I had a really bad public encounter today.

[closeupready]

I was in line at the coffee place, and it was packed (it's cold and so people want something hot to warm them up) - well, in walks this woman with about 4 friends, and she oblivously twirls and what have you, and she bumps me - no problem, I inch forward to give her room. But then there is less room between me and the guy in front of me. Well, so then she bumps me again. So I inch forward again. And on. Finally, it's the guy in front of me who barks out in protest, not me - of course, as I try to explain, I realize it's pointless, and sure enough, this woman in back of me just ... I don't know if she was on drugs or what, but on she goes, twirling and yapping and brushing against me.

So in terror, I take my purchase and run to the napkin counter. Sure enough, she runs over behind me with her friends and begins to push me out - so I quickly took my purchase and ran as far away from her as possible, waiting for her to leave. Which, ironically, took her a while.

I chuckled a bit, but then I was actually furious at her thoughtlessness. Am I overreacting?

[panader0]

1. Stand Your Ground!

[closeupready]

3. lol, well not quite, but

we all know men can be just as thoughtless as all get-out, but women can be, too - she struck me as the kind of woman who has no romantic partner, and so she overcompensates in other parts of her life. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but like most people, I try ALWAYS not to encroach on others' personal space, particularly where it's crowded. Unless that gathering is intended to be a place where you are expected to encroach. But in the absence of that, what kind of person does this to a complete stranger??

[cwydro]

10. Just to point out...

not all women "who have no romantic partner" bump into strange men in the coffee shop.

[closeupready]

11. Right, but this woman struck me as such a one.

In the same way that, for example, you can sometimes sense when you are dealing with someone who is mentally ill, but only after observing clues (that may not be obvious at first glance).

[cwydro]

12. I actually was not aware that any "unattached" women

acted in such a way.

Perhaps I'm naïve.

[closeupready]

13. Perhaps - or I'm being inarticulate or imprecise in my impressions.

She had this drama queen, center-of-attention, look-at-me animation to her movements that just SCREAMED needy, needy, NEEDY!! As I explained, I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, and moved out of her space, but she just moved right on in, and then when I ran away, she chased me, lol, to the napkin counter, standing RIGHT NEXT TO ME.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but it was quite Glenn Close scary, in a funny way.

[cwydro]

14. As a female,

I could tell you stories of men invading my personal space standing too close in lines etc. Stories I've heard from women who had this happen on crowded subways or buses; some of these stories will curl your hair with the utter obscenity of the man's behavior. Some of these "close encounters" are quite threatening.

I don't know if they have romantic partners or not. But it's happened to most women I know.

I don't hesitate to tell them to back off.

[closeupready]

15. Good for you! I probably should have said something; often, I simply

avoid crowded spots like that (if it's not a gay establishment), because I find that heterosexuals get goofy and aggressive in a way that is unpleasant for me. I just can't deal with the drama; don't want to get involved in people's scripts. Count me out. And I'm flirting with the idea of simply stopping my patronage of that place altogether.

It's funny how there is this stereotype about New York that people here are rude, and when I first moved here, I didn't really see it, as such. Now, after 20 years, I think it becomes apparent, year after year, why we behave occasionally with such abruptness and coldness, so perhaps I've become one of those grouchy stereotypes. Oh well. Time to move altogether, maybe?

[cwydro]

25. No, she was in your space. That doesn't make you grouchy.

I liked another poster's response here..."Am I in your way?"

Gonna remember that one myself lol.

[hopemountain]

38. stand in your power! you have every right to

your physical boundaries. do not seek excuses for her behavior and call it "understanding". it does not matter why she was behaving so inconsiderately - stand your ground. that's all she needs to know: your ground. do not set yourself up to be a victim - which is what you did/are doing by posting your complaint here.

[closeupready]

39. Thanks for that. Alternatively, I realized I could have embarrassed her -

simply leave my place in line and go to the end.

They would have definitely all gotten the message, believe me. And I would have stood there giggling to myself.

[hopemountain]

40. as a short person, i have faced my share

of rude persons - and what works best is to stand firm, say, "excuse me?" and pierce their eyes with my very dark and deep brown eyes. if that does not work, i have a repetoire of salty epithets upon which i may draw and will not hesitate to make a scene.

[NJCher]

41. funny

I thought of that, too.

If time wasn't a problem and you don't mind waiting, I think that would have been a good way to approach it. It certainly sends a message and guess who would then have to deal with her!

I always carry something to read so I can deal with lines better, since I am super-impatient and hate waiting. In this case, I'd have gone to the back of the line and read my book. She's not worth the aggravation.

Sorry you had this crummy experience. Sometimes people just suck.



Cher

[Enrique]

35. that was the name of the coffee place!

[Tobin S.]

2. I guess you could have asked her if she wanted to dance. :)

Or you could have gone all Skittles on her and said, "Excuse me, but BACK THE FUCK OFF!"

I don't think some people realize that other people kind of need a little halo of space around them to feel comfortable. She may not of been trying to be rude and was just ignorant of the fact that people need their space.

[closeupready]

4. Yeah, maybe so.

Cheers.

[orleans]

24. i would have turned around and said, with a smile, "am i in your way?"

if she didn't "get" it i then would have asked her to please stop bumping into me.

it's okay to say something to a stranger, especially when they are invading your space. btw i'm single, female, and can't stand it when my personal space gets invaded.

space invaders can drive me crazy too

[UTUSN]

5. Not overreacting by me!1

I'm suspicious of MY, not "overreacting" but perhaps being crotchety or brittle, and have had some incidents.

In this popular not-exactly-discount store where the clothes in all departments are crammed onto racks, seems like little kids like to crawl under the hanging clothes and play peekaboo or whatever it is. Many-a-time (does that phrase say something about me), I have barked, "Go to your mother!1 Your mother is calling you!1" I've never had a complaint from the mostly-young mothers, whom I suspect crave that their co-parents would take a larger role of INTEREST (if not discipline). Another time a little 3 yr old boy was running around maniacally and decided to target me with pointing his hand in gun-shape and going "BANG BANG" and running to "take cover" then again and again. Both parents were present but not intervening. I said something like stop "shooting" like that, and thought the guy might not like it, but they said nothing at all.

But then, one time that got fairly ugly, in a outdoor/sports type store, behind me in line was a couple and their cart and their 12-13 yr old daughter was hyper around and she crossed the queue back and forth a couple of times, behind me and brushing against me. I turned and said to her in front of her (parents?), "Stop bumping me!1" Now, the woman was taller than both me and her (spouse?), if that means anything, but she was certainly assertive and yelled, "She DIDN'T PUSH YOU!1" Now, granted, I used the wrong word, she BRUSHED me (at least twice), didn't BUMP. Obviously, I couldn't go further, so just locked eyes with the mother then looked at the wimpy (father?). I'm near 70, they were in their 40s(?). Actually, what I wanted to have said was, "You should teach your child not to touch men (or anybody?) she doesn't know."

[closeupready]

6. OMG, yes, if this woman were a child, she'd have been that girl who brushed you with her cart.

It's just a thoughtless (and pointless, to be honest) violation of your space, and if it's an accident, that's one thing, but this woman kept edging right up into me, as I inched foward. I wanted to say something like, "I am not your husband or boyfriend, please STOP TOUCHING ME!" but of course, you only think of lines like that after an hour or two have passed.

[NJCher]

42. Good one

"You should teach your child not to touch men (or anybody?) she doesn't know."

I like that one.

It's "suitably ominous."

But, of course, with people this dense and insensitive, it will go right over their heads.



Cher

[Sanity Claws]

7. This happens to me in the subway a lot

The vast majority of the time I respond with an elbow or my purse to let them know they are too close. Some people are just oblivious and a gentle reminder is all that is required.

Only once did that not work. This jerk ( a tourist from Britain) kept using his arms and hands wildly while talking to his two companions. I moved once but he hit me again. I shot him a dirty look that his companion caught but he was too oblivious to notice. He jabbed me 4 times, before I exploded and told him to stop hitting me in the back. He then turned around and hit me a 5th time. He finally noticed and apologized. I just hated that I had exploded like that but there was no way to reach him.

[closeupready]

8. Ok, thanks, that makes me feel better.

I kind of felt bad for getting upset about her behavior, but I see that it's not just me. Thanks again.

[liberalhistorian]

9. No, it isn't just you at all.

Most people have to have a certain area of personal space around them, and there's a general social understanding of that. One of the problems I had (and still have, to some extent) with my now-grown son with Asperger's (a type of high-functioning autism) was getting him to understand that and to try not to violate people's space. He really had no understanding of that at all, and would get right up next to people and then not be able to read their signs of discomfort. Fortunately, he's a lot better now with that although he'll always have some issues in that regard.

I am one of those people who are VERY particular about that space. Some people are fairly easygoing about such violations, I am assuredly not one of them. And I'm also one of those people who don't like to be touched if I don't want to be touched, kwim? I have a rather severe learning disability, so I've always thought that that may have something to do with it, as sensory issues are prominent in my disability. I just turned fifty and I've had a lifetime of having to suck it up, though, and not get irritated or even show irritation about it, especially in professional situations. That is actually quite exhausting.

It's exhausting enough that sometimes I just snap and can't do it, especially after a long day. Case in point: this weekend, hubby and I were visiting one of our rural state's cities, as well as his father who lives there, and the hotel we were staying at had an indoor pool and a hot tub. The pool had a huge water slide, which attracted a lot of families with young children. I waited until after 9:30 to try to use the pool and hot tub, figuring that the loud, splashing kids who take over the pool during the day would be gone by then. WRONG. They were not only not gone, there were more than ever and it would have simply been uncomfortable in the extreme to try to swim. So I headed for the hot tub, thinking it would be safe. NOPE. It was a small hot tub and there were a TON of kids in it, with their parents sitting around the outside. I thought of not going in at all, but then thought, fuck it. It's our one and only night here and I'm desperate for a damn hot tub, especially with this cold winter and my aching bones. And I've also paid for it as well.

So, I get in and try to make the best of it. I say nothing at all about the kids, even though it's clearly posted that children under thirteen were not permitted to use it. I can't stand busybodies, and it's the parents' problem and business, not mine. I just wanted to sink into the hot water and relax. But these kids were jumping and splashing and bumping, acting just like it was a pool and not a hot tub. I said and did nothing while trying to focus on tuning them out and relaxing. But then they started splashing me and bumping into me over and over again. I politely asked them to stop, but they paid NO attention and their parents couldn't have cared less. They kept doing it and I finally snapped and heard myself yelling at them "damnit, this is not the pool, please stop bugging me".

Now, that wasn't quite how I'd wanted to phrase it, but I'd finally just snapped. Well. You would have thought I'd smacked them all with baseball bats given how their parents reacted. I guess their precious special snowflakes could do whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted and it didn't matter.

[pipi_k]

23. Yah same here

Stay OUT of my space.

Do NOT touch me.

I have sensory issues also, so some touch can actually hurt, and some noises and bright light can be painful for me.

It's what bothers me a whole lot when people who say they don't mind listening to a screaming kid call people it does bother "shallow". No. It's not being "shallow". It's Sensory Processing Disorder

Like you, I will often not say anything until that last straw on the camel's back, and then I'll explode

[bigwillq]

16. Did you say something to HER or just to the guy in front of you? (nt)

[closeupready]

17. Just to the guy in front of me who had loudly protested that I was invading his space.

I'm not sure if she heard me, but I think she did (as did several others in the line).

[bigwillq]

18. Next time, say it to the person directly

Make a fool of them if you have to so they get the point.

[closeupready]

20. Right, but it's more difficult when you are outnumbered, than if she'd been alone.

If I had said something, her friends would pile on, and I just ran and hid as best I could until she departed.

[bigwillq]

22. Who cares if her friends pile on?

If she's in your space, and being otherwise obnoxious, she needs to know. Sometimes people don't realize they are being rude. And sometimes they do, and don't care, but let them know.

DON'T EVER RUN AND HIDE!

[NJCher]

45. I'm not so sure about that

If I had said something, her friends would pile on, and I just ran and hid as best I could until she departed.

I'm sure this is not her first incident of bad public behavior. Her friends might be suitably embarrassed.






Cher

[Taitertots]

19. You should have pulled out the trump card of being ahead of someone in a line - Fart

[closeupready]

21. Right, but my GI tract has been obedient lately, so I was trumped out, at the time.

I can't believe I just typed that...

[Turbineguy]

26. Sounds like pretty standard

total self-absorption on her part.

[alarimer]

27. I do not think you are overreacting.

It's a violation of personal space. I hate it, too.

[Iggo]

28. Long as she's of age she can bump up against me all she wants.

[closeupready]

29. I'll send her your way pronto.

[benld74]

30. Many thoughtless people out there,

[blackcrow]

31. foreign born?

Different countries have different personal space zones.

[closeupready]

32. Don't honestly know - ethnically appeared far Asian, but her friends

were basically Anglo/white.

At any rate, when Americans travel, the burden - we are told - is on us to adopt customs and behavior of the places we are visiting. To do otherwise is to be the "ugly American". "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" and all that.

At any rate, I don't want to sound xenophobic, I just want my space. New York is probably the most diverse city in the US, so after a few years, one is accustomed to encountering people with different notions of socially appropriate behavior. In this case, I really felt violated.

So much so that I had a moment today to get a coffee, and guess where I refused to go.

[blackcrow]

33. they often have no idea

that this is different in different countries.

Are you overreacting? Yes. At worst, a thoughtless person. Especially in New York, this is the norm.

[Skittles]

37. saying it's the norm in New York is hardly a selling point

[cwydro]

43. Bwahaha!

Well said.

[NJCher]

46. he's not overreacting

Fact is, we need more people who are sensitive, not people who think it's OK to track someone down at the napkin stand.



Cher

[callous taoboy]

34. Makes me feel better about living in the sticks:

I live in a town of 11,000 and personal space is a given.

[Skittles]

36. I would have kicked her pushy ass

right there on the spot

[Generic Brad]

44. Maybe she liked you!

It might have been a flirt fail.

[closeupready]

47. I told a friend of mine about this encounter - later,

I said, 'you know, I ought to get a big hat that says, in all caps, 'GAY - GAY GAY GAY!'

On the other hand, why do I get the idea that her first question would be, 'so, are you gay?' ('why? whatever gave you that idea?')