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Thu Apr 7, 2016, 11:44 AM

 

HRC Supporters: BS more likely to beat the Republican Nominee Meme going UNCHALLENGED!!

...and as a recent HRC convert, it's driving me mad! This meme has gone unchecked not only by the so-called pundits, but it has also gone unchecked by HRC supporters themselves. I think the only Republican challenger who does a bit better against HRC is Kasich, but he has ZERO chance of winning the primary. Now, of course he could be put on the ticket as the VP and that might help.

We've got to do better in challenging these false memes.

More importantly, the argument should be that regardless of who is more electable when put up against the Republican nominee, we are not yet in the general election cycle, so these polls are meaningless. HOWEVER, that BS and his sycophants, along with M$M commentators, continue to make this assertion could conceivably help BS build a case against HRC, and that's not good.

We've got to do better in challenging these false memes.

Thanks in advance for listening.

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Reply HRC Supporters: BS more likely to beat the Republican Nominee Meme going UNCHALLENGED!! (Original post)
Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 OP
Iliyah Apr 2016 #1
Her Sister Apr 2016 #2
BlueCaliDem Apr 2016 #3
Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #7
BlueCaliDem Apr 2016 #15
seabeyond Apr 2016 #4
Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #8
seabeyond Apr 2016 #12
DemonGoddess Apr 2016 #5
Sparkly Apr 2016 #6
Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #10
Walk away Apr 2016 #9
Iliyah Apr 2016 #11
MSMITH33156 Apr 2016 #13
Whimsey Apr 2016 #14
sheshe2 Apr 2016 #16
Gothmog Apr 2016 #17

Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 11:47 AM

1. Welcome and agreed

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 11:47 AM

2. Democrats don't believe that!

 

That's why she keeps winning the Democrats' votes! Thanks for your statement! Welcome to this side of the fence!
Yes let's challenge the whole of it!!

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 12:01 PM

3. This *has* been challenged on the facts, based on polling. 25% of Bernie supporters will NOT vote

for Hillary when she becomes the Democratic nominee. Just a couple percent of Hillary supporters won't vote for Bernie should he, by some miracle, become the Democratic nominee. Both candidates can beat Trump or Cruz, with Bernie only a few percentage points higher. But again, TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT of Bernie supporters will never vote for Hillary Clinton - and that's because they're not and have never been Democrats. They're Naderites, Paulites, disaffected Republicans, Socialists, etc. NOT Democrats who'd rather sit home making waffles if they don't get their way (how undemocratic).

So naturally, adding those fringe-groups to Bernie's column - more out of their hatred of Hillary than any policy differences - the numbers appear higher for Bernie than for Hillary.

What they forget is, the Obama Factor. Polls this far out is thus incomplete and flawed.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:18 PM

7. You: Polls this far out is thus incomplete and flawed.

 

...and no one is really paying attention. We are political observers and activists who are obsessed with this stuff. The average voter? Not so much.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 02:37 PM

15. Oh, but I believe they're paying attention, all right. They simply choose to refuse to vet him

in any meaningful way. He's their "ace in the hole" if they can't stop Trump or Cruz.

Remember what's at stake for the RW power brokers.

Yes, the White House, but the question then becomes why. My theory? Three reasons (from the Koch Bros' and KKKarl Rove's p.o.v.).

1) COAT TAILS. Republicans are faced with defending 24 seats in the Senate this presidential year, 18 which are competitive. They need to maintain power in Congress order to block any policy that may benefit the American people and/or disadvantage rampant corporate greed. An eventual Democratic president with "coat tails" ruins those plans. So a strong Democratic front-runner - one who is actually fund-raising for Democrats down the ballot - cannot win.

2) SCOTUS. A Democratic president filling Scalia's empty seat - and a Senate under Democratic Party control advising and consenting, will turn the political leanings of this hyper-partisan SCOTUS more to the left. Citizens United? GONE. Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act? Reinstated (no more egregious voter suppression/poll taxing for historically racist States). Also, three more SCOTUS seats are rumored to open up within the next eight years (Ruth Bader-Ginsberg, Stephen Breyer, and Kennedy - and, if President Obama can't get Chief Judge Garland through, the next president will. I believe, though, that with Hillary as our nominee, she'll most likely show President Obama the respect he's due {and has rarely gotten} and push Chief Judge Garland through to the SCOTUS. Then she still has three more justices to appoint in her two terms.

3) REPUBLICANS FEAR HILLARY CLINTON. She knows where the bodies are buried and which closets Republican are hiding their skeletons, and she's known for going head-to-head with any obstructionist Republican to get things done. She's a strong ally and friend, but when crossed, becomes a formidable opponent who plays to win.

Their best bet is to get a clueless Socialist to win the Democratic nomination, and they can't do that if they showed the country how useless this congresscritter has been in the past, ergo, no meaningful vetting allowed.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:00 PM

4. It is good to see and hear your voice Liberal. Be on the same side of the street. Nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:19 PM

8. Thanks. This is something I've been working on. My pragmatism has kicked in.

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 02:02 PM

12. Pragmatism serves me well, too.

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:09 PM

5. K&R!

We do fight the meme, but we are often unheard, or hidden when we do. At least here.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:18 PM

6. HRC is already running a general campaign, being hit on all sides.

The RNC doesn't want to run against her, so the candidates and the spin machine have all been taking shots at her. So has Bernie Slanders.

But the RNC has been very hands-off with Bernie. I wonder why? Is it because he's so saintly, they can't come up with a shred in oppo research except to say he's "socialist" which is a plus, not a minus, among his supporters?

Or is it maybe, just maybe, because they would love to damage HRC enough to run against Bernie, and unleash a TON of mud on him then?

Gee, I wonder..... Nah, it's just that he's perfect, and she's evil incarnate.

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Response to Sparkly (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:26 PM

10. You: But the RNC has been very hands-off with Bernie.

 

...and so is the mainstream corporate media. One of the reasons why I came over to HRC is because though I agree with some of BS's "pie in the sky" proposals; I have always tried to challenge BSers on how he intends to get these policies through.

A few things bothered me:

First, rather than answer the question, they issue ad hominem attacks on HRC, HRC supporters, and even those like me who are sympathetic to Sanders and who have may voted for him. I want SPECIFICS on *how* he draft policies that work!

Second, BS's refusal address how these policies would get through a Republican-controlled Congress, much less a Democratic Party in which BS has derided and all but condemned. The M$M has also refused to vet this guy in any thoughtful, meaningful way, which is also a turn-off.

Third, BS, his surrogates and supporters, condescendingly speak down to black voters and insult them, which really was the final straw for me. You write off the base of the Democratic Party and you will quickly learn what a huge mistake that is. (Note: Wisconsin blacks must be just as "dumb" as southern blacks because 70% of them voted for HRC in the primary.)

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:24 PM

9. If Republicans would agree to make the general election caucuses in all 50 states.....

Bernie might have something! Maybe he could sue The United States to force it to change the rules for electing the POTUS!

It is my guess that on April 19th all of these distractions from reality will be moot.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 01:33 PM

11. Agreed.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 02:08 PM

13. It is going unchallenged

But there is only so much fact checking that you can do of someone whose entire campaign is a fraud.

And this particular description is about a mythical world where he wins a nomination that he's already lost. It's annoying and ridiculous, but I'm kind of shifting to the mindset that Hillary should just ignore him entirely.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 02:21 PM

14. Sanders will lose Hillary voters too.

 





My take is that Bernie is the Democratic Trump in the media. No one took him seriously, he promised to not go negative, and so his record was not vetted. Oh, and the democrats were worried about alienating his supporters.

My conclusion is that Bernie is like every other politician - says what works for him personally and does what works for him personally. He could care less about the democratic party because he his not a democratic and never has been. At least Nader did not pretend to be a democrat.

Bernie is all rhetoric but no implementation. It's easy to state your goals, but if you cannot back them up with real plans what good is it? Hillary is a policy wonk. She does not present ideas she does not think are achievable, and she presents ways to achieve them.

I will vote for Hillary and I will not vote for Sanders. He is not a democrat and I feel no obligation to. I have many long term democratic friends who feel the same way. We all who worked our way through the state university in the seventies, graduated when the economy was tanking, took out student loans, worked hard and saved, thus achieving upper middle class incomes, and now are characterized as the enemy by Bernie Sanders - who made his income in government no less! If republicans nominate a moderate, Bernie will lose worse than Hillary. And as distasteful as Trump behaves, we all know he really is a moderate at heart, if not a democrat. But Hillary would get the women's vote.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 03:47 PM

16. So good to see you LS~

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Thu Apr 7, 2016, 07:38 PM

17. Match polls are worthless and I have been challenging these polls

I agree that Sanders' use of such polls is sad and that these polls are worthless.

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