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Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:39 PM

The new Debate meme

The two campaigns have been in negotiations the past few days about where to hold the final two debates. Negotiations must not be going in the direction that Team Sanders wants so he is taking the debate public and unleashing his internet crew on the world.

Here are the facts:

In February the campaigns agreed to add 3 debates to the calendar. One was to be held in Flint, Michigan March 6th and the other two debates would be determined at a later date.

At the time Bernie said he wanted the debates in NYC and LA however these locations were never agreed to.

Right now Hillary's campaign has stated they'd like the next debate to be in PA. At no time have they said there won't be another debate.

Bernie is using misinformation to try to bolster his position the debate should be in NYC and some of his supporters are lying about the agreement.

Below is a New York Times article that details the agreement between campaigns back in February.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/03/bernie-sanders-says-yes-to-debate-with-hillary-clinton-on-thursday-night/

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply The new Debate meme (Original post)
Trenzalore Mar 2016 OP
stopbush Mar 2016 #1
Trenzalore Mar 2016 #2
stopbush Mar 2016 #4
cloudythescribbler Mar 2016 #3
Trenzalore Mar 2016 #5
SaschaHM Mar 2016 #7
cloudythescribbler Mar 2016 #8
Trenzalore Mar 2016 #9
Cha Mar 2016 #11
stopbush Mar 2016 #6
DemonGoddess Mar 2016 #10
Princess Turandot Mar 2016 #12

Response to Trenzalore (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:43 PM

1. I don't know why Hill would do any more debates with Sanders.

He never says anything new or nuanced. Do we really need another debate to hear his "a noun, a verb and evil billionaires" answers evolve to "a noun, a verb and I've got momentum" answers?

Hillary always has something new to say, but she'll say those things in her victory speeches.

No, no more debates.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:45 PM

2. She agreed to it

She should do it.

She doesn't have to accept his demands of when and where.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:51 PM

4. Sure, she agreed to it, but she can change her mind.

Team Sanders is trying to have it both ways. She agreed to a debate on April 26. Sanders team is pushing for an April 19 debate in NY. That wasn't agreed to. If Hillary declines, they paint her as being afraid to debate on the 19th, even though she agreed to the 26th. If she decides not to debate at all, they say she's afraid to debate period. If she agrees to the 19th but not to NY as the site, then she's afraid to debate in "her home state."

More debates only hurt the front runner at this point. Were I Team Clinton, I would stick to the 26th as the only remaining debate. If Team Sanders makes a stink, then I'd consider dropping all future debates, period. You simply say Team Sanders refused to negotiate and leave it at that.

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Response to Trenzalore (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:49 PM

3. Question -- where are the candidates on the TIMING of the debate(s)?

Obviously you seem to know much more about the particulars of this than I do. In the NY Times article on the subject there was no mention of any counteroffer from Hillary on the NY debate

I see nothing wrong in going public with the demand for more debates. As some Hillary supporters on DU have suggested, a frontrunner has little to gain and much to lose, and somehow this would especially be true in NY (though if I had to bet I would bet Bernie does BETTER in NY than PA).

Since the debates are televised nationally, the location of them is much less crucial in my arrogant opinion (IMAO) than the timing. A "Pennsylvania" debate might very well be after the NY primary, which would be a shame. And it seems that the argument about location is probably much more an argument about timing but that's just my guess


I haven't seen any "misinformation" put out by the Bernie campaign on this point, nor any credibly evidenced examples of "lying". I would like to see links to what "lie" was said and link to why it is supposedly a falsehood.

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As I am doing on every thread concerning the presidential primaries where I post, I am including a comment that DUers, in my view, should/must devote at least 20% of the time and effort going into the clash in the presidential primary to the Congressional concerns; this is something that I suspect both Hillary and Bernie would agree on. We need a Democratic Senate and to maximally challenge the GOP "gerrymandority" in the House

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:53 PM

5. The counter offer is a PA Debate on April 26th

I would expect both campaigns to negotiate and push what they think is in their best interest.

The lie I see is that Hillary isn't agreeing to debate or that she is going back on her word.

At no point was the location or timing of the debates agreed to in February.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:57 PM

7. Yup

To add to this, Sanders did try to make a debate in NY as one of his caveats for that agreement, but the Clinton campaign did accept that and agreement stipulated that the debates would be decided on at a later date. I expect it to be before Apr26th in PA because Sanders can't afford not to have a debate before those 5 contests, 4 of which are closed.

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Response to Trenzalore (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:11 PM

8. I haven't seen any misstatements of fact from the Bernie camp

And the timing issue, as I thought, is crucial. Clearly the debates won't be ON the 19th or ON the 26th of April -- those are the primary dates. But Hillary wants to go through the NY contest (the biggest single state yet) without having another debate. Sure she is pursuing her 'best interest'. But before such a key primary there really ought to be a debate -- it could be next week in WI or later, as long as it is nationally televised and reasonably before the NY primary

Sure, each side is pursuing their interests, but those who support Hillary are offended by Bernie making an issue of it, and raising (reasonably I think) the general issue of good faith and the best interests of the voters. On the other hand, Sanderistas like myself are offended that Hillary would want to avoid having any debates from before March 15 for a full FIVE+ weeks, and that isn't good for the election.

I suspect that there will in the end probably BE a televised debate, wherever it occurs, BEFORE the primary in NY

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:15 PM

9. I fully expect

To see half truth memes and blown out lies posted all over Facebook tonight....and also here on DU.

Bernie knows what he is unleashing.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:15 AM

11. This is a group for Hillary and her supporters.

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Response to cloudythescribbler (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:55 PM

6. Location of each debate matters because they always take questions

from the audience, and those questions always revolve around the particular issues facing that particular state. The debate performance has influence on the primary that is being held in that state. How the rest of the country views any paricular debate is a sedondary issue.

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Response to Trenzalore (Original post)

Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:06 PM

10. I think he needs to quit

with the damn ultimatums on the front runner, and then artfully smearing her because she doesn't cave to his demands. Enough already, ya know?

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Response to Trenzalore (Original post)

Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:15 AM

12. A debate in NYC?

The 9/11 Memorial would make a worthy backdrop for a debate dedicated to solely to foreign policy.

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