Do men need to play more of a role in stopping mothers from sexualizing daughters?

[Bonobo]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/custody-risk-toddlers-tiaras-star-wears-fake-boobs-122003383--abc-news-tv.html
[h1]Custody at Risk After 'Toddlers & Tiaras' Star Wears Controversial Outfit[/h1]

The woman who dressed her young daughter as Dolly Parton - complete with a padded bra and sculpting underwear - for a child beauty pageant that aired on TLC's "Toddlers & Tiaras" could lose custody of the girl after her estranged husband claimed she sexually exploited their daughter by allowing her to dress so provocatively.

Her father, Bill Verst, has asked a Kentucky court to grant him sole custody of his daughter, who is now 6.

During a court proceeding Saturday, a judge threw reporters out of the courtroom, closed the hearing and placed a gag order on mother Lindsay Jackson. The judge also imposed a ban on any pageant activity for Maddy or her mother for the duration of the trial.

Jackson said the costume was never meant to be sexual and that she shouldn't be at risk of losing her daughter.
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[h2]Moms Wield Greater Influence Than TV on Sexualization of Girls[/h2]

http://www.myhealthnewsdaily.com/2863-girls-sexualization-mothers-attitudes.html

While the media is often blamed for influencing young girls' desire to be sexy, a new study suggests mothers' attitudes play a more important role.

In the study, researchers found no link between the amount of TV and movies that girls ages 6 to 9 watched, and their risk of sexualizing themselves. (Sexualization is defined as valuing oneself solely on sex appeal, or treating oneself as a sex object.)

However, among girls who watched a lot of TV and movies, those who had mothers who worried about their own looks were at increased risk of early sexualization, the study found.

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. Absolutely yes.

There's a corollary with boys too. Moms who project their harmful stereotypes onto them should also experience pushback.

[4th law of robotics]

2. Those shows do seem to consist of a mother and daughter

with a father either practically or literally absent.

Fathers really have no interest in reliving their youth as sexy young women by overly sexualizing their own daughters. Yeah, sorry but that's entirely the area of (some) mothers.

Fathers can fail in other ways as parents but generally this isn't it.

So yeah.

/although I have no doubt many are scrambling for ways that this is entirely the fault of the patriarchy and moms/daughters are helpless victims of the porn/rape culture.

[seabeyond]

3. fathers live thru their sons, also.

i did a thread a while ago that shows the moms are the most influential in their childrens (including sons) sexist attitude.

i have no need to shy away from our responsibility as women. or mothers. children are my priority.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1139154

[4th law of robotics]

4. Seems we should work on tearing down the sexist matriarchy then

that trains children to have such horrible notions.

And perhaps we should rethink the assumption that a child is always better off with the mother than the father (who is probably an abuser in one way or another) in custody cases.

[seabeyond]

5. you do not get the way it works, obviously. and i do not need to rethink

the assumption that a child is better off with a mother, because i have never felt that to be true. i have many many many posts where i challenge that the father is not a capable parent. that is often promoted thru men, but too many women also.

i am squarely with the best parent.

again, i have said this repeatedly and will say again. i have two brothers that raised their kids and one mother was not allowed in the childs life (actually, that is not exactly how it happened but it was a decade battle and i doubt you are interested), and one mother choose not to be in the childs life. i have lived it first hand.

[4th law of robotics]

6. Your group talks about society incessantly

then when I mention "we" as in society you fall back on "well *I* don't think that way".

again, i have said this repeatedly and will say again. i have two brothers that raised their kids and one mother was not allowed in the childs life (actually, that is not exactly how it happened but it was a decade battle and i doubt you are interested), and one mother choose not to be in the childs life. i have lived it first hand.

So do you think "we" (society) should rethink the notion that the mom is the default parent in a divorce and she gets the kid unless she really screws up royally?

[seabeyond]

7. on post 2 you had to throw in a totally bogus jab. that is what i was addressing. now

you are asking ME what i think as a society as a whole.

i told you what i think.... as a society as a whole. i told you my personal belief on the issue and what i continually speak out about, as a society as a whole. what YOU are not doing is acknowledging that you were wrong about the jab.

if i am continually speaking out about it, arguing it, giving examples of it, praising every man that takes his role as a father seriously and continually speaking out how important a fathers role is, i think YOU can conclude that it is an issue i feel strongly about with our society as a whole.

[4th law of robotics]

9. How is it a totally bogus jab?

There are plenty of blogs that fixate on positing men as the problem in every scenario. Even when the problem is entirely based on women acting a certain way men are to blame because of . . . the Patriarchy.

what YOU are not doing is acknowledging that you were wrong about the jab.

I wasn't wrong. Unless you assume that the only person in the entire world I could have been directing that at was you and no one else. If so that's a bit narcissistic. There are other people in the world you realize. And it's a bit odd to assume any comment that is both A) not addressing you and B) not addressed to you must therefore be solely about you.

if i am continually speaking out about it, arguing it, giving examples of it, praising every man that takes his role as a father seriously and continually speaking out how important a fathers role is, i think YOU can conclude that it is an issue i feel strongly about with our society as a whole.

It's clear you aren't going to get this. I reference society you speak only of yourself. So when I say society views men as less fit parents in general than women you take that as "seabeyond views men as less fit parents in general than women" and respond accordingly.

It's irrelevant to you that I never said such a thing.

[seabeyond]

10. this should have been an easy agreement. outta here. parenting to do. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. I don't think "your group" is a useful basis for discussion. n/t

[4th law of robotics]

11. Oh I know

that was my initial premise.

But because she chose to make it personal ("*I* don't feel that way&quot I decided to respond accordingly.

Her group is representative of I think about a dozen people.

[jarred222]

12. and yours isn't?

Men's Group and HoF are two sides of one fucked up coin.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Then I suggest you avoid both.

You wouldn't be allowed to repeatedly come into HoF and make broad-based slams on the group, and you can't do that here, either.

[jarred222]

16. Why? This amuses me.

Watching you twisting strawmen in the wind amuses me.

ZOMG THEY WANT ALL TEH MENZ DEAD!

Laughable.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Consider that an official warning.

Go see how the other half of the coin puts up with it. We won't.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

23. Wonder who this is....

....just served on your jury, BTW. Bye.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. He sounds vaguely familiar.

In a "the only person who would need a sock puppet to post here" kind of way.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Found it!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=1930

[4th law of robotics]

18. A) I never claimed that I represented anyone by myself

and I won't.

B) the men's group allows debate and doesn't follow the teachings of religious fundamentalists. So it really isn't fair to lump the two together.

Oh and C) look at the banned lists for both groups and compare.

[jarred222]

22. Both groups espouse gender essentialism.

Which is its own kind of fundamentalism.

[4th law of robotics]

24. No that's not true

I've never seen anyone here claim men are better than women or are the only gender worth considering.

I have seen members of a certain other forum supporting statements calling for a genocide against males and cheering on people who claim to hate all men. But that sort of thing (in reverse presumably) doesn't fly here.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. What you define as "sexism" most people here consider to be normal adult physical attraction.

This has nothing to do with adults, which is why it's so fucked up.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. I could never be involved in any way, shape, or form with anyone who would think that shit was okay.

So thankfully, personally, I don't see it being an issue.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. There is a custody battle going on here, so all bets are off...

but I suspect in "normal" families (few that there may be) as opposed to TV exploitation of a bunch of sickos, the father has as much influence on what his daughters wear as he does on his wife's wardrobe. Unless he shops for her, opening up some other issues.

The few times I've watched "Toddlers and Tiaras" I've noticed fathers apparently approving of the madness. Can't tell if they are confused about it all, resigned to the mother's obsession, or maybe even think the daughter is hot, but they are not giving much guidance. Not on camera, anyway.

How many parents are reliving their youth through their kids? No idea how many, but there's a lot of girls pushed into beauty pageants, ballet, and cheerleading with boys pushed into football, martial arts, and the military. Parents can suck.

[4th law of robotics]

20. I'm guessing the fathers that are present "accept it" in the same sense

that a wife of an alcoholic "accepts" her husbands drinking.

In that they both know they can't stop it and arguing will only lead to an argument they will lose.

[4th law of robotics]

28. Motivation

A man has no desire to relive his youth as a pretty young girl.

Some women do.

Men push their kids in to sports in a pathetic attempt to relive their glory days. They don't push them in to beauty pageants.

I would say the men are mostly just spineless (those that haven't run off).

[4th law of robotics]

30. There really isn't a lot of money in these pageants

And there's a difference between encouraging your kids to pursue sports if they like it (or any other activity) and forcing them in to something against their will (and in ways that are not good for the kid) because you want to relive your glory days.

"You like the piano? Ok I'll pay for lessons" vs "you will become an expert pianist if you want me to love you, I don't care if you'd rather play baseball".