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Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:48 PM

 

Was "Stairway to Heaven" a ripoff of the song " Taurus" by Spirit

here's Taurus:

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Reply Was "Stairway to Heaven" a ripoff of the song " Taurus" by Spirit (Original post)
63splitwindow Jun 2016 OP
Trajan Jun 2016 #1
63splitwindow Jun 2016 #2
Beakybird Jun 2016 #3
cyberpunk Jun 2016 #4
BootinUp Jun 2016 #5
63splitwindow Jun 2016 #6
postatomic Jul 2016 #7
63splitwindow Jul 2016 #8
postatomic Jul 2016 #9
63splitwindow Jul 2016 #10
postatomic Jul 2016 #11
63splitwindow Jul 2016 #12
postatomic Jul 2016 #13
63splitwindow Jul 2016 #14
postatomic Jul 2016 #15
63splitwindow Jul 2016 #16
postatomic Jul 2016 #17
63splitwindow Jul 2016 #18

Response to 63splitwindow (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:57 PM

1. While there is similarity in a few chords in the verse ...

 

It is also clearly different in where it came from before those chords, and where it went after those chords ...

They say rock music uses the same three chords, over and over again (in fact most modern music is that way) ... The adoption of common musical cliches cannot establish the foundation for a Plagiarism conviction .. . The chord progression they share is known as a 'walk', and they are used by many artists in various forms ....

Yes, there are similarities ...

No .. it was not theft/plagiarism ...

My opinion ...

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Response to Trajan (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:07 PM

2. One blurb I heard on the news...

 

was that the signature downward chord progression prominent in both songs is heard in many diverse songs going back a thousand years. That surprised me. But yes, Zep surrounded that progression in a different way. I do remember. though. someone significant saying, years ago, that Zep plagiarized many of their riffs. It may have even been Robert Plant.

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Response to 63splitwindow (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:28 PM

3. Same key. Same tempo.

And, the phrase, "Oh, and it makes me wonder," sounds a lot like a bit of another song from the same Spirit album.
I heard that when Zeppelin was starting, they once backed up Spirit in concert, and they covered a Spirit song on one of their albums.
If I were Zeppelin, I would settle out of court. I believe that Spirit can only go after proceeds of the song since 2014 when it was remastered.

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Response to 63splitwindow (Original post)

Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:49 AM

4. I doubt it.

 

Isn't there one chord progression that has been prevalent in pop music stretching back some thirty years? You know how to play one, you know how to play 'em all.

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Response to 63splitwindow (Original post)

Thu Jun 16, 2016, 11:27 PM

5. Seems that parts are awfully similar to me. nt

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Response to 63splitwindow (Original post)

Thu Jun 23, 2016, 04:37 PM

6. Zep wins

 

" The courtroom did echo with victory for Led Zeppelin on Thursday, as a jury of eight people determined that the group did not rip off the 1968 Spirit song “Taurus” with its signature 1971 anthem “Stairway to Heaven.”

The verdict brought to an end a two-year legal saga that began in 2014, when Michael Skidmore — trustee of the Randy Craig Wolfe Trust — filed suit, claiming that “Stairway” infringed on “Taurus,” which was written by Spirit frontman Wolfe, who performed under the name Randy California.

The jury found that, while Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page and vocalist Robert Plant did have access to “Taurus” before writing “Stairway,” the songs are not substantially similar.
...
..."

Full story: http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/led-zeppelin-wins-%E2%80%98stairway-to-heaven%E2%80%99-copyright-trial/ar-AAhxJpz?ocid=ansmsnent11

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Response to 63splitwindow (Original post)

Wed Jul 13, 2016, 08:39 PM

7. Given the amount of music created over the years

I think it would be almost impossible to not mimic another song while writing. Wasn't this like the 7th or 5th suit against Led Zeppelin?

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Response to postatomic (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 13, 2016, 08:44 PM

8. Did you listen to the Spirit song linked above?

 

What bothers me the most is that Plant/Page lawyers convinced the trial judge to not let the jury LISTEN to the two songs. That is bullshit IMHO.

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Response to 63splitwindow (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 13, 2016, 08:56 PM

9. This has been going on forever

Yes. I listened to it. With the obscene amounts of money in conventional music this will happen again. This shit went on back in the Classical Masters days. I just don't see the Led Zeppelin thing rising to the level of stealing creative property. Also, given the amount of incredible music Led Z produced I can't see them ripping other people off. It's not in their DNA.

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Response to postatomic (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 13, 2016, 09:07 PM

10. Did you know they weren't seeking 100% of the royalties?

 

just a 30% writing credit I think.

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Response to 63splitwindow (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 13, 2016, 09:18 PM

11. To be honest I didn't follow it that close

In terms of ripoffs I could blast crap like iTune and Amazon streaming (that are usually of inferior quality) and large Vampire Record Labels. That two songs have a like partial notation just doesn't get my short hairs standing up.

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Response to postatomic (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 13, 2016, 09:23 PM

12. You aren't a member of Randy California's heirs. nt

 

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Response to 63splitwindow (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 14, 2016, 08:53 PM

13. I don't know what your problem is

I did a little more research. This lawsuit was brought about by the Wolfe Trustee; Michael Skidmore at the suggestion of a major sleazeball attorney: Francis Malofiy. Actually calling Mr. Malofiy a major sleazeball is being kind. The Trustee and the Attorney were the only ones who would really benefit financially from this bogus lawsuit.

Do you understand or know anything about music or are you just seeing Led Zeppelin as part of the 1% .

Here ya' go Sparky. Click on the play button for the first song listed, Sonata for Guitar, Violin, and Continuo (written a few hundred years ago) and take a listen. Tell me what you hear:

http://www.classicalarchives.com/work/172542.html

I also find it humorous in the lawsuit that they said Randy Wolfe turned Led Zeppelin onto the Theremin. I have one myself. Run it through a Mellotron Filter - crazy awesome sound.

Did learn something though. Randy Wolfe got the name Randy California from Jimi Hendrix. I didn't know that.

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Response to postatomic (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 14, 2016, 09:03 PM

14. whoa- to use you lingo-- your short hairs seem to have perked up

 

So as a musician yourself, you don't think the jury should have been able to listen to the 2 songs?

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Response to 63splitwindow (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 14, 2016, 09:35 PM

15. Did you listen to the song I linked? nt

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Response to postatomic (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 14, 2016, 10:21 PM

16. used your link to get name but went to this one to listen...

 



The (what I call) signature phrase is there, for sure. In Taurus that phrase is repeated several times in a row, just like in Stairway. According to what I read, Spirit performed with Zep back in the day and Page did have their album containing Taurus in his ( I am sure huge) collection. Did he have that piece in his collection?

I answered your question, how about you mine? Should the jury have been allowed to LISTEN to the two songs?

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Response to 63splitwindow (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:36 PM

17. You're a real piece of work

In the courtroom, the jury was serenaded by all manner of Stairway to Heaven versions, including those played live by the experts on guitar and electric piano, scratchy recordings guitarist Jimmy Page made while assembling the composition 46 years ago, and finally the famous eight-minute album track itself. When the jurors heard Taurus, however, it was only the experts’ versions of the sheet music, because the composition—and not the recording—was at issue in the case.

Until 1978, songwriters could submit only sheet music to copyright a song in the U.S. Since then, they've also been able to submit a sound recording.

For the music business, the stakes seemed high in the Stairway dispute. Just last year, a jury in the same courthouse surprised the industry by awarding $7.4 million (later reduced to about $5.3 million) for the infringement of Marvin Gaye's 1977 Got to Give it Up by Pharrell Williams and Robin Thicke with their 2013 hit Blurred Lines. In the Stairway case, the trust of the late Spirit guitarist and Taurus author Randy Wolfe (known as Randy California) was seeking millions of dollars. Any loss for Led Zeppelin could have opened the doors to endless ancient claims tied to old songs. Yet Led Zeppelin's win doesn't necessarily mean the recent uptick in copyright cases will slow—again, because the sheet-music standard generally involves older compositions.

It also doesn't mean the Spirit-Zeppelin battle is over. The lawyer representing the trust, Francis Malofiy, has said that any appeal could include a protest over having been limited to the deposit copy. Among the points he sought to make at trial was that the sheet music is a distant translation of the original guitar composition, and is even written as if for piano. When played in court, the sheet music sounded more like a sibling of the album version, with notes from a harpsichord arrangement mixed in with the guitar tones.


I'm pretty sure that Malofiy has been suspended at being an attorney for a bit over the sleazy crap he pulled.

Until we meet again


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Response to postatomic (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 15, 2016, 10:56 PM

18. You lose, you go straight to insults.

 

You are a supporter of Don the Con, aren't you? Looking at sheet music is the same as listening to Taurus by Spirit in court maybe, but not here:



Here's the stuff you hoped no one else would see.

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