Violence. I need serious advice, please.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Not exactly Lounge stuff, I know, but GD seemed out of place too and the gungeon would just tell me to shoot the bastards.

I'm depressed to the point of tears. Have been since Friday night.

I'm married to the sweetest man ever. The gentlest man ever. Make no mistake. But I saw a side of him that simultaneously left me terrified, amazed, excited, proud and ashamed.

The back story is my best friend from collage is gay. We were inseparable. Much of that changed when I married just like he said it would. It's not my husband's fault. He and by BF are good friends in their own right. They're big clowns when they're together and I adore just watching them. Still, married life is married life and I don't see my BF as much anymore.

Friday me and hubby made it a point to see my BF because he's had a few bad relationships lately and the happily married couple wanted to be around to cheer him up and give him hope or at least share some good laughs. We even went to the coffee house we all hung out at in our single days. We were having an awesome time.

My BF got up and went outside to have a cigarette and take a phone call. Two guys in the coffee house followed him out and confronted him. They started calling him the usual hideous slurs and pushed him.

My husband saw it all through the window. He exploded out of his chair, burst through the door and shoved the nearest one so hard the guy flew into the hood of a parked truck and crumpled. The second one backpeddled before my husband could hit him.

My husband is no softie; he makes his living lugging around deisel machinery. One day, months ago I walked up behind him and put my hands around one of his arms as he went to move it, not knowing I was there. He all but hurled me across the garage giving me a whiplash and landing me on my butt several feet away. He was very apologetic and scared he had hurt me but if he can toss 100 pounds without a thought you get an idea what he can do when he actually means it.

The guy he shoved was really kind of messed up; scuffed, bleeding and disoriented. The cops came while everyone was still screaming their taunts. The coffee house manager sided with us and my BF agreed to not press charges against the assholes if the assholes didn't press charges against my husband. My BF even told the cops my husband might have PTSD (which pissed off my husband when he heard about it) but one of the cops was also a vet so I think there was a military discount, IYKWIMAITYD.

BTW -- the cops were cool. They sensed which side started everything and had a sort of "you had it coming" attitude with the assholes. They appeared to be checking, re-checking and re-re-checking everybody's story until they had a rationale not to arrest my husband. Still, for a long while I was afraid I was going to have to call my dad to help me with the bail even though the cops appeared very reluctant to arrest him.

I saw my husband threaten to kick someone's ass once while we were still dating and that was scary. This was outright terrifying. I know he was defending my BF and I love him for that. And that's the part that makes me ashamed. I WANTED to see him fuck those guys up. I wanted that cowardly son of bitch to stand still long enough for my husband to land a shot and then pummel the bastard into a pulp. I wanted to be more than 100 lbs (OK, 105) so I could hit them too.

I'm depressed and literally feel sick about this and it's effected how I treat my husband. I've tried telling him it's not his fault but he obviously blames himself. It's me I'm having trouble with, not him. How do I reconcile my sudden glee of seeing another human being suffer with a morality that tells me that desiring harm is so absolutely wrong? For so many years I sat in judgment of others who hated this group or that as if they had no claims; if they wanted to do violence to others and that was enough to diminish them in my eyes. In the gungeon where I've been arguing pro-2A I've always felt a tinge of sadness when criminals have been shot in mid-crime even though I'm relieved the would-be victim prevailed. And yet, there I was Friday night reveling in the terror of seeing another man slam into something so hard he went down like a ragdoll.

Sometimes I wish my husband was a "less physical" man so I could say, "There, there, dear; there's nothing we could do." To be weak seems to be safe; to have an excuse for not acting, for hiding until the cops arrive. But then I think of my BF being hurt and I want the fuckers to suffer all over again.

I am such a hypocrite. I always said chest-thumping, war-mongering tribalism was bad -- until it was my tribe being fucked with -- and then I wanted bloody, bloody violence. I wanted those assholes to suffer so bad they never want to gay-bash or anything else like it ever again.

I keep trying to push it out of my mind. I try to act like its not there, but it keeps gnawing. I'm in tears. I don't even know who I am any more.

Please help me figure all of this out.

[alphafemale]

1. I think your friend is very lucky he had a kickass guardian angel that night.

It could have ended with your friend in a hospital or casket.

And I think your husband used about the right amount of force. He didn't keep up the force once the threat was subdued.

And yes. Hopefully these bully punks will think twice before attacking someone they see as an easy target.

[elleng]

2. Sorry you feel so conflicted, Unic.

Your husband did the RIGHT thing, by any reasonable standards. The a**holes forced you all into this bind. You feel bad because it's violence, which we abhor.

Your husband performed a reasonable defense of someone otherwise incapable of defending himself, society approves of this, and I cheer it. This is not 'desiring harm,' it is a form of self-defense.

If there's a reasonable clergy-type around, s/he might be able to help you.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

3. You're human.

Give your husband and yourself a break and move past this. You've done the requisite grieving. Why punish your husband for standing up to bullies? So you had a moment of emotion when seeing your friend being targeted by cowards. No one died. Maybe those guys will think twice before they decide to beat up someone who can't fight back.

[kayakjohnny]

4. This was a very intense post to read. Wow. You have a good writing style and a great heart to match.

I see why you are so conflicted, but I think the passage of time will temper the heaviness of this episode. I think the revenge thing is totally human and so is the compassion angle.

You got caught in a situation that was bound to happen. The world can be mean, and it can be forgiving, and also very hard to understand. This is one of those happenings that can possibly teach a great lesson to many people, depending on the people involved.

You have articulated this instance very well, and I wonder how many others have been in a similar spot, wondering where the sweet spot is regarding right and wrong, and considering the condition of this world today.

I really don't have any good advice for you. But you have probably helped or will help other people with this post.

All the best to you and everyone else involved.

This was a tough read for me.

And I think you husband is a good man.

[HopeHoops]

5. It sounds like he did the right thing, and it isn't just a guy thing.

When my eldest was just over 1, we were at the fireworks and some assholes were shooting shit into the sky above the crowd. Nobody (including security) did a damn thing about it. Finally, I got fed up and went down and bitched them out. They ambushed me on the way out, one of them in particular (too much testosterone, not enough brain cells). I had just handed my daughter to my wife when he cold-cocked me from the side, breaking my glasses. I lost my balance because I had a hiking backpack on. He got on top and started pounding me. I just stayed there until he wore himself out but he inexplicably left.

Unknown to me at the time, my wife had handed the kid off to another women, took our 1/2 gallon thermos (still mostly full), and smashed it over the asshole's head. The handle broke so she proceeded to jab him in the side of the head with the two pointed ends of the handle. At first I thought he left because there was a cop coming to investigate the scuffle, but that wasn't it at all.

When you're in the right, sometimes you just need to do what's necessary.

That sounds like exactly what he did, and he was definitely in the right.

[gratuitous]

6. I've been in your husband's shoes

And for the times I've used violence, even in a reflexive, no-time-to-think situation, I've regretted raising my hand to another. Regretted it to the point of nausea, insomnia and worse. Even thinking about situations from years ago, as I'm doing now, I feel miserable. Yeah, in a way, weakness is easier as you said, "an excuse for not acting," but the strength not to fight when you have the strength to fight requires a courage and a discipline that have to be practiced and reinforced every day.

No, your husband failed Friday night, just like I failed in those past situations. There are a skabillion rationalizations, and in this society, everybody will tell you that it's okay, the situation might have worked out far worse, and it was a measured and judicious application of violence. But if your husband is anything like me, it doesn't feel that way. And if he's tuned into you at all, he gets your emotional state as well.

Our society is awash in violence, and we are inundated with the message that might makes right. After all the trouble our culture has gone to instilling those feelings and emotions, it would be nearly miraculous if you didn't want to see some rough "justice" meted out to those bullies who harassed your friend. We like to pretend that advertising (for example) doesn't affect us, our emotions or our choices, but it does. The folks who run those big corporations wouldn't be plunking down so much money to ad agencies if it didn't work. Violence has not only ad agencies, but popular entertainments (from movies to TV shows to video games to books to--well, you get the idea) and real world enactments buttressing its message on a near constant basis.

Talk it out, hug it out, process and re-process, build your relationships, expand your circles, create and maintain your own peace and encourage it in those around you. It's the way we overcome the proprietors of violence.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. I don't think I could bring myself to tell my husband he failed

regardless of my own conflicts. Long story, just suffice it to say, I won't tell him that.

Talk it out, hug it out, process and re-process, build your relationships, expand your circles, create and maintain your own peace and encourage it in those around you.

^ this is my take-away.

[gratuitous]

12. Oops, I didn't mean you should say that to him

But I'd bet a nickel he thinks that himself. I know I think that about myself, and it doesn't matter if someone says something to the contrary, I know I failed.

But you got my intended takeaway exactly right.

[dawg]

7. Don't feel conflicted.

Allow yourself to be human.

Your husband's reaction was almost perfect. Who knows what would have happened to your friend if he had not been there?

[MADem]

8. You have a tender heart.

It's not such a bad thing.

If you can't get past it, and it is affecting your relationship with your spouse....maybe a bit of couples' therapy? Or start out just yourself, alone. Can't hurt.

I think though that you're quite all right--your reactions are appropriate. It's very normal for protective instincts to come to the fore when people close to you are being attacked.

Heck, I wish you were my neighbors, and your husband my best pal--who couldn't use a buddy who can toss a Volkswagen forty feet with one arm?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. "who couldn't use a buddy who can toss a Volkswagen forty feet with one arm?"

Did you just call me overweight? To refresh --

One day, months ago I walked up behind him and put my hands around one of his arms as he went to move it, not knowing I was there. He all but hurled me across the garage giving me a whiplash and landing me on my butt several feet away.

Relax, though. I laughed.

[MADem]

13. Oh no! I (unintentionally) stuck my big fat foot in it, didn't I??

On the bright side, I suppose I can give these smilies a workout!!!

I reallly didn't mean to suggest you were a vehicle, just that you had a powerful spouse~!

[chrisa]

11. Some people just deserve a good ass kicking now and again

Think of it this way - maybe they'll think twice before trying that crap again - maybe on someone half their size that wouldn't have someone there to defend them.

[applegrove]

14. vibes to you one and all.

[quakerboy]

15. Thats tough

For me, this is an internal struggle.

I am a larger guy, not maybe as strong as your husband, but with potential to injure people on accident if I don't pay attention to what I am doing in everyday situations.

I also get really irate really fast when I perceive injustice or people in a bad position to defend themselves from unprovoked attack.

I am also a pacifist. Though, not a passivist.

I have been lucky enough not to be placed in quite that situation yet. I feel that I would be standing between the BF and the harassers. Where it would go from there, I do not know. So far that has always been enough in and of itself.

I have mostly come to terms with the fact that I have hot blood, an internal desire to see justice done. For things to be fair, "right". And the fact that I believe it is wrong to do harm to others, even at the cost of harm to myself.

When a third party is involved, it gets a lot harder. I can spend my life as I wish, but do I have the right to not do what I can for another being? Its something that keeps me awake at night, occasionally.

[datasuspect]

16. I've hauled ass, I've gotten paid

and I've whooped some hellafied ass in my day.

don't ever take no one's shit.

words are one thing, but the moment your friend is getting pushed around physically, you're supposed to stomp some ass.

[seabeyond]

17. we are so sure

we are so sure, that we just know how it should be. and nothing is that clear. by the time you reach a certain age, you get all the grays because you have lived amongst them so long. the upside. in such a small amount of time you have come up with so many contradictions to what you believe, that you have opened your arms to and welcomed them with all your heart. and have received such rewards from that.

been there and done that woman. you are only beginning. wait until you actually have the babies and all the things you thought you knew, well hell, they fly out the window.

each open your heart more and more to find the oneness of all of who we are.

[csziggy]

18. You've gotten a lot of good advice but there is one part that I don't see addressed

"I'm depressed and literally feel sick about this and it's effected how I treat my husband. I've tried telling him it's not his fault but he obviously blames himself. It's me I'm having trouble with, not him. How do I reconcile my sudden glee of seeing another human being suffer with a morality that tells me that desiring harm is so absolutely wrong?"

Going forward, I think you and your husband - and probably your BF - need to deal with. Whether you can do it just by talking it out with each other or if you need to talk to a third party, I really think this part of your conflict needs to be confronted so that it does not fester.

You have a good man and a good relationship with him. You do NOT want this episode to sour that relationship. You also should not let your guilt over your natural glee at seeing bullies dealt with harm your own self worth.

I don't know you so I can't make specific recommendations. I know when my hubby and I had a problem, we went to a counselor for a while. She was not really a marriage counselor, but she helped us through the resolution of a rough patch. That was a little over 20 years ago and we'll be celebrating our 37th anniversary of being a couple on Valentine's Day, so I guess it helped. (Our 35th wedding anniversary is coming up in July, but that date is not as important to us as when we realized we were right for each other.)

There are various agencies, groups, etc. that have counselors and assistance available - take advantage of that help.

to you and to your husband. Thank him for standing up for your BF.

[cliffordu]

19. Your husband is a fine man of selfless action

and a paragon of restraint.

If he hadn't been there your BF might have very well - as a poster above stated - wound up in a hospital bed or a coffin.

Your hubby also broke it off when the threat was eliminated.

His actions were the very best of what humans have to offer when protecting others from harm.

As for your sudden rage at the time and the subsequent guilt now - Don't be too hard on yourself. Please.

Your rage is a natural reaction to seeing someone you obviously love in harms way. (Both your BF and Hubby)....

"The Fight or Flight" reaction is at play here, nothing else. Yours is THE natural reaction to seeing someone you love being threatened.

As for the guilt -

I understand that this incident might have uncovered a set of emotions you might have thought you were above, or immune too, and all I can say is that none of us are immune to these primal urges/feelings/reactions.

If you didn't have them, you wouldn't be human. It's how we roll.

Shake your husbands hand for me. Tell him he did the right thing, IMNSHO.

And don't be so hard on yourself. I would have wanted the fuckers dead, too.

[bluedigger]

20. You'll be okay.

I was involved in a similar situation many years ago. I was with a couple friends, one of whom was gay, hanging out at our regular bar on a slow night. A couple of young guys on leave from Desert Storm came in, and at some point in the evening things got uncomfortable. Blah, blah, blah, gay friend left, two punks followed him, and I followed them. That night everybody made it home unscathed, but when I went back in, the bartender told me she had 911 ready on speed dial.

It sounds like a lot of your conflict/guilt is in dealing with your emotions immediately following the incident. Remember that when you are either an active or observing participant in an intense situation, shall we say, that there is a lot of adrenaline released into your system. "Win or lose" , your body has to channel that extra energy and classify it. I remember one other thing about that long ago night - the bartender hooked me up for the rest of the evening and I still went home cold sober. You're just human in your reactions. Welcome to our race.

[flvegan]

21. All things considered, that wasn't violence.

That was seeking harmony.

Thanks to your husband, may he continue to act with empathy. What you think you feel to be the simple human emotion of "revenge" isn't the case. You didn't witness revenge. You witnessed punishment.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. UPDATE

I was having a hard time sorting out my feelings, as if you guys couldn't tell. I had a new talk with hubby the night before last (the blackout delayed my update).

I told him he was a hero and more importantly he was MY hero and how proud I am to be his wife. Then I let him know how much I enjoyed being his wife.

I really appreciate everyone's input -- even MADem who accused me of being as big as a Volkswagon. It really helped me look at myself -- especially my hips (MADEM, you know you won't be living this one down for some time to come, right?) -- and put everything into perspective.

I'm proud of my husband because he did the right thing the right way to the best anyone could hope for. If that is the bottom line and factually true than the rest is just understanding the context of my emotional reaction. Violence is scary even when you know you have nothing left but I think -- ironically -- I've found peace with that. That's not to say I'm not still the naive hippy-chick he started dating and he really touched my heart when he said, "I am the way the world is. You are what the world ought to be."

(He's always such a "guy" but he drops these proverb-like gems out of nowhere. Can you see why I love him?)

He also reminded me that soldiers make the best pacificists. We had a very quiet night together just talking and laughing in each other's arms. Life is good.

[LynneSin]

23. There are alot of gay people in this world who wish they had a friend like your husband

Because unfortunately, there are assholes everywhere who think they have some free ticket to harrass gay people.

[Corgigal]

24. your husband solved a problem

with the only language those thugs could here. No other answer would have worked that day. I would think of him as a hero and hot as hell and move on.