Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:53 PM

Vincardog (20,233 posts)

Please follow this link to vote for my Guaranteed Minimum income proposal for the The Big Ideas Proje

http://thinkbig.us/ideas/17345/

[link:http://thinkbig.us/ideas/17345/
Thanks

13 replies, 3378 views

Thread info Bookmark this thread Trash this thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

13 replies	Author	Time	Post
Please follow this link to vote for my Guaranteed Minimum income proposal for the The Big Ideas Proje (Original post)	Vincardog	Dec 2014	OP
Did you include the source of the funding?	upaloopa	Dec 2014	#1
Import taffifs on goods from low wage countries. Unfortunately, if a serious proposal,	kelly1mm	Dec 2014	#2
Another problem is selling the idea to people	upaloopa	Dec 2014	#3
IF they don't need or want it they can contribute it to ASPCA	Vincardog	Dec 2014	#4
how do you define millionaire? Anyone who declared $1 Million income last year	Vincardog	Dec 2014	#5
I assume per person in a joint return? If so, you are taliking about less than 300,000 people	kelly1mm	Dec 2014	#6
OK Americans age 18 +	Vincardog	Dec 2014	#7
76% of US population is over 18. So, we went from 11.5 Trillion to almost 9 Trillion	kelly1mm	Dec 2014	#8
OK 18+ and last years income < $200,000	Vincardog	Dec 2014	#9
$200,000 plus (per person) is less than 2 milion people. That changes it to needing 8.6 Trillion	kelly1mm	Dec 2014	#10
So did you click the link and vote to discuss it? OR is an internet vote too expensive?	Vincardog	Dec 2014	#11
Of course I clicked the link. That is how I found out your funding source and amount. No	kelly1mm	Dec 2014	#13
This message was self-deleted by its author	kelly1mm	Dec 2014	#12

Response to Vincardog (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:58 PM

upaloopa (11,417 posts)

1. Did you include the source of the funding?

I think if we are going to continue to have low wage jobs and structural unemployment then we are going to have to have a new model since our economy is based on consumer spending.
But if we are to promote a guaranteed income that is only half of an idea. That is the easy part . The hard part is coming up with the source if revenue to fund it. What is that source and is it included in your proposal?

Reply to this post

Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:07 PM

kelly1mm (3,688 posts)

2. Import taffifs on goods from low wage countries. Unfortunately, if a serious proposal,

that would not nearly cover the $3000 per month monthly payments for non-millionaires (not to mention, how do you define millionaire?)

Reply to this post

Response to kelly1mm (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:12 PM

upaloopa (11,417 posts)

3. Another problem is selling the idea to people

who don't need the money.

Reply to this post

Response to upaloopa (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:14 PM

Vincardog (20,233 posts)

4. IF they don't need or want it they can contribute it to ASPCA

Reply to this post

Response to kelly1mm (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:15 PM

Vincardog (20,233 posts)

5. how do you define millionaire? Anyone who declared $1 Million income last year

Reply to this post

Response to Vincardog (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:29 PM

kelly1mm (3,688 posts)

6. I assume per person in a joint return? If so, you are taliking about less than 300,000 people

total in the US who would not qualify. (435,000 if your plan has a 'marriage penalty').

330,000,000 Americans
- 435,000 Millionaires

= 329,565,000 monthly checks of $3000 each

= 989 BILLION per month
= 11.5 TRILLION per year

Total US GDP is about 14 Trillion per year.

See any problems yet?

Reply to this post

Response to kelly1mm (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:31 PM

Vincardog (20,233 posts)

7. OK Americans age 18 +

Reply to this post

Response to Vincardog (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:41 PM

kelly1mm (3,688 posts)

8. 76% of US population is over 18. So, we went from 11.5 Trillion to almost 9 Trillion

per year out of 14 Trillion GDP.

So, you want to pay for this with import tariffs. in 2013, the US imported 2.7 Trillion in goods (from all countries, not just low wage countries, but I am just trying to prove a point)

So, to generate 9 Trillion on 2.7 Trillion of imports we need a 350% tariff.

See a problem with that?

Reply to this post

Response to kelly1mm (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:43 PM

Vincardog (20,233 posts)

9. OK 18+ and last years income < $200,000

If we need more money tax everyone making more than $200K for the difference

Reply to this post

Response to Vincardog (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:52 PM

kelly1mm (3,688 posts)

10. $200,000 plus (per person) is less than 2 milion people. That changes it to needing 8.6 Trillion

total per year and your tax rate on all imports can go down to 310%.

bottom line is that $3000 per month is WAY too much. Most Basic Income schemes put the GIG at about 10k per person.

That and you need to expand your tax sources.

There is lots of literature on BIG on the net. You are not the first to think of this.

Good thoughts though - eventually we will need to do something.......

Reply to this post

Response to kelly1mm (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:53 PM

Vincardog (20,233 posts)

11. So did you click the link and vote to discuss it? OR is an internet vote too expensive?

Reply to this post

Response to Vincardog (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:04 PM

kelly1mm (3,688 posts)

13. Of course I clicked the link. That is how I found out your funding source and amount. No

I did not vote for it as:

1) way too high
2) way to narrow a base for taxes to pay for it

In theory, I support BIG. The devil is in the details .....

Reply to this post

Response to Vincardog (Original post)

kelly1mm This message was self-deleted by its author.

Economic Activism and Progressive Living (Group)