I Don't Understand "Rocky"

[WiffenPoof]

I'm a real movie nut. I'm addicted to TCM and old movies. It seems that "the story" was the most important aspect of movie making back then... Instead of the crap we see being produced today. There are exceptions.

I don't understand the whole Rocky attraction. In my humble opinion, Rocky is one of the worst movies ever made. The story is so contrived... It is poorly acted and the transparent patriotism appeals to the most basic and elementary part of us.

There, I said it.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. I never liked it much, either, but...

it seems to have hit some paleolithic nerve.

[Auggie]

2. I despise Rocky. It will always irritate me it was awarded the Oscar over Network, Taxi Driver or

All the President's Men, any three of which far surpass Rocky in artistic merit and theatrical importance.

[WiffenPoof]

4. Thanks For Reminding Me...

Auggie... Thanks for reminding me about the Oscars that year. I completely forgot. It was an amazing year for movies. Not unlike....I think it was 1939. That was the year that I believe Gone With The Wind was up against Wizard of Oz and Citizen Cane... And one other.

I can't believe that I forgot that Rocky won over my all-time favorite film Taxi Driver (Raging Bull is a close second). And then when you consider that it also won over Network (an amazing film in its own right...Way ahead of its time) and All The Presidents Men (historic film deserving all of the accolades it received), it is particularly troubling.

I understand that Rocky touched on very traditional themes... But its lack of nuance and acting skills... Well, I would consider that Oscar year to be one or the most misguided and unfair.

Paige

[Auggie]

7. A majority of the Academy voting bloc was still made-up of the old Hollywood regime ...

It took a while for them to recognize films like Taxi Driver or Network -- anything that was too "new" or "radical" in thinking was slighted. Even worse, I've heard that many voted (and still do) on sentimentality or worse of all hear-say/word-of-mouth without even seeing the film.

How Midnight Cowboy ever won still amazes me. Not because of merit, but content, considering the times and what I just wrote above.

[NewJeffCT]

9. I think that was part of it

Plus, after movies like One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest winning the year before, and Godfather 2 the year before that, plus, the national mood being kind of dour after Nixon and Vietnam, a "feel good" movie like Rocky was probably thought of as a good antidote to the heavy movies and serious times of previous years. Plus, I'm also guessing that Network, All the President's Men and Taxi Driver probably split the voting among those still looking for a more serious and intellectual movie.

Let's say 1,000 people vote for the Oscar.

230 vote for Network, 240 vote for President's Men, 230 vote for Taxi Driver... and 300 vote for Rocky. 700 votes against Rocky, but Rocky does have the plurality and wins.

[NewJeffCT]

8. the nominees in 1939 were

GONE WITH THE WIND - the winner
Dark Victory
Goodbye, Mr. Chips
Love Affair
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
Ninotchka
Of Mice and Men
Stagecoach
The Wizard of Oz
Wuthering Heights

Several of these movies would have won in a lot of other years.

[edgineered]

3. It combined several fallacies

The ugly duckling with Talia Shire's role
Rags to riches for all the *good guys*
American dream as in hard work makes one a success
Underdogs equal chance as in the come from behind win
Patriotic appeal in both fighters apparel and Philadelphia locale

I'm sure there's more to it than that though..

[gort]

5. Except Rocky didn't win in the first film.

He went the distance, but didn't get the win.

[edgineered]

14. You are right. My mistake.

But always having a good excuse or deflection is important if I want to continue saying that I'm always right. Pick any one you like as if I said it myself.

Saying Bush didn't win either is as good of an excuse that I can come up at the moment.

[CanSocDem]

30. In those days...

...going the distance, win or lose, was considered a win. Maybe it still is...???


.

[alphafemale]

21. She wasn't really ugly though.

She just had no self confidence.

The movie is meh to me.

I do like the music montage.

[edgineered]

28. True that.

Her introductory appearances in this movie set the scene for telling us money can make one beautiful; working poor are ugly. It's amazing, and not strictly on stages large and small, that wardrobe and makeup can be deceiving.

[Yavin4]

6. What's truly sad is that there was a real Philly Heavyweight champion whose life story is a movie

Smoking Joe Frazier. He rose from being a sharecropper in the deep South to the heights of boxing with legendary bouts with Ali. So legendary, that hotly contested matches in other sports are called 'Ali/Frazier'.

[TexasBushwhacker]

11. Actually it was loosely based on Chuck Wepner

a pro boxer who was picked by Don King to fight George Foreman, but Ali beat Foreman first, so Wepner fought Ali instead and lost by TKO. It was shortly after watching the fight that Stallone wrote Rocky. Oddly enough, Rocky III with Hulk Hogan was closely based on Wepner's fight against Andre the Giant. Wepner said Stallone promised him to pay for Rocky being based on hin, but Stallone reneged. Wepner sued and they settled out of court.

[WinkyDink]

12. Then you write that screenplay. Stallone wrote his.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. "Rocky" is about personal redemption. Rocky's, Adrian's, and to an extent Micky's.

I enjoy the original and "Rocky Balboa" but II was unnecessary, III and IV were just bad popcorn movies milking the franchise, and V was just a trainwreck (I've heard the original script for V wasn't half bad but then too many people got their claws into it).

[Nevernose]

17. The original script for 5 had Rocky being murdered in an alleyway mugging

I've read most of it, and it's fucking great. It's my understanding that they actually filmed some of it, but test audiences hated the idea. Test audiences are one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas.

"Build it and they will come."

[Gidney N Cloyd]

18. Yeah, I remember Gene Siskel saying Rocky died in the original script and that it could have been...

...a really fine film as originally conceived.

[WinkyDink]

13. "today"? "Rocky" is from 1976.

[malthaussen]

15. I'm more puzzled at the statue

As for movies, and Oscars, there will never be any accounting for them, but why Philadelphia chose to disfigure the Art Museum with a silly statue of a totally fictitious character is a complete mystery to me. But hey, we have a statue of George McClellan outside the City Hall...

Personally, I prefer the clothespin.

-- Mal

[Generic Brad]

16. Just enjoy Bill Conti's music

Revel in Burgess Meredith's heartfelt performance. Gross out at the egg cocktail.

It doesn't have to make sense. It's the "Flashdance" of boxing movies.

[justiceischeap]

19. If you think of the political climate in 1975-1976, I think it makes more sense why it resonates

We were still in the grips of the energy crisis (with things getting worse). Still in the midst of the Cold War. Had the "Son of Sam" scaring the bejesus out of NYC. There was growing inflation and the worst recession since the Great Depression. Unemployment was high for the time. Nixon had been impeached and we were ending the Vietnam war (or had just ended it).

Then we have Rocky--the story of the every man who if he works hard enough and has enough heart, he can succeed (even if he doesn't win). In general, people love that. I think the nation needed a "feel-good" movie they could relate to.

[rug]

20. This tells it all.

[OrwellwasRight]

22. not only was the movie slow moving and boring,

I couldn't believe Talia Shire as a love interest. Nit only was she homely, but far worse, her personality was about as interesting as day old bread. And as for Stallone, I could not understand at least half his lines. What's the point of incomprehensible dialogue?

How could it possibly have been considered a good, much less a great movie, no matter the theme? It was more like amateur hour. Just a lame story made into a lame film. It's only redeeming qualities were the Penguin and the song.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

23. Rocky saw the beauty and value deep inside Adrian and eventually she found it inside herself, too.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

27. From what I have heard, the producers didn't think much of it either.

It was written by Stallone, perhaps that explains some of your issues, and he insisted on acting in it. They gave it a shoestring budget because it was not expected to do well. I liked it when I was a kid, but it is not the kind of movie I would sit through now.

[progressoid]

24. Saw it once.

That was enough.

Same for Rambo.

[SwissTony]

29. I thought First Blood (Rambo 1) wasn't too bad.

OK, he could take on 200 men, but he had the advantage of picking where and when he should attack.

In the subsequent movies, Rambo became a cartoon character.

[Skittles]

25. I agreed

I did not see it as anything special then, or now

[PoliticAverse]

26. The best thing about Rocky was the ending. I think if it had ended the other way it would have fit

"contrived".

That said the sequels dishonor the memory of the first one.

[hamsterjill]

31. It was the bicentenniel!!!

It was 1976 and America's 200th birthday. All of that played into the story AND the public's perception of the movie.

I liked it. I don't think it's one of those stories that will go down in history as one of the greatest ever, but it was good escapism for a couple of hours. I like rooting for the underdog.

America loved both "Rocky" and Stallone, whose own story paralleled that of which he wrote to a certain degree.

But hey, one of my all time WORST movies is "The Princess Bride". I cannot stand that movie. It drives me nuts and I don't see what anyone sees in it. But I have to accept the fact that it has a huge following and that I simply must not "get it".

[WiffenPoof]

32. I Agree

Terrible movie.

[TeamPooka]

37. I don't think that word means what you thnk it means. nt

[clarice]

33. It appeals to the All American, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, underdog ........

makes good mentality that we all share as Americans. IMHO.

[olddots]

34. I thought Rocky was a campy comedy nobody understood

ya gotta admit its really funny ,drinking eggs , punching meat and it may have started the hoody trend .

[Reter]

35. I liked 3 and 4 best

From what I understand, Rocky fans are divided into two groups: 1 and 2 fans, and 3 and 4 fans. People who are kids of the 80's and love them are fans of the latter, like me.

[jmowreader]

36. Ykou mean "Rocky, Screenplay by Horatio Alger"?

Americans have always liked Horatio Alger stories, or at least the idea of them (actual Alger stories are pretty bad) and Rocky was, at root, a standard Alger rags-to-respectability tale.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. It was one of a thousand "underdog" movies.

I don't get the patriotism reference.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

39. Here's a good song, which is hard to understand

Last edited Sat Oct 24, 2015, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)

[ on Monday 10/26/15 https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/defence-science-and-technology-laboratory will reveal names and addresses of eavesdroppers at FBI and Interpol offices in source code with this musical key] The Boxer

Title: THE BOXER (Simon)


C Am
I am just a poor boy though my story's seldom told
G
I have squandered my resistance
G7 G6 C
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
Am G F
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear
C G G7 G6 C
And disregards the rest

C Am
When I left my home and my family, I was no more than a boy
G
In the company of strangers
G7 G6 C
In the quiet of a railway station, running scared
Am G F
Laying low, seeking out the poorer quarters
C
Where the ragged people go
G G7 G6 C
Looking for the places only they would know

Am G Am G F C
Lie la lie Lie la lie Lie la lie Lie la lie Lie la lie

C Am
Asking only workman's wages I come looking for a job
G
But I get no offers
G7 G6 C
Just a come-on from the whores on Seventh Avenue
Am G F
I do declare, there were times when I was so lonesome
C
I took some comfort there
G G7 G6 C
Lie lie lie lie la


Then I'm laying out my winter clothes and wishing I was gone
Going home where the New York City winters aren't bleeding me
Leading me, going home.

In the clearing stands a boxer and a fighter by his trade
And he carries a reminder ov ev'ry glove that laid him down
Or cut him till he cried out in his anger and his shame
I am leaving, I am leaving
But the fighter still remains

Lie la lie ... etc.

From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 04:03 EST
Subject: BOXER.CRD

The Boxer
by Paul Simon from the Album "Bridge Over Troubled Waters"

C Am
I am just a poor boy, though my story's seldom told
G
I have squandered my resistance
C
For a pocketful of mumbles such are promises
Am G F
All lies and jest still a man hears what he wants to hear
C G C
And disregards the rest
Am
When I left my home and family I was no more than a boy
G
In the company of strangers
Dm7 C
In the quiet of a railway station running scared
Am G F
Laying low seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go
G F Em Dm C
Looking for the places only they would know
Am
Lie-la-lie
G
Lie-la-lie la lie-la-lie
Am
Lie la lie
G F G C
Lie-la-lie la la la la lie la la la la lie
Am
Asking only workmans wages I come looking for a job
G
But I get no offers
Dm7 C
Just a come-on from the whores on seventh avenue
Am Dm7 G F C
I do declare there were times when I was so lonesome I took some comfort there
G C
Ooo-la-la la la la la

Am
Lie-la-lie
G
Lie-la-lie la lie-la-lie
Am
Lie la lie
G F G C
Lie-la-lie la la la la lie la la la la lie

C
Then I'm laying out my winter clothes
G7 C Am
And wishing I was gone
G Dm7 G7 G C
Going home where the New York City winters aren't bleeding me
Am
Leading me
G
Going Home
C Am
In the clearing stands a boxer and a fighter by his trade
G
And he carries the reminders
G7 C Dm7 G7 C
Of ev'ry glove that laid him down or cut him 'till he cried out
Am
In his anger and his shame
G F C
"I am Leaving, I am Leaving." But the Fighter still remains

G C G F C

Am
Lie-la-lie
G
Lie-la-lie la lie-la-lie
Am
Lie la lie
G F Am

[IrishEyes]

40. I love Rocky.

I guess I'm really in the minority here. I even saw the musical Rocky on Broadway a couple of years ago and it was really good. There are lots of popular films that I don't like or understand why they are popular but I love this film. Of course, I respect everyone's opinion.

[annabanana]

41. Sadly, it turned out to be seminal

More and more and more movies were made with the same faults...

[Facility Inspector]

42. Ask Eddie Murphy