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Ironing Man

(164 posts)
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:52 AM Jun 2016

Host action against a member...

hi,

this morning i put my underpants over my trousers and used my superpowers to lock a DU member from posting on the UK board.

i did this because the member made a comment about a politician, denying their very obvious nationality and identity in a way that had the politicians' skin been brown, you'd see on Stormfront or FreakRepublic.

i'm happy to discuss this action with my fellow losts and other board users, and i think it would be best if we came to a common decision about whether that ban should remain, and whether any further action should take place.

cheers.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Host action against a member... (Original Post) Ironing Man Jun 2016 OP
Weighing in... LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #1
+1 TubbersUK Jun 2016 #2
I dunno PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #3
Banning for this is inappropiate. Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #4
I agree with my 2 fellow hosts above - ask Ken to delete it muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #5
When we decided by concensus that you folks were to be mods, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #6
And not to add to any pile-on, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #8
Ridiculous over-reaction. Nihil Jun 2016 #7
Now, come on, everyone, let's set a badly-needed example to our country's noble leaders... LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #9
I'd rather we didn't put these things to a vote in future unless it really opens up new ground. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #10
Thank you, Denzil. n/t. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #23
Agree. Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #11
I agree the best thing now would be for reinstatement and both posts to be self-deleted muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #12
Can I also draw the mod team's attention to Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #13
Muriel's PMed me. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #16
Your reply was a personal attack. auntpurl Jun 2016 #14
I think if the mods ask for our input, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #15
No, I meant auntpurl Jun 2016 #18
I think we're agreed. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #19
Yes, me too. auntpurl Jun 2016 #20
I've been so glad to have DU, especially this small corner of it, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #21
in the light... Ironing Man Jun 2016 #17
I posted out of some confusion and apologize for my wording. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #22
Thanks Ken; and glad to see you back. LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #24
All I can say is..... BooScout Jun 2016 #25
And then you can check out THIS website: Ken Burch Jun 2016 #26
I'd rather drink more honey rum.... BooScout Jun 2016 #27
Can't say I blame you. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #28
It's gorgeous here today... BooScout Jun 2016 #29
IIRC, Franco was actually born there. n/t. Ken Burch Jun 2016 #30

LeftishBrit

(41,190 posts)
1. Weighing in...
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 03:38 AM
Jun 2016

as I said in my pm, I do disagree with this decision.

I think that Ken is a well-intentioned ally, who makes interesting contributions whether I always agree with them or not; and I would not wish to deter interested Americans from posting on this forum.

I do find that particular post objectionable, and inappropriate to the UK forum, especially at a time when the UK is at risk of breaking up. But I don't think it was intended to be anti-Welsh or anti-Scottish; I think that it was a flippant remark made by analogy with the concept of moving from one state to another in America.

I think it would be appropriate to ask Ken to delete that post, but not to block him, unless he stands by it and refuses to delete it.

PaulaFarrell

(1,236 posts)
3. I dunno
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:34 AM
Jun 2016

seemed like he was being ironic to me. I don't think he meant it to denigrate anybody, and anyway, as a Texan, I stand by the right to say Bush is NOT a Texan, because he was born in Connecticut...

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
4. Banning for this is inappropiate.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:43 AM
Jun 2016

Ban should be lifted. Poster should be asked to self-delete the post in question, or it could be alerted and removed... You may then like to self-delete your rather uncivil response, Ironing Man, too.

Ken Burch is a valuable contributor to the group.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,152 posts)
5. I agree with my 2 fellow hosts above - ask Ken to delete it
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 05:16 AM
Jun 2016

It's an unhelpful remark in the context of a question of whether the UK should break up, and 'self-loathing' is a phrase that make me uneasy. But I don't see any malice behind it that would mean Ken shouldn't be able to post here.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
6. When we decided by concensus that you folks were to be mods,
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:21 AM
Jun 2016

I believe we left it to you to sort these things out collectively as you see fit.

I think it would have been better if you'd done that first, not least because you're the "junior member" on the team. There are at least two others on the team who have more experience of DU and acting as hosts and mods, and it might have been helpful to draw on their experience.

I'd rather we didn't have to second-guess all your actions as mods whenever something happens, but applause for bringing it here so we can clear this up.

I completely disagree with banning Ken for this. He's obviously worked up about things right now, some of his posts may be provocative and he may bang on a bit - but then I'm guilty of that, too! And so are others. We've had quite a few pretty intemperate allegations made in the last few days - Corbyn's an anti-semite, for instance, which is demonstrably untrue. And these from people who aren't regulars on the UK Group. They've been allowed to stand and nobody else has been blocked.

If Ken's post crossed what you consider a line, it could have been alerted on in the usual way, the thread could have been locked, you could have tackled him as a mod on that thread and asked him to delete - there were a number of courses of action, but I think unless it was a deeply urgent problem that had to be addressed right there and then, you should have discussed it with the other mods before anybody took any action.

As I said, you four are the mods, it's up to you how you run this group while you hold those posts, but that's my input as a humble poster. If I had a vote, it would be to reinstate Ken immediately.

ETA: BTW, I've just looked at his post. I'm Welsh-born and bred, nowadays more or less a naturalized Scot. I saw nothing wrong in what he posted last night, and I can't see what's wrong with it today. It was obviously a sardonic riff on the concept of that old trope, the "self-loathing Jew". His being Scots-born and Welsh-brought up doesn't necessarily make him any more palatable than any of the other Tories, though perhaps a little more interesting as a change. This may touch on issues I'm insensitive to, so maybe someone could explain what's so bad about it.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
8. And not to add to any pile-on,
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:46 AM
Jun 2016

but having reflected, your response, Ironing Man was a personal attack, and therefore hideworthy under the forum rules, never mind the group ones.

I'm not going to alert, but maybe you should self-delete.

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
7. Ridiculous over-reaction.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:30 AM
Jun 2016

(Especially from a 160-post wonder who posts crap like "you, and your post, are a nasty piece of work" in response.)

LeftishBrit

(41,190 posts)
9. Now, come on, everyone, let's set a badly-needed example to our country's noble leaders...
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:13 AM
Jun 2016

by negotiating a decision without falling out among ourselves!

Do we agree that:

(1) Ken is un-banned on condition that he deletes the offensive post

(2) Ironing Man edits or deletes his own post to take account of that.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
10. I'd rather we didn't put these things to a vote in future unless it really opens up new ground.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:25 AM
Jun 2016

We agreed by acclaim that you're the mods. If you do something we disapprove of in future, I imagine we'll let you know through whatever channels are within the rules (I'm not clear about the definition of the new offence of "interfering with moderation"!).

If I have a vote, it's for the following:

(1) Let Ken's post stand because - as a Welshman moved to Scotland, the exact opposite of the trajectory of Crabb's - I see nothing wrong with it. It wasn't a zinger, but then plenty of the immoderate guff I post falls flat. If it offends people for reasons I'm blind to, please explain to me what I'm missing.

(2) Reinstate Ken immediately.

(3) Ask Ironing Man to edit his post to make it comply with forum rules and set some sort of example, or just self-delete it.

(4) If he won't do that, as the moderator team, consider whether he can remain as the junior member.

(5) If you don't feel you can do (4) yourselves and decide bring it to us for a decision, I'll vote to remove him from the team. That doesn't have to happen.

I was an advocate for Ironing Man as a mod when we discussed all that. He was keen to do it, and I felt it might help balance the team as a few saw it as "lefty"-dominated. I also felt he'd conducted himself with civility in his interactions I'd seen, including with me in exchanges that could have gotten quite heated. This is one transgression that makes me regret that, but we all make mistakes. I'm not calling for a head, but I'm not best pleased at the moment.

One reason I wanted mods for this forum was to help it run smoothly and keep things civil. This isn't "running smoothly".

Let's not descend into meta over something that should have been beyond trivial - there's too much of that about at the moment! We have bigger fish to fry in our small pan here.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,152 posts)
12. I agree the best thing now would be for reinstatement and both posts to be self-deleted
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:45 AM
Jun 2016

Ken's isn't one I would have alerted on, but there's nothing in it apart from what offended Ironing Man, so there isn't a big need for it to stay; and IM's reply is an attack on it, which then gets a bit personal.

To my fellow hosts: I think it's better if we discuss issues like this via DU mail first (annoyingly, there's no facility to send mail to more than one person at a time, so I recommend pasting it in to mails to each fellow mod). If there's something extremely obvious, like a commercial spammer or Tory troll (there's been a Brexit one around, I think, but I'm not sure if they ever found this group; I've just seen 'auto-removed' posts for them in GD or LBN) then a host can go ahead with an immediate block. With discussion, we might decide it's a misunderstanding, or something that could be dealt with by asking them to change their posts, before going to a ban.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
13. Can I also draw the mod team's attention to
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:54 AM
Jun 2016

posts on the "With just one word, Labour MPs reveal utter contempt for Corbyn supporters" thread.

I don't want to call out the poster, but I'd like a decision from you on whether that poster should be blocked. If you want me to explain why, PM me, but I'd rather you just looked at it and used your own discretion.

Sheesh.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
16. Muriel's PMed me.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:20 AM
Jun 2016

The post in question has been self-deleted, so I withdraw my complaint (in future, I'll probably do that by PM rather than on open forum).

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
14. Your reply was a personal attack.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:55 AM
Jun 2016

I didn't like the original post in question, but I don't think it broke the rules. Your reply, however, did.

I try really hard not to be biased against people with low post counts, but I do think group hosts (like forum mods) should have more experience with DU and how things work here.

I hope the poster in question is reinstated and you delete your reply to him.

I also agree with those above that these decisions should not be put up for open debate, not least of which because this thread violates the "do not interfere with forum moderation" rule. This is meta discussion and should be decided amongst the mods. If group members then disagree with decisions made, they can message the group hosts.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
15. I think if the mods ask for our input,
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:18 AM
Jun 2016

we're not really "interfering".

But it's a jury call, not mine, and I'd rather not have to even spend time thinking about it and discussing it. I trust the team as a whole, that's why I put some of their names forward. Thinking about it, I believe I put all their names forward! Call me an old busybody (with a fair bit of experience of moderation, both online and in real life).

I think this thread may have been useful in setting some ground rules anyway.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
18. No, I meant
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:33 AM
Jun 2016

this thread (not the replies to it), despite that it was posted by a group host, violates the "don't interfere" rule, which is a clumsily written rule in my opinion because I think what the admins really want to avoid is "meta" - talking about the boards on the boards. It leads to drama.

I too trust the team and respect their decision.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
19. I think we're agreed.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:38 AM
Jun 2016

Glad to see you back, BTW.

Anyway, enough drama. I'm an inch away from making another complaint (about the same poster as above *sigh*), but I better go do some work instead.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
20. Yes, me too.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:39 AM
Jun 2016

Thanks for the welcome back. After the events of this morning (in real life, not DU) I am now so totally confused I feel I need to be with other people (online) wandering around in the wilderness together.

Denzil_DC

(7,188 posts)
21. I've been so glad to have DU, especially this small corner of it,
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jun 2016

the last week or so.

But all this nonsense is going to be going on for the foreseeable, and I'm going to have to learn to pace myself. I can't keep shouting at the telly and feeling like I want to punch something all day every day, in between cracking into ribald laughter at the absurdities.

Back atcha.

Ironing Man

(164 posts)
17. in the light...
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 09:33 AM
Jun 2016

in light of the above comments and discussion, i shall reverse my action and delete my own comment.

i shall also have a conversation and consultation with my fellow - for the moment - hosts about the best way forward.

i am grateful to those who took the time to put their views across.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
22. I posted out of some confusion and apologize for my wording.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 11:31 AM
Jun 2016

Last edited Thu Jun 30, 2016, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

My intent was simply to make a comment about that politician as an individual, not about his ethnic ancestry(an ancestry I share).

And most especially, I did not mean to do anything to inflame relations between the Scots and the "Sassenach", at a time when a second Indyref is a real possibility.

I simply shouldn't have phrased it as I did and gladly apologize.

Thank you for unblocking me.

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
25. All I can say is.....
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:07 PM
Jun 2016

It's refreshing to see such a civilised discussion on this matter!

I'm going back to sipping my new discovery of Canary Island Honey Rum and watching the sun set over the cliffs of the Canaries.

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
27. I'd rather drink more honey rum....
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:56 PM
Jun 2016

....and pretend I don't have to fly back to the UK on Tuesday!

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
28. Can't say I blame you.
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 05:54 PM
Jun 2016

It was just the image of "doing the triple Canary" that struck me-sipping a Canary in the Canaries while reading The Canary.

How is it there today?

I've heard wonderful things about those islands over the years.

(weird, somewhat tangential story... in the run-up to the Fascist coup known in the MSM as "the Spanish Civil War", Francisco Franco's fellow generals and rivals for post-coup power would mock him by implying(in the well-known military tradition) that he might be gay. They gave him the secret nickname "Miss Canary Islands of 1935&quot .

BooScout

(10,406 posts)
29. It's gorgeous here today...
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jun 2016

Sunny skies and highs in the 80s (mid to upper 20s for Celsius minded). I'm on Tenerife and loving every minute of it!

Interesting you should mention Franco....I was just reading about how he planned the Spanish Civil War from the Canaries earlier today.

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