Today in 1963, President Kennedy gave what many consider to be one of his finest speeches.

[MiddleFingerMom]

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It was delivered to the German people in West Berlin during the Cold War and,
at one point, he told them he was one of them -- "Ich bin ein Berliner", The
crowd understood and went hysterical in its cheers and applause... even
though a "Berliner" locally meant a very popular donut -- and he had literally
told them that "I am a pastry".
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Luckily, the local police also understood and did not immediately surround
and consume him.
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[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That line of his always makes me smile!

[trotsky]

2. A funny story, but not exactly true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner

Jelly doughnut misconception

There is a misconception that Kennedy made a risible error by saying Ich bin ein Berliner (emphasis added): the claim is made that Kennedy referred to himself not as a "citizen of Berlin" but as a "jelly doughnut", known in Berlin as a "Pfannkuchen" ("pancake&quot but as "Berliner" in the north and west and as "Krapfen" in the south of Germany and in Austria. Kennedy should, supposedly, have said Ich bin Berliner to mean "I am a person from Berlin", and so adding the indefinite article ein to his statement implied he was a non-human Berliner, thus, "I am a jelly doughnut". However, while the indefinite article ein is omitted when speaking of an individual's profession or residence, it is still necessary when speaking in a figurative sense as Kennedy did. Since the President was not literally from Berlin but only declaring his solidarity with its citizens, "Ich bin ein Berliner" was correct.

[Kali]

6. as a very funny phrase book I bought when visiting a friend there mentions in almost every passage:

"even the natives have trouble with this, skip to the next section"...

[DFW]

9. I don't know where that line about "figurative sense" came from

I have to assume it's from someone who has some claim to authority on the subject, so I'm not dismissing it out of hand just because I've never heard it said before.

However: I live in Germany, speak fluent German with my German wife (always have), and we've never heard that one before.

As far as the Germans we know see it, he did indeed say "I am a jelly-filled donut." Just like if he had said "Ich bin ein Nürnberger" instead of "Ich bin Nürnberger," he would have said "I am a thin greasy sausage" instead of saying "I am a Nürnberger."

The best part would have been if he had told the Germans (in German) that he was a Parisian, using the same grammar: "Ich bin Pariser" means I am a Parisian," where "Ich bin ein Pariser" means I am a condom."

If you want to say you're from Hamburg and you say "Ich bin ein Hamburger," these days you're likely to be asked "Viertelpfunder oder Big Mac (quarter pounder or Big Mac)?"

[MiddleFingerMom]

13. I lived in Nurnberg for 3-1/2 years and LOVED those thin greasy sausages (Nurnberger bratwurst...

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... sold 3 on a Kaiser roll with a generous line of mustard from street carts everywhere.)
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I never was, nor am I now a big fan of what most of us know as bratwurst... but I'm
pretty sure I believed that I could live on a diet of nothing BUT Nurnberger bratwurst
at the time.
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And, having consumed SO many of them, I'd still be fairly confident proclaiming, "Ich
bin ein Nurnberger."
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You can be the Eggman or the Walrus... I am the thin greasy sausage!!!
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[DFW]

18. Cholesterol issues--can't do the eggs

Say hi to your friendly neighborhood walrus.

[trotsky]

15. Another source.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/jfk_berliner.htm

[trotsky]

16. And another.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/germany/130626/i-am-doughnut-kennedys-speech-and-lesson-grammar-storify

[MiddleFingerMom]

20. My Norton detected a virus attack at this source.

[trotsky]

21. OK, here's another thread on DU then.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023104698

[MiddleFingerMom]

22. It's not REALLY that important, Sorry.

[Ron Obvious]

3. It would be like...

I would be like going to Copenhagen and proclaiming "I am a Danish"

[DFW]

10. That's a fair analogy. n/t

[Ron Obvious]

4. Carter

I just remembered Jimmy Carter going to Poland and telling them to their consternation how much he wanted to "get to know" (wink wink, nudge nudge) the Polish people.

To be fair, the error was by the translator who had used very old Polish.

[Aristus]

5. Discredited long ago.

Stupid story anyway. As if the President woldn't have a competent translator to help him out with it beforehand. And he did.

And the Berliners didn't laugh derisively or giggle, or anything. They cheered, because they understood Kennedy's meaning: "I am as one with the people of Berlin."

Let's put this one to rest, what do you say?

[MiddleFingerMom]

7. Please read my post a little more carefully.

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And a competent translator wouldn't (at that time... I bet they have speeches
vetted by a local since) have known about such a localized idiom.
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There have been major faux pas committed by high-level translators before and
since. It doesn't necessarily reflect badly upon the president himself.
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[Aristus]

8. What I'm saying is: it wasn't a faux pas.

The Berliners knew exactly what he meant, and the only people who made a thing out of it are people with an imperfect understanding of German, both formal and idiomatic. If Kennedy was saying: "I am from Berlin", then "Ich bin Berliner" would have been correct. But he was expressing solidarity with the people of Berlin, in which case "Ich bin ein Berliner" is perfectly correct, in both formal and idiomatic German. Kennedy's translator knew this, and coached him appropriately.

[DFW]

11. Of course they understood.

That was less than two years after the wall had been erected. It was a tremendously powerful moment in German post-war history.

The Germans have STILL been chuckling about it ever since, all the same. Take it from one who gets ribbed for every grammatical error I ever make. Half the time, instead of getting corrected, the Germans just smile and ask, "Bist Du ein Berliner?"

Actually, if JFK's translator had been at the top of his game, he would have said "Ich bin auch Berliner (I'm a Berliner, too)."

[Aristus]

12. Read and understand.

Scroll down to the controversy section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner

Granted, once the mistake appears in the printed words of popular fiction, drawing people back from the error becomes well-nigh impossible.

Thanks for nothing, Len Deighton...

[DFW]

19. Len Deighton---Zose vere ze dayss!

My wife is very sweet-tempered, but don't try to tell her what stuff in her own language means. Then you get to know why the Germans have a reputation for being stubborn.

(Nance Greggs once asked me why she didn't age in a photo chronology spanning 28 years, and I told her that Germans have a very stubborn streak, and that she'd age when she was good and ready, and not before. Having turned 61 yesterday, she has graciously consented to finally look "a day over forty," but in her case, that is to be taken literally)

[olddots]

14. STOP IT !!!!!!

I am soooooo hungry now.

[MiddleFingerMom]

17. Ich bin ein Berliner/

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Ich bin ein Frankfurter.
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Ich bin ein Hamburger.
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Ich bin ein Nurnberger.
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Ich bin ein Wiener.
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Ich bin ein Buffalo Wing.
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There... did THAT scare off your hunger pangs?
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