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liberal N proud

(60,332 posts)
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:46 AM Apr 2016

Here's Why I Never Warmed Up to Bernie Sanders

Kevin Drum, Mother Jones

With the Democratic primary basically over, I want to step back a bit and explain the big-picture reason that I never warmed up to Bernie Sanders. It's not so much that he's all that far to my left, nor that he's been pretty skimpy on details about all the programs he proposes. That's hardly uncommon in presidential campaigns. Rather, it's the fact that I think he's basically running a con, and one with the potential to cause distinct damage to the progressive cause.

<snip>

Bernie's explanation for everything he wants to do—his theory of change, or theory of governing, take your pick—is that we need a revolution in this country. The rich own everything. Income inequality is skyrocketing. The middle class is stagnating. The finance industry is out of control. Washington DC is paralyzed.

But as Bill Scher points out, the revolution that Bernie called for didn't show up. In fact, it's worse than that: we were never going to get a revolution, and Bernie knew it all along. Think about it: has there ever been an economic revolution in the United States? Stretching things a bit, I can think of two:
◾The destruction of the Southern slave economy following the Civil War.
◾The New Deal.

The first of these was 50+ years in the making and, in the end, required a bloody, four-year war to bring to a conclusion. The second happened only after an utter collapse of the economy, with banks closing, businesses failing, wages plummeting, and unemployment at 25 percent. That's what it takes to bring about a revolution, or even something close to it.

We're light years away from that right now. Unemployment? Yes, two or three percent of the working-age population has dropped out of the labor force, but the headline unemployment rate is 5 percent. Wages? They've been stagnant since the turn of the century, but the average family still makes close to $70,000, more than nearly any other country in the world. Health care? Our system is a mess, but 90 percent of the country has insurance coverage. Dissatisfaction with the system? According to Gallup, even among those with incomes under $30,000, only 27 percent are dissatisfied with their personal lives.

Like it or not, you don't build a revolution on top of an economy like this. Period. If you want to get anything done, you're going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through the slow boring of hard wood.

Much, Much more at link: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/04/heres-why-i-never-warmed-bernie-sanders

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Here's Why I Never Warmed Up to Bernie Sanders (Original Post) liberal N proud Apr 2016 OP
Uh oh, Bernie-ites are coming for this guy. tonyt53 Apr 2016 #1
This deserves highlighting. savalez Apr 2016 #2
The longer this goes on and the more we learn about him and Jane.... Hekate May 2016 #33
I would add the Civil Rights Movement as a revolution, which led to the Civil Rights Acts Agnosticsherbet Apr 2016 #3
All Bernie can talk about is economic revolution. The author is right: the Civil War was... Hekate May 2016 #34
Win or lose, it was always going to end one way. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #4
Wonderful article! Basic LA Apr 2016 #5
Has there ever been an economic revolution in the United States? puffy socks Apr 2016 #6
I imagine a couple of times Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #8
The other problem with political revolutions is that the people at the bottom suffer the stopbush Apr 2016 #15
If you look at revolutions in other countries over time Raastan Apr 2016 #18
That's a great point. puffy socks Apr 2016 #19
More often than not......nt 2naSalit Apr 2016 #29
It ould have helped... CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #7
Medicare and Social Security - our two big socialist programs - were not born of a revolution. stopbush Apr 2016 #14
Great article UtahLib Apr 2016 #9
Very well said... Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #22
From the parts in the OP, I think the author makes good points BootinUp Apr 2016 #10
Yep! pretty much! Her Sister Apr 2016 #11
liberal, GREAT post. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #12
I have been saying for months that a Sanders win would set the progressive cause back decades. stopbush Apr 2016 #13
I disagree with you on one point justiceischeap Apr 2016 #24
I hold out hope that most of these supporters will eventually stopbush Apr 2016 #25
Fingers crossed. nt justiceischeap Apr 2016 #28
K&R! Tarheel_Dem Apr 2016 #16
Thank you, liberal Cha Apr 2016 #17
Excellent OP. oasis Apr 2016 #20
SNL "yadda yadda yadda" skit... JSup Apr 2016 #21
Massive K & R. Thanks for posting. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #23
K&R redstateblues Apr 2016 #26
K&R! DemonGoddess Apr 2016 #27
Drum is correct-change is hard work Gothmog Apr 2016 #30
I first thought: Demnorth Apr 2016 #31
BINGO! ^^^This!^^^ eom BlueCaliDem May 2016 #32
Sorry, but i just had to drop this in GDP...I know, I know.... Jitter65 May 2016 #35
I have been avoiding GDP liberal N proud May 2016 #36
KICK! Cha May 2016 #37

savalez

(3,517 posts)
2. This deserves highlighting.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:51 AM
Apr 2016
it's the fact that I think he's basically running a con, and one with the potential to cause distinct damage to the progressive cause.

Hekate

(90,561 posts)
33. The longer this goes on and the more we learn about him and Jane....
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:19 AM
May 2016

...the more I agree that we will be damaged.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
3. I would add the Civil Rights Movement as a revolution, which led to the Civil Rights Acts
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:52 AM
Apr 2016

of 66 and 68.

If there is a revolution brewing, it is among blacks today. I think that if we don't do something about the inequality, the unrest today over police treatment of minorities will reach those levels under Martin Luther King and his generation.

Hekate

(90,561 posts)
34. All Bernie can talk about is economic revolution. The author is right: the Civil War was...
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:25 AM
May 2016

...aside from freeing the slaves, an incredible economic upheaval, a real economic revolution, because slavery was the entire basis of the economy of the South and that was taken away.

So on that basis, the Civil Rights Movement was not the kind of revolution Bernie is talking about. He is really blind that way -- he's probably sure that if only the African Americans in the South could have improved their wages, Jim Crow and all its manifestations would have withered away on its own.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
4. Win or lose, it was always going to end one way.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:56 AM
Apr 2016
Most likely Bernie will have no lasting effect, and his followers will scatter in the usual way, with some doubling down on practical politics and others leaving for different callings. But there's a decent chance that Bernie's failure will result in a net increase of cynicism about politics, and that's the last thing we need. I hate the idea that we might lose even a few talented future leaders because they fell for Bernie's spiel and then got discouraged when it didn't pan out.

I couldn't warm to an independent who at 74 suddenly declares, "I am a Democrat." What integrity?
 

puffy socks

(1,473 posts)
6. Has there ever been an economic revolution in the United States?
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:06 PM
Apr 2016

Not that I am aware of, maybe the Homestead Strike? After Fricke was shot, that swayed the public opinion on who controls a company and was the start of the capitalists truly showing that they were making all the rules and controlling the purse strings of a company. Failed revolution?
Or the aftermath of the Triangle Factory fire?
Both are just random events that caused big changes. I don't know that they'd really fit the definition of a revolution.

The problem with any economic revolution is that the wealthy can easily outlast us . The same people wanting change also work for these very companies, they are literally producing the revenue that is used to control them. How many voting for Bernie work for Walmart, Amazon, Verizon Wireless and so on? $21 T in offshore accounts alone.
The history of the great Coal Strike of 1902 , for example, shows how much the wealthy believe they are superior people and how far will go to have absolute control.

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
8. I imagine a couple of times
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:14 PM
Apr 2016

for example industrialization..people left the farms and moved to urban areas to work

stopbush

(24,392 posts)
15. The other problem with political revolutions is that the people at the bottom suffer the
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:25 PM
Apr 2016

most, both during the revolution and for decades after. The rich always land on their feet because they have the resources to land on their feet. The rest of us are chattel being fed to the guns.

Raastan

(266 posts)
18. If you look at revolutions in other countries over time
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:17 PM
Apr 2016

Like Russia, China, etc., theirs did not work out as promised. Why should we believe Bernie can do better with his empty promises?

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
7. It ould have helped...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:08 PM
Apr 2016

if at any point Bernie had come up with a plan for doing any of this stuff that wasn't entirely reliant on 'political revolution'. Everything he's proposed is based on the assumption that millions of people would spend every day of the next __ years rallying for their causes, and that would somehow change the opinions of people in Congress. Issues that poll at 90% can't get them to move, neither can big marches in Washington. This whole scheme was founded on an assumption that we already know isn't true.

stopbush

(24,392 posts)
14. Medicare and Social Security - our two big socialist programs - were not born of a revolution.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:21 PM
Apr 2016

They were the result of the D establishment doing the hard work to get them enacted, then expanding the programs once they took hold.

We didn't need a revolution then. Why would we need one now?

BootinUp

(47,085 posts)
10. From the parts in the OP, I think the author makes good points
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:27 PM
Apr 2016

as for damage to the progressive movement, I would suggest it has always been damaged by similar actors and Bernies actual long term effect is yet to be known.

stopbush

(24,392 posts)
13. I have been saying for months that a Sanders win would set the progressive cause back decades.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:20 PM
Apr 2016

He is running a con game, and the ill-informed are buying it, just like they bought Reagan's pie-in-the-sky economics.

We're fortunate that Sanders is going down in flames and that there will be no lasting effect to his campaign. It will be a footnote in history. A few of his followers will remain ultra lefties, more than a few will end up becoming ultra conservatives and the rest will settle back into what they were doing before, with probably half ending up voting longterm with the Ds because...whatever.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
24. I disagree with you on one point
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:28 AM
Apr 2016

I think there will be long-lasting effects from his loss. Sanders supporters already feel the establishment isn't treating him fairly and once he loses, it'll just pour gas on the already burning fires.

His supporters will become further entrenched in their beliefs that you can't get anything accomplished, things will never change, and their vote isn't worth anything. How do I know this? Because Sanders has told them over and over again that only HE is capable of creating the "right" kind of change and they believe him while ignoring the fact that he's been a politician for 30 years and is indeed a part of the establishment himself.

So a lot of these supporters will turn away from politics and will be apathetic about it all--which helps no one.

Gothmog

(144,939 posts)
30. Drum is correct-change is hard work
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:17 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders relied on a magical revolution and did not want to do the hard work to implement change. Magic revolutions are not the way to bring about change

Demnorth

(68 posts)
31. I first thought:
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:05 PM
Apr 2016

this guy sounds interesting. My turning point came early, when I read through his health care plan. It sounded so much better than what I have, which is single-payer. Too good to be true. If you take people's money and know you can't deliver what you promise, it's unethical.

In my eyes, politicians really don't have to do much when running for office - but they have to answer questions, have a credible plan, address more than a few issues in depth, and be believable and trustworthy.



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