(CAUTION: SCARY WORDS)

[Bonobo]

Fuck, screw, piss, shit, crap, penis, cock, balls, ass, crack, tits, shlong, cum...

All offensive because they have to do with sex? They are vulgar? We use slang for intercourse, for the male sexual organ, for ejaculation, for buttocks...

But vagina... Now, when we come to the word "vagina", for some reason, any slang term is considered "sexist".

Why "sexist? Is it taking away power, rights, opportunities from women to use a slang term for a vagina?

P**ssy is no good. C**t is worse. Can we say h**ch? What? Is there any acceptable word other than "vagina"?

I guess I just do not understand why there can be so many slang words for everything else, but that ALONE is the offending one.

I guess it has to do with the Patriarchy or something. Maybe Rape Culture?

[Warren DeMontague]

1. I know I am not alone in saying

I eagerly await the jury results.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

2. I would avoid using the slang for breasts too

If I were you.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. What have you got against

a lovely pair of tits?

[Warren DeMontague]

4. Please post the alert results when they come in, okay?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

5. More fun will be predicting when it actually get alerted

[geek tragedy]

6. If you've seen men use it as an insult, it's not acceptable as slang in reference to a vagina

just about anywhere.

"Va-jay-jay" is not the same as "c@nt" or "p@ssy."

[Warren DeMontague]

7. A lot of people out here in the real world are grown ups and can handle the use of these words.

Both men and women, believe it or not.

They use them, they hear them, they manage to make it through their day without their heads exploding, scanners-style.

They don't melt into pools of eternally wounded outrage.

[geek tragedy]

8. Sure, everything is context dependent.

But the context here is a political discussion board that purports to uphold progressive values such as gender equality.

In the real world, terms like 'slut' and 'bitch' get hurled around all the time, and people have to deal. Ask Sandra Fluke. But it's hardly unreasonable to have higher standards here than we demanded of Rush Limbaugh.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. And the context of Sandra Fluke was Rush Limbaugh implying that sex is bad and evil and people-

-women- shouldn't have it.

In case you haven't noticed, the "sex negative" people are not hanging out in this group.

[geek tragedy]

10. No, the context was that it was derogatory towards women and a slur.

Similarly, referring to a woman as "frigid" would also be misogynistic.

And "sex negative" is big fail when it comes to describing people, unless you happen to be their therapist or spouse you have no idea regarding that kind of thing.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Yes, the implication was that people shouldn't fuck, they should cover up and pray.

Which is basically the same damn repackaged line coming from some of the other anti-sex zealots and authoritarians running around. Same shit, different day.

[geek tragedy]

12. No, it's the notion that a woman's sexual identity is fair game for political discourse.

Much like labeling feminists "sex negative" because they object to prostitution and porn as forms of commercial exploitation.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. She was talking about birth control. So he was shaming her for having sex.

That you refuse to grok that implies that you are more concerned with pushing a narrow agenda than with actual womens' and reproductive issues.

[geek tragedy]

16. No, it's the idea that if a woman disagrees with a man on issues like

birth control or prostitution, she's the one who has an attitude problem regarding sex.

Some in our society 'slut-shame' women who resist patriarchal efforts to control their sexuality, just like some try to shame as "sex negative" women who resist patriarchal economic exploitation of their sexuality.

Larry Flynt is every bit the misogynist woman-hater that Limbaugh is.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. Hmm....

....but if a sex worker makes a choice to engage in whatever it is she does, then according to many sex negative feminists, she must be manipulated by the patriarchy, and/or incapable of making an informed decision about her life....

Apparently it's okay to control a woman's sexuality, as long as it's not under the banner of the dreaded Patriarchy and instead done by "informed" women.

[geek tragedy]

35. There is no such thing as 'sex negative' feminism.

Being anti-porn (or anti-prostitution) makes a feminist 'sex negative' as much as not liking Grey's Anatomy makes someone 'hospital-negative.'

Note, btw, that very few feminists target their ire for women who participate in the sex industry--rather it's the demand for such stuff that is the problem.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

38. It's a backdoor way of doing the same thing

Nice subterfuge, but at the end of the day you are still trying to control women and consenting adults whose decisions you don't agree with.

[geek tragedy]

40. No. Sex and porn are different things.

One is part and parcel of the human experience. The other is a commercial product.

I feel sorry for people who can't tell the difference between porn and sex.

And note that no one is talking about banning porn anymore--that ship has sailed.

And, with regard to prostitution, the preferred model is the Swedish one, where the women aren't prosecuted (getting counseling on how to transition out instead) and the men are prosecuted.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. "that ship has sailed"

I'm sure you're disappointed.

I think it's interesting that you admit sex is part and parcel of the human experience. And yet, a lonely man....a virgin at 45....someone suffering from a disability....who simply longs to be touched by woman once in his life....you would likely dismiss as a fat, ugly loser or a pig.

There are many reason a man would visit a prostitute. It's easy for you dismiss all instances as being something out of a seedy Bangkok rape club trip.

As far as the Swedish model, why not counsel the men as well instead of needless, pointless prosecution?

[geek tragedy]

44. "Johns school" is used in NY for guys who get busted.

It's a joke. They giggle throughout it, etc etc.

I don't favor banning expressive material. Even if it's vile and repulsive. Even if one were motivated to do so, it's difficult to articulate a standard that permits Lady Chatterly's Lover but excludes Ass To Mouth 8.

The sad fellow who can't get laid through no fault of his own hypothetical is right up there with the single mother who needs an AR15 to defend her children.

Hello, it's easier to pay to rent a woman's orifices than it is to invest the time and energy in fostering a relationship. Plus, you don't get to make demands or set the terms if you're not the boss/client.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

46. Hmm....

So all one needs is time and energy, and a relationship is theirs....

You'd make a hell of a therapist.

[geek tragedy]

49. I know, it's terrible. You actually have to make to convince

someone that you're worth their time, energy, and trust.

Truly an awful burden to be placed on menfolk.

Men who can't get laid are truly the most oppressed victims in society.

Sorry, I don't buy the "all men are entitled to have themselves stimulated to ejaculation by a woman" theory.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. If you're looking for a place to unload endlessly on how shitty men are, you're in the wrong group.

I'm going to suggest you grind your axe somewhere else.

[geek tragedy]

57. I'm not unloading on men. I'm a man myself.

Part of being a man is doing what is right, and standing up for what is right vis a vis women. And to acknowledge our privilege and refrain from abusing it.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. I dont care. Your language and attitude ("menfolk") are not appropriate for this group.

This is not the place to imagine yourself morally qualified to lecture others about "checking their privilege". Thanks.

[geek tragedy]

62. Oh, I see. No discussion of male privilege in the men's group. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

66. You thought this was the place to find an eager audience to be lectured at about the many things

Wrong with them?

Really?

[geek tragedy]

70. No, it's a place to whine about not being able to use language

so steeped in misogyny that using it in the workplace is grounds for a sexual harassment suit.

As per this thread.

Also, important topics like "which hot actress would you like to date?"

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Okay, since you have such a problem with this group, you don't need to come here anymore.

Goodbye.

[opiate69]

78. ...

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Actually, it's "which hot celeb", and it's been a very popular thread. So.. why would you

genderize it? There are men AND women in that thread, appreciated by again, both men AND women.

Oh, I know why! Because patriarchy penis penis oppression lookism male gaze evil sexy hot evil entitlement penis penis patriarchy! Right?

I also know (yeah, I do) that it's continued existence seems to bug the everlovin' CRAP out of some people.

[BainsBane]

88. now you're going to preach about language?

[Warren DeMontague]

92. No, that's not what I'm doing.

What I am doing is saying that if someone is looking for a place where they can expound endlessly to men about their shortcomings and all the things they need to apologize for, this is not the group to do it in.

Pretty fucking simple.

[BainsBane]

94. "menfolk"

How dare Greek Tragedy use such an offensive word. THAT is what you said.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. If I went into HoF and started talking about "womenfolk", you think that would go over well?

However, again, we are not going to allow this sort of meta drama in this group.

You are clearly here to continue a discussion about a blocked member and stir up additional crap that this group isn't interested in. So, you've been warned.

[BainsBane]

98. Yes, sir!

[Warren DeMontague]

87. I know. I wonder how many shudders of ecstasy were felt when Iceland suggesting banning smut?

"Oh! Oh! So Good! So Good!"


Except that by most accounts, it's not feasable, not even there. Not even on an island with a limited number of internet connection nodes to the mainland. Not to mention the pesky libertarian dog-doo types who came out of the wordwork to predictably blather on about "free speech" (They MUST ALL BE MRAS!)

Talk about frrrrrrrrustration

[Warren DeMontague]

123. "That ship has sailed" ... No, its still very much central to the agenda. Just downplayed, because

It's a loser.

Yes, extricating the porn from the internet.. Good fucking luck. Porn has DRIVEN the internet from the get go, not to mention technologies like VHS, DVD etc etc.

This bizarre fantasy of getting rid of it; honestly, it is like nothing so much as the anti choice fantasy that they're going to get rid of contraception. And make no mistake, that IS the fantasy. It is all about control.

...but the real agenda is so unpopular, so nuts, the "public" face has to be presented as "reasonable".

Every once in a while, someone in Iceland or the EU gets honest, usually someone who obviously understands little of how the internet actually works. Which brings me to my next question, this constant (and laughable) objection that "no one is suggesting banning it".. (I mean, except for the people who are.)

Say Ugandan lawmakers, as they have, propose horrible anti-gay laws, like this death penalty bullshit. Then someone says "Oh, no one really supports the death penalty for gay people". Yet then they turn around and say something like "I'm so glad Uganda is finally addressing the gay issue".. What sort of reasonable conclusion can be drawn about the principals in that exchange?

...About what they actually DO support, as well as their disingenuousness around pursuing their agenda?

[Warren DeMontague]

51. That's funny. Maybe you should tell this blogger to stop calling herself that.

http://radtransfem.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/the-prudes-progress-part-i/

[geek tragedy]

54. Where does that phrase appear?

And for what school of feminists does she speak?

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Did you click the link? It's right there in the post heading.

A Sex-Negative Feminist Analysis of the Problem

As for the rest, why don't you ask her? This group is not here to help you sort this shit out, or to provide a place for you to unload endlessly about the myriad problems you find with (your quote) "menfolk".

[geek tragedy]

58. Most men don't complain about not being able to pay for sex.

They recognize that sex isn't something one buys, it's something one shares with another human being, or other human beings.

I didn't realize that being pro-porn and pro-prostitution was essential to being in favor of empowering men, according to group rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Who SPECIFICALLY is "complaining" about that in this thread?

I mean, aside from the deliberately disruptive "mens rights" strawmen you keep dragging in.

[geek tragedy]

63. It started with a discussion of the purported 'sex negative' myth that gets

applied unfairly to feminists.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Translation; i made it up, because no one here is actually saying it.

However, i have a big axe to grind against these evil "menfolk" who feel "entitled to buy v-----" so thats what im going to do.

As for sex negative, look, not only does the shoe fit in SOME cases, as i pointed out, it is another label that some proudly self apply.

[geek tragedy]

68. You found one blog.

Big axe to grind? Not particularly, but trying to stigmatize well-founded ideological opposition to such practices as 'sex negative' peddles some harmful myths.

[Warren DeMontague]

79. Word Salad Salad Word

What is it with some people and word salad?

[Warren DeMontague]

18. you can keep telling yourself that

but it's really just warmed up old-fashioned Western Religious puritanism and sex-guilt, repackaged and reflavored.

That's why Dworkin and MacKinnon so eagerly palled up with Ed Meese against, yes, Larry Flynt. It's not that hard to figure out.

Let me guess; women should be in charge of their sexuality, until they decide to take off their clothes in front of a camera, right? Then it's okay to pillory them, or otherwise imagine that they're suddenly befuddled, helpless, and incapable of making their own damn decisions about their own damn bodies. And somehow the folks with the crazy, pesky notions that consenting adults should ALL be free to make up their own minds, are the bigots and oppressors.

I won't even get into the "yes really means no because patriarchy that's why" crap.

[geek tragedy]

21. Nope. They just disapprove of institutions whose foundation is economic and

social inequality between the genders that provides a mechanism by which men get vagina on demand.

But, go on telling yourself that the average prostitute enters that lifestyle after completing her masters' degree and turning doen jobs as a lawyer or doctor instead of in her mid-teens, and that you and Larry Flynt are the progressive ones who could teach Catherine Mackinnon about what feminism really is.

That you think feminists sit around hating on women who take their clothes off on camera just shows you literally have no idea what their concerns really are.

When in reality it's "how dare anyone question the male right to rent women's orifices like a U-Haul?"

As if there's this vast number of women decide to have sex with 5-20 fat, ugly losers a day because that's such an attractive lifestyle.

As if Ron Paul's extreme libertarianism suddenly becomes true when the question becomes a man's right to get his dick sucked for cash.

So, please spare us the nonsense of the men's rights folks being all about liberating their sisters in the sex industry.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. I'm sorry.... "men's rights"? What are you on about now?

Maybe if you find a "mens rights" person, you can take it up with them.

Did you wander in here expecting a fight with... I don't know what?


And then there's "libertarianism" waved around like it's dog doo on a stick! (not to mention, "...on demand"... nice use of anti-choice language, there. Whoops!) I think I just hit authoritarian bingo! You know what else is an "extreme libertarian" position? Thinking that consenting adults should be free to smoke pot in their homes, that we shouldn't spend $60 Billion a year on a "drug war" focused on throwing them in prison for it. Ooooooh! Libertarianism! Dog Doo on a stick!

Fucking A Yes, I think consenting adults need the freedom to make their own damn choices, even bad ones. WHOA! OH NO! EXTREEEEEME LIBERTARIANISM!



FREAAAAAK THE FUCK OUT!!!!



Yeah. And I think there is a tremendous amount of judgment and fretting, in some quarters, over what OTHER people do and choose to do. And I think it's driven by fundamental discontent or unhappiness with those folks' own lives.

Sort of how the few anti-choicers I saw lining the march for womens lives in DC in 2004, where I marched with 1.2 Million other Feminists (I hauled my ass across the country to do that.... were you there?), looked like they hadn't had a single satisfactory orgasm among them since 1974. When people are pissed off and unsatisfied, they usually express it by trying to CONTROL THE CONSENTING ADULT BEHAVIOR OF OTHERS.

It's a weird fetish, if you ask me.

[geek tragedy]

36. The same arguments for 'consenting adults' in prostitution were made in Lochner v NY.

Why have minimum wage laws, OSHA regulations, etc when consenting adults can create whatever contract they desire?

Pot doesn't give people PTSD.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. So that invalidates all arguments which contain the words (eeeew!) "consenting adults"?

Personally, I think that even with something like prostitution, legalization with regulation (regulation meaning things like minimum wage laws) is potentially a more sensible answer than criminalization.

But, mmmmmm, I'm not sure how we got to prostitution. Since we're just gonna throw assorted stuff at the wall to see if it sticks, here, do you think it should be against the law for consenting adults to fuck in front of a camera, and/or for other consenting adults to watch the film of said fucking?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

32. "fat, ugly losers"

Well, they're men, so I guess it's okay to use those insults, eh?

[geek tragedy]

33. No, that's the kind of man who goes out and has to buy sex as if it's

a Blu-Ray player.

Anyone who's traveled to sex tourist destinations has seen that crowd--guys who look like Dick Cheney in speedos trying to rent women who look like Sofia Vergara.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. I suppose if I talked about male gigolos....

....having to make love to a woman who looked like Shelly Winters in a moo moo....that would be alert worthy, wouldn't it?

[geek tragedy]

37. If you want to specifically target the vanishingly small number

of women who go out and pay for sex, be my guest.

Men who pay for sex are pigs. Oink oink.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. That's your opinion....

Rush Limpballs thinks Sandra Fluke is a slut, and Michelle Bachmann thinks gays can be "cured".

C'est la vie.

[geek tragedy]

41. Rush Limbaugh is the typical sex tourist.

No man pays for sex for any reason that respects women.

As I said, men who pay for sex are pigs, losers, and no more redeemable than Flynt and Limpballs.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

42. Again, that's your opinion

I'm sure you condemn people who visit sex therapists as well then?

[geek tragedy]

45. Yeah, totally the same. Therapy vs vagina on demand.

Sorry, do not buy the "if it gives me a boner or an ejaculation, it has to be good" theory.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

47. Do you know what a sex therapist does?

Don't watch "The Sessions", your head might explode.

[geek tragedy]

48. Sex therapists are therapists.

Their role is therapeutic, not to help a man ejaculate at a time and place of his convenience.

Their role is to help a man have healthy sexual relationships, not replace healthy sexual relationships.

[BainsBane]

90. I hope you realize

That there are tens of thousands of sex workers in this country who are in fact enslaved. They have no choice whether to sell their bodies. They have no choice where they live, what they do, of anything else. They are owned by others. If one hires a prostitute, there is a good chance that they are helping to finance human trafficking.
They are also forced to be subjects of pornography. More women are currently held in bondage than at any point in human history.


Now please justify slavery to us.

http://www.womensfundingnetwork.org/resource/past-articles/enslaved-in-america-sex-trafficking-in-the-united-states
https://www.freedomcenter.org/slavery-today
http://blogs.state.gov/index.php/site/entry/modern_slavery_emancipation_proclamation/

[cliffordu]

119. Wanna REALLY be an activist??

Put your money where your mouth is:

http://www.bayswan.org/penet.html

[BainsBane]

91. there is the minor issue

That tens of thousands of those women are in fact enslaved. But don't let that worry you.

http://www.womensfundingnetwork.org/resource/past-articles/enslaved-in-america-sex-trafficking-in-the-united-states

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. I don't know about that first line

My feeling with Limpballs is that women shouldn't fuck if they are 1) not fucking him and 2) not attractive to him or talking about sex in an "unattractive" way.

But conversely, the sex negative types only want to hear sex talk if it's done in some clinical, formal, or academic way.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. He's just a plain old turd, and a hypocrite to boot.

He's deeply unhappy and he takes it out on the rest of the world. It pisses him off that other people are happy with themselves and their existence.


Reminds me of a lot of folks.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. and here's another difference:

"don't judge me for what I personally choose to do or not do"

vs.

"don't judge me for judging what other people choose to do or not do"

They're not the same thing.

[Bonobo]

22. So "vay-jay-jay" is okay with you?

But what if, for example, someone said "the stripper had a stanky vay-jay-jay".

I just know that would be offensive, but NOT because of the term "day-jay-jay"

So it now looks like the content and not the form is the issue.

See?

[geek tragedy]

23. Expressing physical revulsion towards a woman's sexual organs is so

obviously offensive that it should really not need to be explained.

[Bonobo]

24. I suppose that is true for men's genitals too?

I assume then that every time a woman, whether she is lesbian, a rape victim, a rad fem or whatever, EVERYTIME se says that penises are gross or disgusting or make her sick --I suppose you get equally outraged.

Right?

See the thing is... offensive is not the same as sexist nor is it even the same as misogyny.

If a woman says penises are icky, I do not scream and say that she is a man-hater and is trying to hurt all men's feelings.

Especially if she was referring to a penis that is not hygienic. See how you have so easily gone from talking about offensive WORDS to offensive ideas and thoughts without even blinking or realizing it?

People HAVE the right to have opinions that may offend. Maybe they shouldn't say them if they are nice, but it does not make them misogynists and it doesn't threaten to further force women into a subservient social position.

It just BUGGED you. And that's okay. But it isn't sexist.

[geek tragedy]

25. You know, I never hear women express revulsion towards penises in general.

Not even lesbians. Maybe one has to seek such discussions out.

Unhygienic body parts are nasty as a general rule, armpits etc.

But, assuming that a woman's private parts are unclean with zero evidence to that end, well, he who does that deserves the flak he catches.

It's really not that hard to avoid being offensive in that way.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Heh.

If you're "repulsed" by the private parts of the individuals you're ostensibly sexually attracted to, you're doing it wrong.

[BainsBane]

93. there is no problem with using the word vagina

in it's appropriate context. Making up childish names like vajayjay is ridiculous.

[Gore1FL]

31. I don't get upset about "Dick," "Cock," or anything like that when it is used.

For that matter I've been called the "official" word "penis" before.

I suppose we could try to divert culture to using a sex-generic "unspecified genitalia." This leads to the larger issue as to why anyone actually cares.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. This is my new favorite thing

[Purveyor]

26. What about 'twat'? That is always my favorite when being called a 'dick'? Just wondering... eom

[Warren DeMontague]

29. What? I can't hear you, I have an ear infection.

See you when tea is hot.

Or something along those lines.

[sigmasix]

30. bothersome games

I can understand the notion that pointing out the hypocrisy of any group that displays self-righteous behavior is neccessary (and fun)- hell the Teabaggers are one group using hypocrisy as the main uniting force. What I don't get is the reason for being so precious about the idea that a man's slang term for vaginas can have sexist implications for some feminists. Of course there are deeply rooted issues attached to this particular line of "linguistic critique" in society's treatment of sex organ slang terms. I fail to understand the need for what appears to be manufactured indignation on the part of progressive men over this.
I know lot's of right wing men that are threatened by the very existence of feminist critique- those right wing misogynists know that an outward display of misogyny reveals them for what they are, so they attack the so-called systemic unfairness created by feminism, and point to these types of issues as proof that feminism and women's equality leads to horrible injustices for males.
This just isn't true.
A good man (or woman) will almost always refrain from purposely using offensive rhetorical devices to make his/her point. The PO may be materially correct, but the reason for the implied importance of the PO seems unrelated to the impact of the distinction being made.
Shouldn't progressive men (if that's what they are-DU members OUGHT to be, anyway) choose a more important issue to concentrate on, like disparities in child gaurdianship and support, instead of igniting flames of resentment and discord between DUers and other progressives?
Just an idea from a male feminist, please don't construe this as an attack on notions of fairness and freedom of speech, because it isn't.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. This isn't about misogyny or right wing men or people threatened by "feminist critique".

This is about people who have spent 10 years trying to get the word "b***h" banned from this site.

Want to talk about misguided priorities? There it is. 10 FUCKING YEARS. To make sure no one here says "Man, Karma's a b***h"

Because it doesn't matter how many posters get banned, how many lines in the sand are drawn, there will always be a new outrage, a new excuse, a new word, a new [font size=4]absolutely the most horrible intolerable thing that has ever happened since the history of ever and it. must. not. STAND!!!!![/font]

People are fucking sick of it. It's a grown-up website and people use grown up words. Including words for sex and genitalia. You know? Fucking enough, already.

[Bonobo]

55. Hell yes. nt

[geek tragedy]

59. So, "pussy" and "bitch" and "cunt" are the grown-up words and feminists are being

childish by objecting to them?

Horse puckey. Those words add zero value to any remotely constructive dialogue.

This is a political website, not literotica.com

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Yes, they are grown up words.

I guess you melt into a puddle of outrage when you read the rude pundit, too. Hunter S. Thompson? Lenny Bruce? Did they "need" to use all that nasty nasty language? Heavens, think of teh chuldren!

That whole "contributes to constructive dialogue" crap needs to be retired, too. I remember some giant fucking tantrum someone had on DU2 where they tried to lecture me on the 1st Amendment and the "purpose" of free speech, specifically that ONLY free speech which furthered this person's idea of social progress, was actually protected by the 1AM.

What a crock of shit.

Language is what it is. And this is, like i said, a grownup website for grownups. If people are so traumatized by the expression sexuality in our culture (what this is really about, at the end of the day) they probably ought to install net nanny software and be done with it.

[geek tragedy]

69. It seems you are traumatized by taking words dripping in misogyny

out of your active vocabulary.

The Internet's a big place. Plenty of places where you can write "pussy bitch cunt" without anyone speaking up to object.

The right to call women bitches and cunts here has been fought, and your side lost that debate, rightly so.

And the use of those words has ZERO relevance to the purposes of this group, to hoist you on your own petard.

[geek tragedy]

71. By the way, if using a word in the workplace will get you sued

for sexual harassment, it's not appropriate for a progressive political board.

Amazing that some do not comprehend this.

[opiate69]

67. "feminists"?? No...

Some feminists... because, much like your criticism of the self-proclaimed Sex-negative feminist upthread, no one single person, or group of people, speak for "feminism" on the whole. Despite the fact that some here suffer under the delusion that they - and they alone - do. I can assure you that there are many feminists who not only don`t go into fits of apoplexy over those words, but actually embrace them.

[geek tragedy]

72. So, if a male coworker complains about the 'cunts' and 'bitches' in

another department, you'd expect HR to tell any woman objecting to grow up?

[opiate69]

73. Do let me know when DU starts putting us all on the payroll...

Analogy fail.. the fact that you think otherwise is one of the most amusing things I`ve read in weeks.

[geek tragedy]

74. So, DU should be more permissive of misogynistic language than

virtually every workplace?

[LadyHawkAZ]

89. Misogynist language like calling a woman a "rape apologist"? Or a "Todd Akin"?

I wonder how far that would get you at work? Warren would never, ever tolerate anyone coming in here using misogynist language like that toward a rape victim, and neither to my knowledge would any other man here. But thanks for the irony.

Part of being a man is doing what is right, and standing up for what is right vis a vis women. And to acknowledge our privilege and refrain from abusing it.

Back onto ignore you go, and this subthread goes poof.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. Thank you.

And it's worth noting that there is a big difference between using those words, or other graphic sex-related words, and calling people them.

Each may be appropriate, given various times and places, but it would never be acceptable to use any of them to talk about another DU member, not here or anywhere else on the site; and a fellow DU member would be the closest analogous person to a "co-worker" under that strained, overused, and totally not relevant analogy.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. It seems to be a popular analogy these days.

Apparently we're all going to be fired AND sued.

[opiate69]

80. funny that...

I`m pretty sure this was put together and *gasp* even published in a "workplace".. they probably even have a dreaded HR department!!

Disclaimer: The above link goes to a popular book in some feminist circles and contains language which some viewers may find objectionable.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. you can buy it with the "big bijou c*** coloring book"!

and If you buy them both together, 9 months later you get a coloring book about babies.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

99. Gimme a break....

....you'd also get in trouble for saying shit, fuck, asshole, motherfucker, etc....and no one is stopping anyone from saying those things....


Yet.

The comparison to a workplace is idiotic.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. FYI, Geek Tragedy has been blocked from the group, at least on a probationary basis.

Coming in here and insulting the group with statements like "this is a place to whine" is not acceptable behavior nor will it be tolerated in this space. Other comments in the thread, statements like "menfolk" speak for themselves.

I will discuss this with LJ however for the time being he is out of here.

[LadyHawkAZ]

83. Well damn

I had a report from the Swedish government showing the rise in trafficking under the wonderful fantastic supercalifragilistic "Swedish model" all set to post to them too, and then I got home too late. I am disappoint.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Go ahead and post it- although I'd say it might do better as a thread of its own.

how he got that this thread was about prostitution, I'm not really sure.

[LadyHawkAZ]

85. Unless you're all dying to read it

or rather read the post about it since the report's in Swedish, I think I'll just hang on to it till the next prostitution-is-icky thread. We're due for one anytime, anyway.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Fair 'nuff.

It's rather predictable, the way these things come in cycles, isn't it?

[BainsBane]

95. So glad you're not policing language

that you find so offensive you've banned him from your group.
Hypocrisy is sooo entertaining!

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Yargle blargle blargle yarg.

You can't come into a protected group and insult the group and the members. He's free to say whatever the fuck he wants elsewhere on DU.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

100. I'm glad you're cool with people running down entire groups.

But only some groups, right?

[BainsBane]

104. what groups?

Warren is a group of what? What are you calling him?

[name not needed]

101. Good.

Now to block the rest of Iverglas' lackeys.

[Warren DeMontague]

102. gee, ya think?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

103. It is still a very, very small list

And the people there, I suspect, aimed to get on it.

[MADem]

108. For someone who purports to object to naughty words,

that poster uses 'em (in "quotes" of course, to separate him or herself from them--see??? SEE?? SEE how awful these words are..??? Let me spell them out for you, over and over! And put quotes around them, to add to the drama!!! Oh, the huge manatee!!!!) more than most people. Count up all the C words and P words in this thread--most of them come from one source! What's up with that? I really think that word is most often used here on DU by people purporting to object to it.

I found my way to this thread from Meta, where yet another headbanging, shit-flinging festival of Naughty Word/Bad DUer outrage is festering.

I really think Skinner should start looking at DUmails. It might be instructive.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. I'm not sure if you can call it "yet another".

As near as I can figure, there's been essentially one continuous one and its myriad iterations, running for a long time, maybe since 2004, maybe earlier?

[MADem]

110. Entirely possible.

I think it would be an interesting exercise to see who has said (INSERT NAUGHTY WORD) the most here on DU.

I wonder if we'd be surprised as to who uses the word(s) the most?

[Denninmi]

105. What this thread needs is

[Warren DeMontague]

107. No no no

go big or go home.

[LanternWaste]

111. Must be rather difficult for many people to simply avoid using colloquial and vulgar slang

Must be rather difficult for many people to simply avoid using colloquial and vulgar slang, and instead rationalize its use...

[Warren DeMontague]

112. either that, or adults don't like being scolded like errant preschoolers for R rated talk.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. thanks a lot, Bonobo.

Gee, whiz.

[Bonobo]

114. Never say I didn't give you anything.

Ironically, after all this, I still have no answer.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. I told you, you brought Christmas to meta, early.

Trees grow, cats meow, and meta fights over this stuff.

[Upton]

116. Remember..must have been almost a year now

when one of my Men's Group posts got hauled down to Meta because the latest outrage was my use of the term Dworkinite? You told me then something to the effect.."if it wasn't that it would have been something else"..Man, were you ever right, it seems like it's something different at least 3 times a week and always from the same posters...

[Warren DeMontague]

117. if you haven't had a chance...

check this out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1354644&mesg_id=1354644

the more things change...

[Warren DeMontague]

118. It's educational. For instance, Who knew DU used to have a user named "HootieMcBoob"

I wonder what happened to old Hootie McBoob, anyway.

[Upton]

120. If Hootie was here today..

the username would have been alerted on, with possibly a thread in Meta demanding a PPR to go with it. Sexism aimed at Irish women? Never mind that "boob" has more than one meaning...some DUers seem to believe they can see into the hearts and minds of others. Must be a neat trick.

[Warren DeMontague]

121. I'd alert on him for his name reminding me vaguely of Hootie and the Blowfish

which is a band better left in the mists of time.

[caseymoz]

122. All of those are known as objectionable words.

The question is only by who and why.

I think it depends on if the word can be used as an insult, and how deep the cut is when it's used in that way. Nobody would call a woman a p*ssy, but it's a big insult to call her a c*nt. Why? Complex psychological reasons. A lot has to do with the sound of the words and the metaphors and pictures evoked. "P*ssy" says soft consensual sex. C*nt says hard sex or rape.

Now calling a man either of those is a huge insult. Now, if women would object to those words, why would a man feel a deeper insult from being called a p*ssy than being called a d*ck?

[Warren DeMontague]

124. Don't forget "Unit"

[Bok_Tukalo]

125. That's almost like piece of a cadence I remember from my Army days

Wellllllllllllllll ... eat bite fuck suck gobble nibble chew
Tittie bossom hairpie fingerfuck screw
Moose piss cat pud orangutan tit
Sheep pussy ballbang pig lion shit

[Warren DeMontague]

126. now there are actual pictures of actual boobs in GD, which were not hidden by a jury, even.

That sound you hear is the sound of heads 'asplodin'.

[Warren DeMontague]

127. "Dicknuts!"