This message was self-deleted by its author

[Warren DeMontague]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Warren DeMontague) on Sat Jun 16, 2012, 03:42 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[opiate69]

1. I, for one, would really like to be able to discuss the "Gor" series...

not necessarily "satire" (and certainly not on the same brilliant level as S.C.U.M), but certainly an important work, no?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor

[opiate69]

7. It`s an interesting series....

now, I`ve kind of hinted at it a bit but, in the interest of full disclosure, my wife and I have gotten into the BDSM lifestyle and community over the last few years (actually on her suggestion). We`re definitely not what is referred to as "Gorean", although there are some play situations we`ve been involved in which approach it to an extent. I think what`s most fascinating to me is that there is a pretty sizeable population who do self-identify as Gorean. It is a very strict, high protocol dynamic emphasizing complete dominance and submission. Very hard for me to wrap my liberal mind around at first, but the idea of "topping from the bottom" has made it more understandable.... ultimately, not my evefy day cup of tea, but I can see the appeal...

[opiate69]

10. lol... Love Vallejo.. prefer Luis Royo though

and yeah, I can see how you`d be exposed to it in SF... it`s kibd of intersting, the gay leathermen community is very Gorean in a lot of ways, but I don`t think they necessarily consider themselves that way... ultimately though, the kind of BDSM porn most people here freak out about us Gor.. all the degredation, extreme stuff... like I say though, not really our thing.. we`re mostly into sensation and restraint play

[Behind the Aegis]

3. It's distressing that some will try to parlay obvious hate into "just being critical" or "satire."

I have seen it in a number of different situations, usually it is minority against majority, but there are often times where the "violence" is minority versus minority, and even instances of the same hate leveled against members of one's own minority group.

I also don't like it that when we, as men, complain about stereotypes used against us, we are basically told to STFU or "man up." To me, this is highly hypocritical. I think there should be an honest and open discussion about stereotypes used against men by women and by other men.

[Behind the Aegis]

5. I agree. It is nothing more than rationalization of bigotry.

I think there are times things should be censored, but not always because something is "mean."

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

8. Nevermind, I figured out what you were talking about

I've gotta admit, that's the first time I've heard someone heap praise on a manifesto while asking people to completely ignore the sanity, mindset and actions of the author to the point of pretending like they really have nothing to do with it. I'd also question whether a true manifesto can actually be satire.

Then again, given whose making these arguments......shouldn't really be shocked.