I guess Hillary doesn't have to worry about Brooklyn. The new largely Russian residents

[pnwmom]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by stevenleser (a host of the Democrats group).

don't much care for Bernie -- or socialism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/nyregion/bernie-sanders-back-in-the-old-neighborhood-to-make-his-case.html?action=click&contentCollection=Europe&module=Trending&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article

Her unit, where she has lived for three years, is two floors above Apartment 2C, where Mr. Sanders grew up. When he lived there, the area was predominantly Jewish. Today, the building’s buzzer panel for its 85 units could be mistaken for the intercom of an apartment building in Russia.

Asked what she thought of him, Ms. Lazareva laughed with delight. “Oh, I hate him!” she said.

Ms. Lazareva, who hails from Moscow, recalled waiting in line for three hours each morning to get a jug of milk as a little girl living under communism. “If you lived under socialists, you’d hate them too,” she said. “They make everyone poor.”

SNIP

Inside the Dokvtovich family’s apartment a few days before Mr. Sanders’s visit, Oleg, 9, and Sergei, 7, ran around the house in their superhero underwear. Oleg was impressed that a presidential candidate grew up in his apartment building. But standing in the kitchen, holding his 9-month-old sister, Elizabeth, he said he had no plans to follow suit: too much stress.

His mother, Oxana, 38, interjected. Her boys, she said, were born in Russia, and thus were out of the running. Only Elizabeth had a shot at the White House.

“Yes!” said Oleg, squeezing the baby in his arms. She would be a great president, he said, “because she’s a girl!”

[Politicalboi]

1. Yes, because it would be the same here

One uninformed Russian and it's curtains for Bernie. 11 more days and a lot can go wrong for the Clinton's.

[Iliyah]

4. The Russian community doesn't think its funny

[zalinda]

2. I talked to a Hillary 'supporter' today

"Hillary's my girl." The best President was Abraham Lincoln. FDR was a terrible President, because he didn't invite Jesse Owens to the White House. Teddy Roosevelt was a better President because he invited George Washington Carver to the White House (it was actually Booker T. Washington). Bill Clinton was a great President, as well as Obama.

Do I need to say she was black and middle class? When I tried to talk to her about the FDR PBS series that I had just watched (I wanted to steer her away from the election), she said she saw it and her mother lived through it, and FDR did nothing for black folk. I really wanted to be snarky and ask what Obama had done for black folk, but I resisted. When we got to the locker room, I avoided her.

Z

[pnwmom]

3. FDR left most black people out of Social Security, because of their employment

as domestic and farm workers. And for many other reasons, their situation didn't improve much till the era of the civil rights movement.

I can understand why many don't feel particularly grateful toward him.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2009/03/new_deal_republicans_economy_great_depression.html?page=0,0

It is often forgotten that, for all of its benefits, the New Deal reinforced structural black economic disadvantage in many ways. It is certainly true that the Work Projects Administration (WPA) put many blacks to work, and many blacks also benefited from the relief programs.

But it is also true that key programs of the New Deal consciously excluded blacks. Black farmers were excluded directly from the agricultural programs and were often forced off the land. Southern and Southwestern legislators insisted that social security legislation was written to exclude the vast majority of black and Latino workers (tenant farmers and domestic workers). The Home Owners’ Loan Corporation and its successor, the Federal Housing Administration, explicitly banned loans to neighborhoods with any blacks, thus excluding black homeowners from the main American engine for generating wealth—homeownership. It was the federal government that invented the notorious practice of redlining, the legacy of which can still be seen in the slower rates at which homes appreciate in black neighborhoods than in white neighborhoods.

House Majority Whip Rep. James Clyburn has reminded us that we face similar dangers in this new era of great economic turmoil, and that we should be careful to avoid them. Of course, President Obama’s stimulus package and proposed budget do not have the racial exclusions that were contained in the New Deal era legislation. The right has excoriated Clyburn for pointing out the racial implications of threats by several Southern Republican governors who have said that they would refuse to accept money in the president’s stimulus package to provide aid to the unemployed and perhaps other mandated programs for the economically disadvantaged such as Medicaid.

Clyburn is correct. Since the 1950s, black unemployment in the U.S. has usually been twice that of white citizens (and in two of the blackest states, both with governors threatening to reject the aid, Mississippi and Louisiana, the rate is three times that of whites). A horde of conservative politicians and commentators complained that Clyburn was playing the “race card.”

SNIP

[Baobab]

5. So, the WTO by eliminating New Deal programs will make it possible for African, Asian, South America

firms to compete directly in the US marketplace and quite possibly pay their workers below minimum wage or minimum wage, soon.
This is due to the US signing on to the WTO revised GPA. Will that help African-Americans? Many Americans of all colors may lose their jobs.

[pnwmom]

6. Did you know Bernie wants to get rid of another New Deal program?

He wants to get rid of the public bank FDR set up in 1935, to help US companies compete with the rest of the world in exporting their products ( the Export-Import bank.)

Even though every President in both parties for 85 years has supported the public bank, Bernie agrees with the Tea Party on this. He and the tea party say it's not fair to have a public bank taking business away from the private ones. So he's joined with them in wanting to defund it. Even though it helps US businesses export their products and every year returns a profit to the US treasury.

Going against a public bank seems like a funny position for a "socialist" to take.

[Baobab]

7. Have you ever heard of GATS - the 1995 WTO GATS?

"General Agreement on Trade in Services"

Things like banking services, health insurance, education, IT and so on are regulated by a bunch of agreements all signed in the 1990s, which limit government regulation of them in order to keep those market segments open for commercial entities from around the world.

I suspect that you're just not seeing the (global) implications of the fact that the Clinton Administration "created the WTO" (according to official publications) in its full glory.

[pnwmom]

9. And you're missing the fact that Bernie's beloved advisor, Robert Reich, was the chief architect

of NAFTA and other trade agreements. And he has written in his book about how he was pushing Clinton to make NAFTA his top priority, but Hillary wanted it to be healthcare instead.

But Reich won and got his NAFTA. At that point the Clinton administration didn't have enough "political capital" left, according to Reich, to pass a healthcare bill.

How come it's fine for Bernie to use Reich as one of his advisor/supporters now, given the very poor advice he gave Clinton about NAFTA?

Hillary showed much better judgment on NAFTA than Reich did.

[Baobab]

10. What does this book say about GATS?

The WTO General Agreement on Trade in SERVICES

NAFTA is not about services, for the most part. As far as healthcare and health insurance, they are definitely not "droppable on your foot" so they are services. (services are everything you cannot drop on your foot)

GATS is where the health care stuff is.

[Baobab]

8. GATS pretty much gets rid of all New Deal programs

For example, government spending and the jobs it creates can't be hoarded by one country just to create jobs for their own citizens. That work increasingly will have to go to the lowest qualified bidders, wherever they are from.

This is expected to be a boon for developing countries but lead to a lot of job loss for workers whose wages are above the global norms.

[zalinda]

18. You do know that FDR was dealing with Southern Democrats

He did what he could, but he had bigger things to think about. He was trying to get the US ready for war. He knew it was coming, and was working back channels and whatever else he could to not be taken by surprise. The meme that we got ready for war in just a few years is false. Everyone was resisting going to war, no matter what was taking place in Europe and Asia. He got a bill passed through Congress that let the US build airplanes, and make weapons for other countries, although the countries had to pay for these items with cash. Before this bill, it was illegal, no matter what, because of WWI. As the war ramped up, he was able to get Congress to let war items be bought with credit. This was the ONLY reason that we were prepared for WWII.

He was the first President to have black advisors, in higher up positions. Black soldiers were able to take advantage of the GI Bill. It is not like black people were held back during his Presidency. And, yes, he probably could have done more, but he was busy with a lot of things going on and was trying to make things better for everyone. Eleanor was very active in social reform and would meet with black leader, including those of the NAACP.

Is it sad that we still are in a situation where discrimination is still going on? Yes. But I saw very little social reform under Bill Clinton and nothing by Hillary in their 8 years in the White House. And, what has Obama done?

Bernie is the only one who is trying to make us all equal. Listening to his comments during the Rodney King incident, he made it very clear, even back then what his agenda is.

Z

[pnwmom]

19. " It is not like black people were held back during his Presidency."

Yes, they were. They did not benefit from the New Deal to the same extent that whites did.

There is no reason for them to feel particularly grateful to FDR.

[zalinda]

20. True. FDR didn't have to do anything for anyone.

He certainly didn't have to make sure that they were included in the WPA, or that they were included in the benefits after the war. He could have let the country rot, and then of course, black people could have prospered. After all, he had his.

Hillary supporters keep arguing on how the ACA isn't perfect and yet will argue on how FDR didn't do whatever for black people. Such disconnect.

Z

[pnwmom]

21. I'm explaining why AA often don't feel the same about FDR as white people.

Is that really so hard to understand?

[zalinda]

22. Yes, when Obama and the Clintons have even done less. eom

[pnwmom]

23. You really are clueless. The incomes of African Americans went up during Bill Clinton's terms.

And President Obama, despite being constrained by the most obstructionist Congress in history, has helped millions of black Americans. He got the stimulus bill passed -- and that benefited many black Americans -- and he got the Medicaid expansion passed as part of Obamacare. Black people aren't blaming him for the actions of Rethug governors who blocked it from their states.

[Baobab]

11. I think that this woman has every right to feel that way, but ....

I think she also is profoundly misunderstanding Bernie's positions. In her case its totally understandable, but one has to wonder how she will feel when her apartment building is redeveloped into condos she would not have a chance in hell of being able to afford. Such is what likely will happen if Hillary and her trade deals get through. Because of the export of natural gas which will make her building much more expensive to heat. That will lead to a loss of rent stabilization.

[pnwmom]

12. Hillary is not supporting the final version of the TPP. So I'm not sure what you're referring to. nt

[Baobab]

13. TTIP the biggest trade deal in history? Not the tempjobs one, not the Pacific one, the big US-EU one

TTIP. Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The one that makes fracking immune to state laws, and exports it until its gone for four or five times what we pay for it. Also, harmonizes those pesky environmental regulations downward to the lowest common denominator.

[pnwmom]

14. Are you talking about this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trans-pacific-partnership-hillary-clinton-says-she-does-not-support-the-agreement-a6685486.html

Hillary Clinton has broken ranks with Barack Obama and criticised the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement, saying it will not do enough to create American jobs or “advance our national security”.

The former US Secretary of State, who is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for President, said she was “not in favour” of the deal currently being discussed by 12 countries on the Pacific Rim, including the US and Japan, but not China.

TPP, as it is known, would potentially create a free trade area covering 40 per cent of the world’s total trade.

It is seen in the US as a counter-part to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership trade deal (TTIP), currently being negotiated with the European Union.

In an interview with PBS, Ms Clinton said that “as of today, I am not in favour of what I have learned about” the deal.

[Baobab]

17. "as of today"

Yes, that is the TTIP which will open up all government procurement to EU firms, if they can be the winning low bidders. So no more New Deal make work programs. Unless you dont mind giving work to people from the other side of the globe unless wages here fall to below theirs.

See the problem. On one hand, GATS makes it impossible to do nything to banks, but it also pulls the bottom out from under wages.

(the same thing can happen with procurement and GATS and huge countries like India are part of GATS. So in theory, we could see wages fall a very great deal basically to global norms. That is I am told Hillary's like dream, its something she has been pushing since she was a much younger woman. But it would be disaster for millions of American families unless we had a safety net that made it much less devastating for everybody AS ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT PARTICIPATE IN SUCH THINGS MOSTLY DO. (however GATS makes it impossible for them to create new ones!)

[Baobab]

15. Pop quiz- How many new trade deals are being worked on now whose names start with T?

Do you know? Or are you confusing the (how many?) others with TPP?

I am 100% sure that was intentional which tells you something important right there.

Also, how many existing trade deals carve out big chunks of policy where nothing can be changed? Forever!

[Baobab]

16. Now do you see why HILLARY is a non nogotiable NO

NO NO NO NO

No more of this really shameless lying.

[stevenleser]

24. Locking: please don't fight the primary battle in this group. Thanks