Pigeon shoot bill got buried by frightened PA legislators - Columnist Bill White

[Number9Dream]

"The House's timidity represents a victory for the National Rifle Association, which for years has been advancing the preposterous notion that banning the practice of shooting captive animals in rings or tied to hay bales is the first step on a slippery slope toward banning all hunting."

"It ended with House Bill 1750, which last week won 36-12 approval in the state Senate, safely buried in the House Rules Committee, where it will expire without a vote. Until at least the Legislature's next session, it will be legal to raise dogs and cats for human consumption, to "hunt" tethered animals and to blast pigeons fired into the air for the shooting enjoyment of fat-bottomed Elmer Fudds."

"The state is so ruthlessly gerrymandered that our legislators have little accountability for their actions or inactions. Still, I hope those of you who are sick of this grotesque form of "hunting" will let your representatives know how disappointed you are with the way House Majority Leader Mike Turzai, R-Allegheny, caved in."

http://www.mcall.com/opinion/white/mc-bw-pigeon-shoot-vote-20141025-column.html

[Fred Sanders]

1. Republicans are evil as the NRA. They both must go.

[femmocrat]

2. This is just barbaric.

Spineless a-holes.

[packman]

3. Shit-I waxed poetic and in praise

of Pennsylvania coming out the Dark Ages when I thought this was a done deal a few weeks ago. Should have known better, the NRA has its roots around too many throats in Pennsylvania with its gun culture. What a shame, barbarism at its worst. I hope the FBI with its new directive to investigate animal abuse as a federal felony has some say in this.

[JPZenger]

4. Thanks for posting. Here's a little more background from previous post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10746234

[Eleanors38]

5. Another aspect to the politics around this issue...

I oppose pigeon shooting as practiced in PA. Trouble is, the HSUS opposes it as well. HSUS is an extremist anti-hunting organization which is on record backing the prohibition of All hunting. Its 'never-give-a-inch' approach has stimulated an in-kind response from the NRA.

No surprise. As with gun-control politics, extremism begets extremism.

Note: Pigeons can be hunted in many states in a manner similar to dove. It is far more difficult, if that is a concern to some. They are quite good-eating.

[Number9Dream]

6. The Humane Society does NOT oppose all hunting, just abuses

The HSUS position on hunting from their website:

"The HSUS seeks to build a humane society that will move toward protecting and celebrating wildlife, and will develop humane solutions to wildlife conflicts through innovation. The HSUS actively works to eliminate the most inhumane and unfair sport hunting practices, such as the use of body-gripping traps and snares; bear baiting; the hound hunting of bears, bobcats, mountain lions and wolves; contest killing events; and captive-hunting on fenced properties. We oppose live pigeon shoots and other forms of staged hunting where the animals are bred or stocked simply to be shot as living targets. We also oppose the trophy hunting of rare or endangered populations and the use of lead ammunition, since less toxic alternatives are workable and available in the marketplace."

http://www.humanesociety.org/about/policy_statements/statement_wild_animals.html?credit=web_id86435304#Hunting

Nowhere does it say they oppose "all hunting". If opposition to body-gripping traps, canned hunts, pigeon shoots, and hunting endangered animals is extremist, then we have different definitions of extremist.

[Eleanors38]

7. That other extremist Wayne, head of HSUS:

"We're out to minimize suffering wherever our limited resources (well over $100,000,000) can be utilized most effectively -- abusive forms of hunting for now, all hunting eventually."
-- Wayne Pacelle

Bloodties, by Ted Kerasote, Random House, NY, 1993

He hasn't changed his tune, and continues the classic strategy followed by all extreme prohibitionists: "It's just a beginning." He also is against fishing (same source).

You'd like this book as it reveals the good, bad & ugly of hunting. Pacelle's group has little interest in animal welfare; Pacelle has little interest in animals in general. The innertubes have many quotes from him regarding his extremist stands. I cannot link with this mobile.

[Number9Dream]

8. Ted Kerasote seems to have a much higher opinion of Wayne Pacelle...

...than selective editing would have one believe.

Selective editing destroys the meaning and intent of the quotes. But just to be sure, we contacted Mr. Kerasote and asked for his perspective on the issue. He replied:

Thanks for writing and being such a careful reader. My interviews with Wayne for Bloodties were conducted between January 26 and January 29, 1992. That’s now nineteen years ago when he was with The Fund For Animals. Last July 30 I spent a day with him in Washington, D.C., interviewing him for the shelter chapter of my new book Why Dogs Die Young. As the CEO of HSUS, he is a far different person from the person he was at the helm of The Fund. He has become far more accommodating to those whose beliefs differ from his — for example, his having formed alliances with those in the organic, grass-fed, and humanely raised livestock movement so as to bring about legislation that improves the lives of factory-farmed animals. In short, he is much more of a political realist these days. He also has two cats. People change.

HSUS has done some good work in reducing the suffering of farm animals. In addition, they’ve campaigned against canned hunting, which I agree with — animals should not be shot in small enclosures. HSUS also just hosted a conference on purebred dogs, its theme being how we might improve their health by reducing inbreeding. It drew geneticists, veterinarians, and animal welfarists from Sweden, the UK, Canada, and America, and opened the eyes of some in the American purebred dog world to the advances that have been made in Europe and would be a welcome addition to the North American dog scene. Another positive thing HSUS has done is to support TNR (trap/neuter/release) of feral cats.

I don’t agree with everything HSUS does — but I believe it’s become a better organization under Wayne’s stewardship.

All my best,
Ted Kerasote

http://stophumanewatch.org/blog/myths/myth-quote

“One cannot read this book (The Bond - Wayne Pacelle) without coming away moved and compelled to reappraise one's own actions. The Bond also is a fine and thought-provoking portrayal of how one man, Wayne Pacelle, and one organization, the Humane Society of the United States, have helped to reduce the suffering of animals.”
~TED KERASOTE, author of Merle’s Door: Lessons from a Freethinking Dog

http://sos.uga.edu/pacelle/

[JPZenger]

9. No. 9 - How dare you challenge attacks with facts

[Eleanors38]

10. First, we take Manhattan...

I see nothing in the statements of Kerasote, HSUS, Pacelle, or in your statement which indicate a change in Pacelle's state-by-state strategy to eliminate sport hunting. I rather suspect this is an area where Kerasote "doesn't agree with everything," but Pacelle could clear up any confusion about his anti-hunting goals, if he so chooses. Until then, it's on to Berlin, or at least Stuttgart, Arkansas.

Everyone changes, hopefully for the better, and I am glad HSUS has seen fit to spend at least some of its largesse on directly benefitting animals and wildlife -- something Ducks Unlimited and other hunting organizations have been doing A Lot of for generations. Maybe the 14+ million dollar settlement HSUS shelled out to the circus will persuade the group to change even more. Who wants to spend millions for lawyers when it could go to expansion of wildlife management areas?

[Number9Dream]

11. Unsubstantiated claims plus personal interpretation equals no credibility

Let's review... First, your unsubstantiated claim (no links, no proven quotes) that the Humane Society is extremist and wants to ban all hunting. A position statement by the HSUS board of directors was presented (with link) that this wasn't true.

Next, you changed direction and made the same unsubstantiated claim about an individual. Using statements made by the author YOU cited, it was shown that Ted Kerasote does NOT consider Mr. Pacelle an extremist. "...one man, Wayne Pacelle, and one organization, the Humane Society of the United States, have helped to reduce the suffering of animals.” - Ted Kerasote. Statements made by Mr. Pacelle 19 years ago were shown (with link) to have been taken out of context and selectively edited.

Next, another change of direction with the same disproved, unsubstantiated statements simply rephrased. "State-by-state strategy to eliminate sport hunting"... again, no proof of this statement. As before, no links, no proven quotes, just personal interpretation. You choose to ignore reply #6. This is pointless. I'll waste no more time with replies which aren't credible. Take care.

[Eleanors38]

12. The quote to end hunting was reported by Kerasote.

I still have not seen Pacelle repudiate, deny or modify that quote. The HSUS adjunct web site you use deals with other issues. My concern is the extremist position on hunting as reported:

Has Pacelle changed it?