What (and how) I learned about the ugliness of nationalism:

[MiddleFingerMom]

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I learned a basic and lifelong lesson about the ugliness of nationalism, oddly enough, during my
first night in the Army. Our bus got to our Basic Training post at Ft Knox, KY shortly after midnight.
The drill sergeants yelled us out of the bus and into our barracks, got us all next to a bed in that
small two-story structure and told us that we should grab what sleep we could as 4 AM was going
to arrive all too early. Then they left.
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They came back soon enough, as some of the guys on the 1st floor (none of whom knew each other
until arriving at that building) got into a serious rumble with some of the guys on the 2nd floor (none
of whom knew each other until arriving at that building) about who had the "best floor".
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In the stairwell.
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A freakin' "border war" based on the nationalism of the 1st floor vs the nationalism of the 2nd floor.
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The good news is that I didn't run into that again in all of the six years that I was in -- but it taught
me a very important lesson about the ridiculousness that can be inherent in "nationalistic pride".
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[lastlib]

1. "Nationalism is an infantile disease....

...It is the measles of mankind." --Einstein??

[MiddleFingerMom]

4. It was Einstein in 1929.

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You would probably like wikiquote.org
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http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nationalism
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[elleng]

2. 'US' vs 'THEM,'

part of the human condition, I'm afraid.

[MiddleFingerMom]

7. It certainly is pervasive at all levels, but I still like to cling to the idea...

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... (and I can never remember whether it's Calvin's or Hobbes' -- not the cartoon characters)
that human beings are noble at heart and only debased by hardships (and, believe it or not --
even the 1% have hardships -- sometimes I think it can be as basic as being in the 1% enabled
them to become assholes and, at heart... secretly... they're very ashamed of that) rather than
base creatures only ennobled by reward.
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Call me MiddleFingerPollyannaMom -- oops, I just claimed yet another letter as part of one of
my acronyms.
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[elleng]

8. Luv you, MFPaM!!!

Actually I suspect it derives from survival of the species, so its probably more widespread than HomoSapiens.

[rhett o rick]

3. I learned about it in high school. When I was in grade school we would go to the community center

and there would always be guys there from other grade schools. I remember thinking how good we were and how hateful they were. But then when in high school I ran into the same guys and they were ok and we all hated the other high schools. Hmmm.

Sports promotes nationalism.

[MiddleFingerMom]

9. I believe that about sports. It shouldn't... but it does.

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Even the Olympics, which should be (and ARE, to many of the athletes themselves) a manifestation
of the excellence to which human beings can aspire, are made ugly by things like Russian judges
lowballing other countries' athletes and fans chanting U.S.A, U.S.A, U.S.A, U.S.A. over and over
and over again in a mindless hive mantra.
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I like to watch the athletes "off-court" -- sometimes as much as on -- for the examples of
friendship and camaraderie most of them display with all their "competitors".
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While many of them are devastated by their losses, they can feel that sadness and still tell
the winner, "You were AWESOME."
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[rhett o rick]

12. You bring up a good point. Athletes themselves are not particularly "nationalistic".

I use that term because I dont know what the word is that represents similar devotion to a team in lieu of nation.

While the fans can generate intense rivalries, the athletes often dont take it to that level. Having respect for the efforts of their competitors.

[Populist_Prole]

5. A lot of cliques and sports fans are that way too

I've never "been in the service" myself but in my life I've met multitudes that have. One thing, among others, that was really apparent to me was inter-service rivalry. I've seen shouting and shoving matches to derisive talk delivered through clenched teeth about who's branch of service was better. I couldn't believe how passionate some were about it.

For the longest time I though the next war would be between the services; and not on some playing field either.

[MiddleFingerMom]

6. When I was in, some of the branches were like that -- but the guys I knew and hung with...

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... were more like, well -- have you ever seen "Cannery Row" with Nick Nolte and
Debra Winger? (In my top 5 books and in my top 5 movies.)
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We were more like the sailors who got in a brawl with the townies until they were
all tuckered out and then just drank together like the oldest and best of friends.
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Except we ALWAYS skipped the brawling part.
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[dorkulon]

10. Great post.

The one thing I may find most despicable about humans. People beat each other to death over which sports team they support. Animals.

[Archaic]

11. Territories, by Rush.

They shoot without shame in the name of a piece of dirt
For a change of accent or the color of your shirt
Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled

An excellent song, by an excellent band.

[MiddleFingerMom]

13. E.M. Forster, 1879-1970, the English novelist who wrote...

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... "A Passage to India", "Howard's End" and "A Room with a View", said, "I hate the idea of causes,
and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have
the guts to betray my country."
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I think I would have liked him.
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