The Walking Dead 4.14 "The Grove" (Spoiler Alert)

[NewJeffCT]

After finding an idyllic place to establish a new shelter, the group starts to question whether it is possible to go back to the way things were.


I've heard tonight's episode is very intense- "excruciating" is what Chad Coleman says. "Brutal" from Spoiler TV.

Supposedly, it was available early for download by mistake in the UK, so there are some juicy spoilers out there for tonight.

[NewJeffCT]

1. Hoping for a good show tonight

[Joe Shlabotnik]

2. I saw the 19 pages of screen grabs.

I couldn't resist. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing how its done. I'm really surprised that AMC would screw up like that.

[NewJeffCT]

3. I didn't look that far

just read a summary of what happens. And, I think it might be the UK company that distributes the show that screwed up

[NewJeffCT]

4. Looks like AMC is not too happy

No more advance screenings for everybody.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/15/the-walking-dead-the-grove-non-review-spoiler-someone-dies/

[Brigid]

99. Something like this happened with a show I used to watch . . .

That ended several years back. Back then, the network would send the feed via satellite to the affiliates the night before the btoadcast. Somehow, someone was getting hold of it and posted screen shots on the web. The network eventually caught on and encrypted it or something.

[mgcgulfcoast]

107. not enough beth

she is by far the most watchable character.

[NewJeffCT]

5. One hour to go

...

[texanwitch]

6. I will be reading the posts to night live tonight.

Last week there was to work.

I had a late lunch.

Thanks for all the posts in advance.

[NewJeffCT]

8. I was just thinking about you

and was wondering where you were last week. Even if you don't respond on Sunday night, you usually follow-up a day or two later.

[texanwitch]

9. Last week was so busy.

Tonight nothing.

It is very windy down here.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. I think one of the little girls is going to get it.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. DU this poll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018589464

[NewJeffCT]

13. done

Cosmos looks good, but it's too close to the season finale

[NewJeffCT]

11. the girl & the walker scene

from Talking Dead was the opening.

[charlie and algernon]

12. was that Lizzie playing with a zombie?

She's the one aspect of this show that truly makes it horror. The horror movie plot that really freaks me out are evil kids.

[NewJeffCT]

14. Yes, I think it's supposed to be her

she was playing with the walkers in the first episode before.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. What did Carol say about Mika? She said she's worse, and then something else

I missed it.

[NewJeffCT]

17. doesn't have a mean body in her body

implying that she's not tough enough to survive

[NewJeffCT]

16. Carol being a prophet

saying that Lizzie is strong, but Mika doesn't have a mean bone in her body?

[Baitball Blogger]

18. Oh, that's what I missed.

Yeah. Sounds like foreshadow.

[NewJeffCT]

19. Now Mika saying that she can kill walkers

but, not people

[charlie and algernon]

20. "I'm not like my sister, I'm not messed up."

Carol now telling Mika she'll have to kill someone. I'm calling it now, I think Mika kills Lizzie to save the others.

[NewJeffCT]

23. that could certainly happen

on the show

[NewJeffCT]

21. Everything works out the way it's supposed to

geez, lots of potential foreshadowing

[Vashta Nerada]

22. The two girls are messed up.

[NewJeffCT]

25. yes they are

most kids would be in this sort of world

[Brigid]

28. Both of them.

Wow.

[NewJeffCT]

24. Was that Daryl & Beth's fire?

from the previous episode with the moonshine home?

[NewJeffCT]

26. good job Mika

3 shots, but she got it

[NewJeffCT]

27. water, nuts

and Tyreese suddenly gets a comfy chair

[charlie and algernon]

29. holy shit

[NewJeffCT]

32. yep

that was friggin creepy

[NewJeffCT]

30. Lizzie is really fucked up

playing with the walker and going crazy, now saying the walker was her friend. uh oh...

[Baitball Blogger]

31. Lizzie is a danger to herself and to others.

Too much in a fantasy world.

[NewJeffCT]

33. might be a good call

on Mika killing Lizzie... but, will it be walker Lizzie or live Lizzie?

[Baitball Blogger]

34. This opens up another question.

Lizzie can kill people, but not zombies. Mika can kill zombies, but not people.

So, was it Lizzie who killed the infected people back in the prison?

[NewJeffCT]

35. Tyreese

saying that he feels like he can trust Carol. Ooops

[NewJeffCT]

36. Lizzie feeing a mouse to the walker

stuck in the railroad tracks... then, burned out walker swarm

[Baitball Blogger]

38. Lizzie finally came to her senses?

[NewJeffCT]

41. Not sure

Carol was looking at her - was she shooting & missing, or did she really try to kill them?

[Vashta Nerada]

37. That group of zombies looked like they survived a burning.

Dayum.

[NewJeffCT]

39. Is that from Daryl & Beth burning the shack

I wonder

[Vashta Nerada]

40. I haven't considered that.

But I don't remember seeing walkers in the shack...

[NewJeffCT]

43. There weren't any

but, the fire could have attracted them

[Baitball Blogger]

48. No, there were three that approached the burning cabin.

Saw them the second time I saw the episode.

[Baitball Blogger]

45. Three of them came around the house while the house was burning.

Beth and Daryl saw them before fleeing.

The walkers may have been too slow to beat the flames.

[NewJeffCT]

50. True -

and the fire could have spread quickly... plus, 3 walkers in the trees could have meant several more behind them, too.

[Brigid]

42. Well, so much for Lizzie's fantasy world.

And if there is one thing even more gross than walkers, it's burned walkers. Can you imagine what they smell like?

[NewJeffCT]

44. just like BBQ chicken

kidding

[Vashta Nerada]

46. The house Carol is in doesn't have any electricity for lights...

but she was going to bake pecans in the oven?

[NewJeffCT]

47. Most likely stored propane

in a tank at the house

[Packerowner740]

113. Early in the episode they showed a large propane tank outside the house.

[NewJeffCT]

116. good catch

I must have missed it

[DebJ]

123. Yes but they used electronic ignition....OOPS! n/t

[charlie and algernon]

49. Seriously though, what the heck have Rick, Michonne, and Carl been up too?

strange that the main character of the show has been absent the last couple episodes. Perhaps he and Michonne are busy trying to give Carl another sibling?

[NewJeffCT]

51. Is Carol going to confess?

to Tyreese? You can tell the guilt is overwhelming her

[Baitball Blogger]

55. Each show has been a highlight of main characters.

Daaaaaang! Lizzie, What the hell!

[Vashta Nerada]

52. OMG.

Lizzie killed Mika.

[NewJeffCT]

53. Holy shit

Lizzie just killed Mika

she's gone off the deep end - and then some

[charlie and algernon]

54. FUCK

[NewJeffCT]

56. poor Mika

she didn't deserve to go out like that

[Baitball Blogger]

58. Lizzie is a liability.

"I know what I have to do now."

I think we're going to see a repeat of "Of Mice and Men."

[charlie and algernon]

57. So the Walking Dead did have more lines it could cross.

[NewJeffCT]

62. Yep

Now what happens with Lizzie (and Judith)?

Does Carol confess to Tyreese? Does he go crazy & strangle her ?

[charlie and algernon]

64. I think Carol is safe, the question is, do we actually see them kill Lizzie?

[Digit]

59. That knocked the wind right out of me

I am at a loss for words.

[Vashta Nerada]

61. Looks like The Walking Dead crossed into Game of Thrones territory.

[NewJeffCT]

63. good analogy

I don't think they've had child-on-child murder in Game of Thrones yet, though

[Vashta Nerada]

65. No...

but there were siblings killing siblings.

[Godhumor]

103. Technically they did

Arya killed the stable boy way back when.

[Brigid]

60. Oh shite!

Holy crap!

[NewJeffCT]

66. yeah

that was crazy

[Vashta Nerada]

67. HOLY SHIT!

[NewJeffCT]

68. wow

that was hard to watch

[Brigid]

69. Crying now.

"She can't be around other people."

[HipChick]

82. Carol should have Otis'd Lizzie a long time ago..

[Joe Shlabotnik]

101. I was hoping that if the deer

was going to get shot, that Carl would be standing behind it again.

[NewJeffCT]

70. and another Holy Shit moment

Carol admits to Tyreese that she killed Karen and David

[Baitball Blogger]

71. This has been the best of the shows this season.

Lots of complicated character development.

[NewJeffCT]

77. agreed

Tyreese looks haunted

[Baitball Blogger]

85. Yeah. Foreshadow there when he said he could stay in the cabin because he wasn't

ready for new people, and he trusted the people he was with. Then, one by one, they all had issues:

Mika--not being able to kill bad people.
Lizzie--Cray-Cray and a danger to people.
Judith--Needs more help than one person can provide.
Carol--Not as trustworthy as he thought.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

102. Tyreese should trust Carol,

Because he knows what to expect from her now. She could have also blamed Karen and David's deaths on Lizzie, but choose to own up to it instead.

[Baitball Blogger]

108. Carol said something interesting on Talking Dead.

She said that when you know that you're willing to do what has to be done, that it makes you distrustful of others because you know that among other people, there will be some just like you.

[NewJeffCT]

72. Tyreese

forgives her. She was expecting him to kill her.

[charlie and algernon]

73. I'm glad the Talking Dead learned and kept the audience quiet during the intro

Not like there was much to applause about anyway. That was a damn tough episode.

[Brigid]

78. I think that one guy was crying.

I really do. Not much joking and kidding around tonight on"Talking Dead, " I'll wager.

[Baitball Blogger]

87. Did you get the flower joke?

I didn't understand the joke about the flower that everybody thought was in bad taste.

[Brigid]

90. Must a missed that.

I did have to step out out of the room for a minute.

[NewJeffCT]

79. Yes, I noticed that as well

instead of excited & rowdy Chris Hardwick and a cheering audience, it was more subdued

[charlie and algernon]

81. They're all wearing black as well.

[NewJeffCT]

83. good catch

I didn't notice that

[blogslut]

74. Well,

that was a gut punch.

[NewJeffCT]

80. that was a few gut punches

Mika, then Lizzie, and then the ending with Carol's confession.

[Vashta Nerada]

75. That was the most intense episode I have ever watched.

[Liberal Veteran]

76. Wow. That was one tough hour.

[Solly Mack]

84. Well, that was intense.

I was so afraid Lizzie would kill Judith or Mika and then she did kill Mika and was about to kill Judith.

I think Lizzie's dying was a long time coming and should have happened sooner.


I knew Tyreese would forgive Carol.

Poor Mika.

[Brigid]

86. Hey, where was Judith at the end?

When Tyreese and Carol were leaving the house, I did not see her.

[Baitball Blogger]

88. I think she was in that basket Carol was carrying.

[NewJeffCT]

89. I'll have to check that again

to see if maybe she was hidden behind Tyreese's body or something?

[charlie and algernon]

92. yeah, I thought she was on Tyreese's back, covered by a blanket.

Carol was rocking that basket way too much for Judith to be in that.

[NewJeffCT]

105. she was

I rewatched the end and the baby was on his back.

[DebJ]

124. But they did a terrible job making it look like a baby...left me unsure. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

125. True, it did not

It look like a baby sized hoody/snuggy on his back.

[Baitball Blogger]

91. Hmmm...I think Chris Hardwicke knew about that show, because he's handing out

flowers to the guest.

He generally has something from the show to hand to the audience members. Like pudding one show.

[Brigid]

93. Apparently I was not the only one asking about Judith.

Medium crispy walkers and super crispy walkers!

A little laughter is good for decompressing after this rough episode.

[NewJeffCT]

94. well, she wasn't forgotten

at least

[Baitball Blogger]

96. Per Talking Dead, she was carried in Tyrese's backpack.

[Gothmog]

95. Wow

That was a great episode. I am watching Talking Dead right now

[NewJeffCT]

97. Yes

very intense - gut wrenching

[NewJeffCT]

98. The puzzle from the table

in the episode - Melissa McBride said it was on the table during the filming, but when it came time for the scene where she confessed to Tyreese, he brought out the puzzle box and it was a picture of Sophia.

[AllenVanAllen]

100. Great episode...

but I'm sad now.

[Vashta Nerada]

104. Why is it okay for Carol to kill indiscriminately but not Lizzie?

I was confused by that.

[NewJeffCT]

106. she's doing it to save the group

Karen and David were on the verge of death and could have spread their sickness to others. Lizzie was a danger to Judith, Tyreese and her.

Lizzie just killed her sister to show that she could come back as a zombie.

[Baclava]

109. you sound confused - here, look at the flowers

[Baitball Blogger]

110. That was helpful. Thanks.

[Vashta Nerada]

111. Ah. It all makes sense now.

Thanks for sharing the video.

[NewJeffCT]

112. Thanks

that was a good link - very informative

[Baclava]

126. I do my best for humanity

Lizzie was becoming my new favorite character though...predictable is boring, if you know what I mean

[Gothmog]

114. Evidently, this was partly taken from the Comics

According to another site, in the comic one brother kills another brother. While the grownups discuss the issue, Carl kills the murdering brother because he is a danger to group http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/16/the-walking-dead-lizzie-and-mika-compared-to-ben-and-billy/

In The Walking Dead #61, Ben brutally kills his twin brother and then, caught in the act again (this time by Andrea), tells her “Don’t worry, he’s going to come back. I didn’t hurt his brains.”

After locking him away, the group debates on killing Ben to protect themselves. With Dale taking a strong no for obvious reasons, it feels a bit like a scene they later did in the second season of The Walking Dead when the group had captured Randall and was debating what to do about him. The adults take no immediate action but that night, Carl sneaks into the van where Ben is locked up and shoots him.

Carl, of course, isn’t anywhere near Lizzie and Mika. Because of both proximity and dramatic value, I and many others have speculated that if Lizzie were to kill Mika, it would have to be Carol who puts her down.

So, ultimately, how close? Well, they aren’t boys and they aren’t twins — but in a number of other ways their stories sync up disturbingly well. Even the different adoptive parents can be explained simply (in the comic book series, Carol was dead by this point in the story, while Andrea and Dale were still alive. On TV, it’s flipped).

[NewJeffCT]

115. good find

In the comics, Tyreese & Carol were also a couple.

[NewJeffCT]

117. saw this rhyme on another website:

Lizzie Samuels took a knife
she had to end her sister's life.
When Carol saw what she had done
She snuffed out Lizzie with her gun.

[texanwitch]

118. WOW.

Carol did the right thing.

Lizzie lost her mind.

To much stress for a kid.

Carol took a big hit on this one.
.

[NewJeffCT]

119. yes

I'd never be able to sleep with Lizzie around...

[texanwitch]

121. No kidding.

Killed her own sister so she could come back.

And the baby.

Stress kills the soul.

[gort]

120. That is how Tyrese found closure.

He saw Carol execute Lizzie knowing that he did not have the resolve that Carol had.

For him it was important to know that he friends did not suffer when Carol killed them in order to protect the group. McBride and Coleman's acting in the scene at the table was intense. Very well done.

[texanwitch]

122. I did like how she gave him the gun.

I lnew he wouldn't do it.

[krispos42]

127. The one time I don't see it live...

First time in TWD I didn't see it on premiere night!

Got home from the GF's house at about 9:15, so I figured I catch the replay at 11... but found out my grandmother was in the ER because her blood sugar had spiked and insulin wasn't bringing it down. So I took my mom there; we got home a little after midnight.

Then I was watching it Monday night, and about 50 minutes into the episode (watching via my cable company's "On Demand" service... and the damn cat stretches out and hits the remote, changing the channel!

I wound up losing my place, and because it was the new episode, the fast forward feature was disabled!

It was too late to wait 50 minutes to catch up to where I was, so I wound up avoiding the fans at work and DU for all of Monday AND Tuesday until I could finally watch the ending.

Holy shit, I knew Lizzie was disturbed... the twisted logic she had was frightening. But that was just a stunner. Wow.

I had thought Mika was the new hope for the next generation...

[NewJeffCT]

128. Hope your grandmother is okay

and, yes it was a disturbing episode

[krispos42]

129. She's a horse...

...at least physically. She's in assisted living, so when the insulin didn't work, they sent her to the hospital. But she's been combative all week, so that was fun, trying to soothe her so they could work on her.


Yay.

[ok_cpu]

130. In light of the last episode, how does this story end?

No spoilers from the comic readers, please.

This week's episode was tough to watch and very well executed. But it left me wondering where the story goes from here and how it can be brought to a close. This week seemed like a microcosm of their new world. Brief moments of comfort and humanity followed by grotesque moral judgments and rationalizations.

I guess they could find a new prison or a better Woodbury....

[NewJeffCT]

131. The comic is still ongoing

The "prison" arc in the comic concluded with Lori and Judith dying as the group fled the prison in Issue #48. On the show, it took them 3.5 seasons to get past the prison arc.

The comic itself is now around Issue 122 or 123, I think. If they go through the subsequent storylines at the same pace, the show will need another 6-7 or so seasons to get where they are now in the comics.

You still have:
1) the Eugene to Washington storyline
2) the Terminus/Sanctuary storyline and how it brings everybody back together
3) Morgan is still out there somewhere. Will he ever return?
4) Where is Beth,?
5) Daryl and his group?