in the current highly competitive job market. The decision by Ascension Wisconsin to hire away such a significant portion of ThedaCare’s interventional radiology specialty support team all at once, and at the height of a pandemic surge, will disrupt access to critical care for the people in our region.”

…

The other hospital claims:

“ Contrary to the allegations in the ThedaCare lawsuit, Ascension Wisconsin did not initiate the recruitment of the ThedaCare employees. Rather, the employees applied for open job postings. ”

The judge, after hearing arguments from both of them, was apparently not inclined to believe that most of the employees in a single unit all just happened to apply at Ascension at the same time.

But, for whatever reason, this dispute is being mischaracterizes here and on other social media (where I had seen it earlier) as the hospital going after the employees. They aren’t suing the employees. They are claiming that the other hospital engaged in a recruiting operation designed to kneecap a competitor. Whether or not that happened is yet to be seen, but the court apparently thought there was enough to it to order the parties to work something out.

[dsc]

12. I get that companies can't interfere with contracts and can't illegally recruit employees

but I fail to see how either of these happened here, and wonder about a need to mitigate, even if it did. The fact is, undisputed, that the 2nd hospital offered a better deal to the workers then the first one did. It is also undisputed that there were no contracts but at will employment, and no non compete clause is being mentioned. So, I don't see why, even if they did target those employees (who have a specialized skill) how on earth the first hospital was able to get this order issued. The first hospital had an easy mitigation strategy, offer the same deal to those employees that the 2nd hospital did. They willfully chose, solely on the basis of cost, not to do that. While this is dressed up as suing the 2nd hospital, it is, in reality, trying to make those workers only have one option to offer their labor to, if they don't wish to move. This is nothing short of outrageous and frankly those workers should get damages of 10 times their wages for every day this order stays in effect to be split between the first hospital and this corrupt judge.

[Demovictory9]

15. similar stuff happens at research universities... other univ will poach an entire research team

[Quakerfriend]

3. That would be nice!

“at will” employment has shattered our labor laws.
It essentially allows the employer to do anything they want. I wish Bernie would speak to this problem.

[RainCaster]

4. Don't waste your time on the video

I sat through that whole video waiting to learn something new about this case. It never happened. Typical lawyer, lots of talk with no substance.

[keithbvadu2]

9. Travel nurse

My friend (RN) took a job as a travel nurse, 13 weeks, up in northern Maine, about a half inch from the Canadian border. 2300 taxable per week plus 1400 non-taxable for lodging and meals. It's in a nursing home, three days of 12-hour shifts. That's what the employment company is paying, so figure that the nursing home is paying them even more than that. She hasn't started yet but it was 31 degrees below this week. With the winter weather, she may not make it back home to lower NE on some weekends. If you have some young relatives who want a career, recommend nursing. There will always be jobs for nurses and many other jobs in the medical field. My nephew got his RN in his 40s long after doing 5 years in the Navy and various jobs. The biggest, most squeamish comment I hear when recommending nursing is that "I can't handle dealing with blood." Can you deal with a good paycheck and
good benefits? The human body is not pretty or modest in the hospital. We are a mammal... Period... Two people that you can't gross out are nurses and nursing home workers. One time, when I had major surgery, I had an embarrassing situation with the catheter. Some folks thought it was too personal to even discuss. The nurses on my email list just laughed at this poor, embarrassed male and his tale of woe. Not one shred of sympathy.

[Quemado]

13. UPDATE: Judge Lifts Hospital TRO!

&t=10s

[Eugene]

14. ThedaCare drops its lawsuit against Ascension Wisconsin

ThedaCare drops its lawsuit against Ascension Wisconsin

In a statement Friday, Andrabi said ThedaCare has brought on “new team members, agency nurses and technologists,” provided additional training to more employees, and partnered with other area health care systems. Andrabi wrote, “We have never diverted a trauma patient in the 32-year history of our Trauma program, and have been able to safely provide the critical care our communities depend upon.”

https://www.wbay.com/2022/01/28/thedacare-drops-its-lawsuit-against-ascension-wisconsin/