Marijuana question from a non-user

[DebJ]

For me this is like telling my son, don't do sex, but if you do, please be safe and use a condom.

I have a question with similar intent (for a friend not my son) about marijuana.

How does someone who has just used pot determine when it would be safe for them to drive?
I mean, the whole point of getting stoned is to lose touch with reality. My friend says he
stays stoned about an hour (I realize the strength of the pot and likely other biological factors
would be involved but...).... but then another non-using friend and I realized that he really
couldn't know that because he loses all track of time with pot and that is why he does that.

So what are the average times it takes most people, and how can the user tell if its okay,
and how could an objective non-using friend observing that person tell if it was okay?

Thanks.

[GReedDiamond]

1. " ...the whole point of getting stoned is to lose touch with reality..."

Start by realizing that your preconceptions are thoroughly ridiculous, and work your way back, from there.

There are many resources, on the internet tubes, about "marijuana," (cannabis).

[DebJ]

8. I am sorry I didn't mean to offend you I am repeating what the USER told me it does to him.

1. when using he loses all perception of time
2. driving is unsafe because he can't judge anything correctly as far as timing and exactly where he is on the road/ distance etc
3. he specifically wants to use it because as he specifically said it alters his perceptions of reality. My rewording 'losing touch with reality' means what he said: he doesn't have accurate perceptions of time and space, or of what is safe or dangerous...everything looks beautiful, everything looks safe, etc.

So I hope you see I am relaying his experiences that he has relayed to me very often. His reasoning for using is to escape reality. That is his reasoning. That makes me very sad, the times when any of us feel a need to escape reality. Reality can be quite hard later in life when you've wasted much of it; that is hard for him to face; but he now wants to 'get wasted' even more..... sorry but I can't find the positives here. Not for this very dear friend.

And my only intentions are to insure that he does not hurt either himself or someone else by doing this to himself.
As for suggestions he use it at home, that is not an option.

On edit: often over more than half a century of my life of course I have found reality difficult, sad, painful. My son has bipolar disorder, my parents have both degenerated greatly the past year, losing physical and serious mental capacities. My husband has done some truly horrific and painful things this year (painful for both of us) as he has struggled to face a life-threatening illness and gone reckless. It's just not in my nature to run away from pain or adversity, but rather to put full efforts forward regardless of pain or cost to myself in order to do as I can to IMPROVE reality. That's just who I am. I've never seen anyone who habitually avoids reality, as a basic life plan with full intent to escape responsibility as often as possible, make their lives richer, fuller, happier, but instead, create a life full of sadness and regret. I'm not implying all users do this with MJ; this friend HAS. I just don't want him to get hurt even more; I want him to be safe. Nor do I want him to hurt someone else while driving his vehicle. My mother has been in a wheelchair for the last 25 of her 85 years because of a drunk driver. I had a stoned friend drive me while stoned...I had had no idea she even used. I had to repeatedly tell her to get back on the right side of the road as she drove straight into oncoming traffic on the other side. She found that hilariously funny and told me she was in PERFECT condition to drive. (Needless to say, I never got in a car with her driving again, and that and other experiences with stoned people is precisely why I never used myself....I don't want to be like that. Nor like the kids in high school who jumped off a second story of a building over and over again and thought it was a hoot....until a few days later when a few had casts for months on end....)

[DebJ]

14. Is 'marijuana' a politically incorrect term to use?

I wasn't aware of that, but your quotation marks made me wonder.

[Shampoobra]

21. Not politically incorrect

Cannabis is its botanical name, and marijuana is more of a slang term with fuzzy origins. I imagine the other poster was merely being technically correct with the language, and not criticizing your use of the word.

For example, when I was getting my authorization, everyone referred to it as "medical marijuana authorization" (MMJ). But the actual paperwork states the amount of cannabis I'm allowed to buy or possess (not marijuana).

(I'm allowed up to 28 ounces at a time. But I don't know why I'd want to possess that much. I probably go through less than 10 ounces a year.)

[DebJ]

22. Thanks.

[TexasBushwhacker]

2. Not unlike with alcohol

Weed can impair judgement. So even if it's been an hour or so and you think you're good to go, you may not be. Some marijuana now is very potent. It seems to me that the safe at smart thing to do is to either get high at home or have a designated driver.

As for teens smoking pot (or drinking for that matter) their growing brains are still much more likely to be damaged by pot smoking or drinking than if they waited until they were in their 20's.

[Oscarmonster13]

3. there's no way to know, there's your answer

depending on the type of Cannabis (sativa or indica) and the potency, you have completely different reactions. Indoica is more useful for relaxation and pain relief, sativa is more of an energetic and mental awareness high.
NEITHER strain is meant "to make you lose touch with reality" that's more like what hallucinogenics do...

I agree with poster above who says teens are more succeptible to the effect due to growing brains...as I am a long time user in my 40's I can do most anything high, it's a natural state of mind for me in many ways

but I seriously think you need to educate yourself before you try to have the talk with anyone about it, you'll sound like a tool.

on edit: here's a link
http://www.theweedblog.com/the-difference-between-indica-and-sativa-marijuana-plants/

there's probably much more out there, be sure to look for educated sources, not just the "dude!" stoner types...

[DebJ]

10. Interesting. Especially the part about increasing focus.

I'd be curious to know how much control a user has over what he focuses on during the experience.
Maybe I will google that later on.

Increased focus would have been a nice benefit if those I've worked with who used on the job
actually used increased focus to focus on getting the job done, LOL. Never worked
that way though. The one guy could only focus on how spectacular a worker he was
while the rest of the crew did all his work for him. Was that his choice? Or does a user's
mind float to whatever, and relax the user so much that he doesn't want to focus on such things?
Just curious.

Another reason I have never used myself is that with bipolar running in the family, I won't touch
anything that gives me less control of mind (and therefore of body as well). I've seen people
who can't control their minds, and empathetically been forced to feel their pain and suffering and
seen the disastrous results to their lives and the lives of loved ones when they do not have control
due to reasons beyond their control. So I would never do something to intentionally put myself
in a position where I can't control perceptions and feelings. Heavy drinkers have always pushed
me to drink when actually it makes me physically ill because my liver/kidneys whatever cannot
remove toxic substances, including anesthesia (I stay out of it for days instead of hours, have almost
died in surgery). Pot smokers have been just as pushy. I have watched them going through their experiences
with some curiousity but I don't tell them what to choose to do...but drinkers and pot smokers have
repeatedly attempted to force me to join in. I don't understand that, since I don't push them to stop.
Just try to help them to be safe.

[DebJ]

11. Forgot to say it's not that I am lecturing him on not to use it.

I'm not taking the position here of teacher...he could have learned anything he wanted to learn if he wanted
to learn it by means other than using it but he doesn't want to do so. It's his life, his choice.
My position is simply to protect or help him protect his physical safety and that of others in the use of a car.


On edit: he is in his sixties.

[DebJ]

16. Hey thanks for urging me to do the google. I just got some info he will need

Increased Heart Rate. Cannabis use causes an increase in heart rate in many users, usually lasting for the period of intoxication and slowing back down as the cognitive effects wane.

He has already had a heart attack (meaning part of his heart has already died) and is on multiple drugs for high blood pressure
and that type of thing. He should discuss this with his cardiologist and / or GP.

Thanks!

[Lucinda]

23. You can also find reputable studies that show pot doesn't negatively impact heart and blood pressure

health concerns.

Mortality study - heart patients:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23351819

The best idea, as you mentioned already, is for him to discuss it with his doctors

[Oscarmonster13]

29. with doctors?

Depends on the Dr. not many are cool and some will report you.



to the OP: are you concerned about your friend driving or are you against them smoking? If you start into your 'talk' with them armed to the hilt with stuff about how it is bad for his heart, etcetc that sounds like someone trying to do an intervention?

The more I read your posts here it sounds like you don't like it, so you want him to quit? just an observation....

[DebJ]

30. It is the driving that I am attempting to address here.

However, he does have several substantial health issues so he should ask his doctor.
His doctor is 'cool' with it............I disagree. But actually, he has several doctors he must
ask. Cardiologist, GP and several others.

You are correct. I don't like it; I'd like him to quit because for him, in his case, it is an escape mechanism.
I'd prefer he would instead learn to enjoy what he DOES have in his life, instead of feeling persecuted all the
time, no matter what...hey, a guy who blows $15k a year on a hobby year after year and still feels like he is
deprived and persecuted...he just never learned how to be happy or satisfied with anything at all. He has made
some small progress recently, but if he goes back to his pothead days, he'll just retreat again instead of dealing
with hey, LIFE! Not saying all pot users do that, but we go way back and this is his 'habit'.
But he must make his own choices and live his own life.

I just don't want him to drive stoned. Since he can't smoke at home, I don't see how that is possible.

[fizzgig]

4. it's really variable for me

sometimes i'm good a half hour after a bowl, sometimes two hour after one hit. and it's really subjective, a matter of knowing when you're right to drive. if you feel stupid, don't do it. if you're hey something shiny! don't do it.

i won't smoke while i'm out unless i can stay where ever i am until i'm right to drive.

[DebJ]

12. That is what I would like him to do to stay safe but as I have had an experience

a life-threatening one with someone who insisted they were safe to drive, while driving repeatedly into oncoming
traffic in the other lane, I do not feel secure that someone using can always judge when they are safe.... and if there
is a way to know for sure, perhaps we can help him here (me and another friend)... like doing some basic self-test
that would tell him that? I don't know. I guess maybe that's not possible really? I just want him to be safe.

So the other option is for myself or another mutual friend to judge that for him....can that be done? By someone
not using?

[begin_within]

5. If eaten, such as in brownies, the effect lasts longer

Because I think it takes longer for the body to metabolize it out of the system. I think on average, if it is smoked, the effects will wear off about an hour after the last inhalation. Just an average estimate. But it's different for everyone and also depends on how much is taken. Also as pointed out, one effect is time disorientation, so someone intoxicated by it may feel like an hour has passed when it's only been 5 minutes by the clock. The best plan is to plan to not go anywhere for the rest of the evening.

[DebJ]

13. Thanks that makes a lot of sense about eating versus smoking.

[Oscarmonster13]

28. not to mention, if the recipe i not regulated

as with someone who isn't that skilled in cooking the butter or not watching the dosage, the effects can be WAY stronger and last for hours...

I have been a daily smoker for years for arthritis and other issues. As I said above, I don't really get "high" like I did in HS...it's more of a mellow and I smoke sativa and use the creativity to write, design, etc...
Anyway, was going on a trip to a concert with a friend who thought some brownies would be fun. She had made them before but this was a new batch so she wasn't sure of the dosage. She let me eat one before we got in the car, and I actually felt drunk, woozy and couch-locked in the car seat...the movement of the car made me feel a little queasy, and I had trouble keeping my eyes open. I got the worst cotton mouth...
So when I told her how I was feeling she made the announcement to everyone else in the car - "OK now you all know what the brownies will do"...I was the guinea pig!!!
I woke up 4 hours later, and felt hung over for the rest of the day/evening...the concert was okay, from what I remember...

...but ya, edibles are a crapshoot unless you have an experienced chef or get them pre-made from the dispensary!Lesson Learned!

[FatBuddy]

6. if you listen to black sabbath while driving

after smoking, driving is 100% safe.

[OriginalGeek]

7. lol...done that

Sabbath and weed are a nifty combo.

Not any more but I guess it's safe to say I got pretty lucky in my youth.

[davidpdx]

9. Like others have said I think there are a lot of variables

I'm also a non-user, but my first wife smoked it occasionally. The smell bothers me quite a bit.

I applaud your willingness to talk to him about it.

[DebJ]

15. The smell makes me vomit; I went to a rock concert while 6 months pregnant and

suffering from round-the-clock nausea. Ever since that day, the smell makes me sick to my stomach.
There is something about smells and pregnancy that just leaves a permanent imprint on your brain.
Irish Spring soap, a smell I thought fresh and refreshing before pregnancy, now makes me gag...and
I have not been pregnant since 1982.

[davidpdx]

17. I'll tell you what it does to me and it will make you laugh

It actually makes me sneeze. I'm convinced I was a drug dog in a prior life.

[DebJ]

18. LOL. Hey, I'll switch with you. There are perfumes

that my body recognizes as having an odor similar to it, and those perfumes make
me throw up too. For awhile one scent was very popular and I was working in a mall
at the time, and I literally threw up on the job. Not nice since I was working with food.

[davidpdx]

19. My mom is sensitive to perfumes

and doesn't wear any. She doesn't like jewelry either. I never quite know what to buy her.

I'm not allergic to them, but when I have to walk through a department store with a cosmetic section I usually plug my nose as I find the smell gross.

[DebJ]

20. Some of them make me sneeze but I think the nausea is not allergy but

just psychological imprinting. I think the 'cure' for that is to continuously expose yourself
to whatever makes you do that and re-learn a new response (ie not puking). No thanks!

[Locut0s]

25. Ironic considering MJ is one of the more powerful natural antiemetics...

But yeah psychological imprinting can lead to just about any response

[KurtNYC]

24. The effect of MJ is very different from alcohol

Alcohol is a narcotic which numbs the user and slows their reaction times. It can also engender over-confidence in one's ability to drive.

MJ is a hypnotic which, in novice users, is more likely to make one doubt their ability to drive or they may drive slow. MJ is not as powerful as many people make out. You do not hallucinate but are more prone to a hypnotic state (which explains why music and video games are sought out). The effects peak within 5 minutes of smoking and then trail off for an hour or so. Generally experience is the best tool for a user to determine how impaired they are but driving within an hour of smoking should be avoided. That is a short time to wait compared to alcohol, and who's effects can persist for 12 hours or more.

[DebJ]

31. Thanks. Funny how talk of MJ always ends up in a comparison to alcohol.

For me, the comparison has always been: using alcohol, or just deciding to feel good, happy enjoy life as it is.
or MJ, or just deciding to enjoy life, feel good, happy.

As opposed to which one is better to use. The option of none but be very happy never seems to come up, LOL.

[B Calm]

26. Depending on the potency of the pot. The high normally doesn't last

more than a few hours at most.

[CanSocDem]

27. A lot depends on the quality of the driver.

First and foremost. Have they enough skill and experience to behave normally under abnormal conditions? I've know professional drivers in the 70's and 80's, who would consume 40 oz.'s of whiskey/day while they were driving; others who would do a hit of acid at the start of every shift. Many others would choose their pharmaceuticals with more discrimination using a variety of diet pills. Cocaine made its' rounds but was quickly replaced with the powdered meta-amphetamines(bathtub mix) but high-lighted by what was called "crystal" that really was a clean and useful performance enhancing drug. And then there was cannabis...

It appealed to those drivers who were into the job of driving. They could put on as many miles as the speed freaks but in a mellow state of mind, totally focused on the job at hand and not doing anything "abnormal".

Everything was fine 'til they started drug testing as a condition of employment and found cannabis to be the 'drug of choice'. The War On Drugs ended cannabis use among truck drivers (for the most part).

Nowadays, pot and driving are getting a bad rap. Like anything you do with cannabis, you know when it isn't helpful or when it is counter productive.


.

[DebJ]

32. Hm. Well my friend who drove down the wrong side of the road didn't seem to know

that she was placing us in any danger. She thought it very entertaining.

[RebelOne]

33. Just as in alcohol use, I do not believe it is safe to drive after smoking marijuana.

I smoked it maybe 35 years ago. And once while I was driving after smoking it, I found myself on the wrong side of the road.

I was not a habitual smoker, just occasionally. It is terribly fattening because of the munchies.

I did have paranoid feeling, but that is because I was in a depressed state at the time and the pot enhanced the paranoia.

[Left Coast2020]

34. This is something I just ran across--though sorta recent.

"We expected that we would find that a history of heavy marijuana use, more than 500 to 1,000 uses, would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana, said Donald Tashkin, M.D., of the University of California in Los Angeles.

But in fact, they reported at the American Thoracic Society meeting here, marijuana use was associated with cancer risk ratios below 1.0, indicating that a history of pot smoking had no effect on the risk for respiratory cancers.

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/234nhu/:1PhdS1c!6:XjBbeCjG/www.medpagetoday.com/hematologyoncology/lungcancer/3393?nXFx&xid=su_&hr=su&nQZx/

The last time I was stoned was a year ago. It was many years prior to that actually lighting up. But most recently I was at my formers bosses daughters BD party. People were lighting up in the garage (parents gone), and I was just breathing the stuff. Strange feeling after all those years.

[DebJ]

35. I wonder what period of time that 500-1000 covers.

If you smoke, then have a break and the lungs heal themselves, and especially if you are younger/healthier so they can heal,
that is one situation.

If you smoke all that in a short period of time, perhaps the lungs can't recover. Or if you are older, hereditary factors, etc.