If the god of the bible exists, I guess I'm going to hell, because

[Bertha Venation]

in more than one thread today I have said that that god is fucked up.

[harmonicon]

1. A god of the bible exists, but it's not the god of Abraham.

The god from the bible that's real is the golden calf.

Mmmm... golden calf.

[hedgehog]

41. People forget that Abraham bargained with G-dod, several times.

It's also pointed out that G-d let Abraham think he'd won, when he received what G-d had wanted to give him in the first place!

[LNM]

2. I'll be joining you, Bertha

I've been saying that for years.

[Wait Wut]

3. Yeah, well...

...we'll see ya there. I think just being in The Lounge breaks 5 of the 10 commandments. Commenting, 7 out of 10. Posting a thread gets you your own parking space.

[bluesbassman]

5. Yeah, and...

posting a poll gets you a monogrammed handbasket.

[Wait Wut]

6. Really??

I want one.

Now I gotta think of a poll cause I got the coolest initials ever. SAS or SAM depending on which name I go by.

I always wondered about that saying, "Going to hell in a handbasket." Who's carrying it and why is a handbasket supposed to be a bad thing? When I was little, I always pictured some little girl carrying a handbasket full of flowers skipping throug a field. Probably why I made a lousy Christian.

[bluesbassman]

8. Here you go...

[Bertha Venation]

10. That looks like something you'd see in the Doo-Dah Parade.

Love it!

[Wait Wut]

18. See how happy she is?

There is just no 'evil' or negativity in the phrase. It should be "Going to hell in a dog crate on Romney's roof" or sumthin'.

[OriginalGeek]

27. I've never been so sad to be starless

Mrs Geek and I were planning to get bikes soon. A monogrammed handbasket to hell would have tricked mine out just perfect.

[Major Nikon]

4. Satan of the bible killed only 10 people

God of the bible killed 2.47 million and those are only those which can be counted in the bible. The real total is undoubtedly several times higher.

Regarding the 10 that Satan killed God dared him to do it, so God should at least share part of the blame for even those.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/who-has-killed-more-satan-or-god.html

[Wait Wut]

7. BLASPHEMY!!!

ALERTED FOR PROMOTING TEH EVIL AND MAKING SATAN TEH GOOD!!!!! God is teh GOOD!!!!

or sumthin'.

DISCLAIMER: No offense meant to you cute as a button Christianites we have on DU. This is totally just a tongue-in-cheek slam against the Christianites with no sense of humor and suffer from logic impairment. Like those guys -----------> (FReakville)

[KamaAina]

9. Some Dead for you and teh kittehs

[nolabear]

17. + a brazillion. Enjoying the ride!

(If I had a little Dead Bear smilie I'd post it here).

[HarveyDarkey]

24. Feel free to use this one any time

[Bertha Venation]

22. Oh, yeah...

As in oohhhhhh, yyyeeeeeaaahhhhh.

Thanks, my friend.

[HopeHoops]

11. If there IS a hell, I bought a ticket a LOOOOONNNGGG time ago.

[Dystopian]

26. That is so very wrong.

Shame on you!



I got mine for free!


peace~

[HopeHoops]

31. Dang. Did you have a coupon or something?

[TrogL]

12. Discussion topic - Can you forgive God?

[Bertha Venation]

16. Good one.

I have forgiven those who have done me major harm. I'll have to think about this.

I have an easy out: I am an atheist. But I'm only a part-time atheist; I am a part-time agnostic. So I can't let myself off the hook.

Part of me believes there is a god. I just don't think it's the god of the bible, the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the "father" of Jesus Christ.

[Wait Wut]

19. Same here.

It's as close to a logical argument 'for' faith as I can get. I can't disprove it, so it 'may' exist. I don't need it, so I don't need to follow it. Sometimes, I like the idea of it, so I will occasionally follow it. "It" being my own illogical faith.

Steve Jobs said it better: "I think different religions are doors to the same house. Sometimes I think the house exists, and sometimes I don't. It's the great mystery."

[Bertha Venation]

23. we're in the same club, then

[Taverner]

43. "If god existed, it would be necesarry to abolish him." -- Mikhail Bakunin

[LynneSin]

13. I think God recognizes that what is fucked up...

is the shit that people do in God's name!

So unless you ran over a litter of baby puppies with your gas guzzling SUV while shooting target practice on the poeple you pass - my guess is that you'll end up someplace nice in the afterworld!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

14. Looks like I picked the wrong day to go target shooting....

and I was so close.

[Arugula Latte]

15. I don't believe in god/s, but I do like this quote from Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

[hunter]

29. Everybody dies. Everybody suffers.

The only question is, can you tell a good story when you reach the end of your universe?

Three men are waiting for the train to the Pearly Gates when it pulls into the station. Apparently it's been a busy day, the train is full, and Saint Patrick the conductor tells the men they're only admitting people who've had particularly horrible deaths.

He asks the first man, "So what's your story?"

The first man replies: "Well, for awhile I've suspected my wife's cheating, so today I came home early to try to catch her red-handed. As I come into my apartment I know something's wrong, my wife's in the shower and the clothes on the floor aren't mine. But all my searching I can't find the guy. Finally, I go out on the balcony, and sure enough, there's this guy in his underpants hanging off the railing, 25 floors above ground! By now I'm really mad, so I start beating on him and kicking him, but wouldn't you know it, he won't fall off."

So I go back into my apartment, get a hammer, and start hammering on his fingers. Of course he couldn't stand that for long, so he let's go and falls -- but he lands in the bushes, stunned but okay. I can't stand it anymore, so I run into the kitchen, grab the refrigerator and throw it over the railing after him. But then I have a heart attack and here I am."

"That sounds like a pretty bad day to me," says Patrick, rolling his eyes as he lets the man onto the train.

Patrick asks the second man for his story.

"It's been a very strange day. You see, I live on the 26th floor of my apartment building, and every morning I do my exercises out on my balcony. Well, this morning I slipped and fell over the railing. But then I got lucky and caught the railing of the balcony on the floor below me. I knew I couldn't hang on for very long, when suddenly this guy bursts out onto the balcony. I thought for sure I was saved! But then he started beating on me and kicking me. I managed to hold on until he ran into the apartment and grabbed a hammer and started pounding on my hands. Finally I just let go, but I got lucky and fell into the bushes below, stunned, but okay. Just when I was thinking I was going to be all right, this refrigerator comes falling out of the sky. And, now here I am."

Patrick does a face palm and waves the man onto the train.

Patrick then looks to the third man.

"OK, picture this," the third man says, "I'm hiding naked inside a refrigerator...."

[Honeycombe8]

20. If you're an agnostic, why take chances? Tempting fate, they call it. If you're an atheist,

you have nothing to worry about.

If you believe in God, better start asking for forgiveness! You could get hit by a bus and get stuck with all those blasphemies attached to your soul!

[PassingFair]

25. What's the difference between an agnostic and an atheist.

If the definition of A-Theism means: without god beliefs.


You either believe in a god or gods or you don't.

A-gnostic means: without knowledge of god

[RegieRocker]

28. That is not the definition of an agnostic

This is
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Big difference between an atheist and agnostic. Huge!

[Honeycombe8]

30. An agnostic has the position that they don't know for sure either way.

There could be a God, or maybe not. I guess it also applies to religions other than Christian ones....not sure.

Atheism takes the definitive position that there is no God. Period.

Christians take the definitive position that there is a God. Period.

[RegieRocker]

32. Many confused people don't get what an Agnostic is

you do however. Some claim to be one and they are not.

[OriginalGeek]

34. not in my world

I am an agnostic - I don't know if there is a god or gods.
I am an atheist - I do not believe there are any gods. That is nowhere near the same thing as taking a definitive position that there are no gods. I can't say that if I don;t know it. But I don't believe there are. Should some new evidence come to light in favor of the existence of any gods, I'd reconsider my belief.

The two terms are not mutually exclusive and as I said in the A&A group, everyone is an agnostic. Nobody knows for sure there is a god or gods. But a lot of people do believe it. I am not one of them.

[Honeycombe8]

38. The definitions are not subjective.

a·the·ism
? ?[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.



ag·nos·tic
? ?[ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.

2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

3.
a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality.

******************

Agnosticism is basically acknowledging that the existence of God cannot be "known" or "not known." Therefore, they acknowledge that God may exist, or not. They hold that no one can know for sure, either way. THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM A BELIEF.

[OriginalGeek]

39. I am without knowledge of gods

I am without belief in gods.


Since we are saying the same thing I don't know why we are arguing.

[PassingFair]

40. But the definitions are OBVIOUSLY subjective.

Last edited Sat Jul 21, 2012, 05:36 PM - Edit history (1)

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/a/defining.htm

And most atheists agree on VERY different definitions than believers assign to them.

I am an Atheist AND an Agnostic.

Although "agnostic" is a VERY recent term, mostly used to make non-believers more palatable to believers.

[rurallib]

21. Gonna be one hell of a DU meet up there some day

I hope Satan is barbecueing something good for us.

and we won't have to say grace before we eat.

[turtlerescue1]

33. ahh bait for the liberal Christian.

BerthaVenation, it is not for me to decide if you go to hell or not.

But is there a soul; is it different from "heart"?

The Jesuit Professor crammed Ayn Rand down our throats 'till all of us puked. Now not being bright and quick, it took me a few years of studying Rand, yeah long after I passed the class.
It was in her "For the New Intellectual" that finally one day it slapped me hard enough to earn realization, she had no love. Yeah, that wonderful romantic piece that makes us fools, that makes us heroes and makes life worth the efforts. She loudly proclaimed her atheism, compared religion to "Attila the Hun" or the "Witchdoctor". IMO the teabaggers, many who claim to be Fundies themselves, honor Rand's lack of compassion, respect her unique concept of justice, and applaud her view of acquiring materialistic possessions. There is no appreciation for what is within the human spirit. Every time I hear or read the word "atheism" it is Rand that comes to mind.

Because I am a romantic in heart, soul and spirit, I believe there was "intelligent Design" and that the benefits include free will and free choice- That may be the best of Intelligent Design.

[Bertha Venation]

35. No bait intended, turtlerescue

I read Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, when I was quite immature. I couldn't understand why she had a character fall in love with and have a relationship with the man who raped her. That made me mad. But I wasn't mature enough to understand her politics.

Unfortunately, I have to share the label with her, although I'm just a part-time atheist.

I believe there is a spirit and a soul (and that animals are imbued with both, BTW). But neither of those things has to do with any god or an afterlife. I believe there is no afterlife. (My father was a fundamentalist Christian (as I was until age 23), and after his death, I quipped to my sisters, "well, now he either knows or he doesn't." They found this hilarious. (Also hilarious: actually, I'll save that for another time.))

As for intelligent design, how did the formation of our universe come about? I'm not challenging you with a chip on my shoulder.

[turtlerescue1]

36. One of my favorites

came from an ELCA pastor in Mpls. Many of us were deep into community, at a time when all of us were "adjusting" to gang activities swooping in. One of us was an atheist, and by everything in me, he lived his values better than a whole lot of us Christians. Still he and the Pastor formed a bond, and had debates; arguments and discussions. One day I asked how this was going -of the pastor. It didn't really matter if this person was an atheist, he was a fellow neighbor, activist and decent human. The pastor related his last discussion, went like this:
so the world's scientists come to the Creator and said "We too can make human life appear."
Amused the Creator said "Okay, show me." One scientist says "First you take the dirt...." And the Creator says, "Oh NO, wait a minute you make your OWN dirt!"

Does it matter HOW the formation of our universe came about? Why? When we've made it such an imbalance? Our greed, gluttony and self-indulgence is out of control.

It was from the Native Americans I understood that life is a circle, continuous and in that is security, and likely boredom. Makes sense. What if we break the circle? Chaos.

Hugs to you BerthaVenation

[Bertha Venation]

37. back atcha, turtle

Thanks.

[davsand]

42. I think it is more a matter of our interpretations of God that are fucked up.

Bertha, if the fate of mens souls rests solely on buying into traditional Christianity as it is taught by many I'm thinking that hell is gonna be a pretty well populated place. I probably will end up in a condo overlooking the lake of fire if what "they all" say is true... Nobody knows for sure and I reckon that is why it is called "faith."

Take a hard look at all the major faiths out there and there's a commonality to them all. Some call it a "truth." In any major religion, some of it makes sense to me--like treating each other with compassion and love--and some of it rings as complete and utter bullshit put forth to control and dictate behaviors for a large group of people. As individuals only we can decide what works for us and what doesn't. My 15 year old--freshly returned from a missionary trip to the Lake Traverse Indian Reservation--made the comment that she's ready to look for a church with "more loving and less smiting" and I had to agree with her.

I can't say that I look around me and see a lack of the divine. We all carry it and I see it in the kindness and love that folks exhibit every day. I see it in the pure love that our animal friends gift us with, and I see it in the amazing colors of a sunset. I've never questioned my own ability to be a positive force or a most malignant one--I figure that it's up to me to decide how I will choose to be--it all comes down to free will.

I've seen you in action here on DU for a very long time and I have to to ever see you act in a way that I felt was hurtful or counter to the best of our collective ability to be. Find your peace in whatever you can--be it your fur kids, your wife, your gardens or your friends. Know you are loved and beloved. I highly doubt you'll ever be hanging in hell, but IF you do you will always have a place to come and hang with me. If YOU are going I'm right there with you.





Laura

[Bertha Venation]

44. We'll live in the same condo building.

I wish I could be as eloquent in thanking you for this post as you were in writing it.

[davsand]

45. You were.

Laura