Education
Related: About this forumDo I have an IDEA/ADA case?
Okay a bit about me. I am a grad student at a major US university (for privacy sake I will not say which one), seeking my Master's in Special Education (well technically I already have it) with certification (that is the hard part). In pretty much all my classes and internships I passed with flying colors, acing all but one class (which was nearly impossible for me as I also have a reading learning disability and the professor didn't spend any time going over the book). Thus I started my first student teaching placement last fall.
This is where problems started occurring. My first placement was a disaster, which was not helped by the fact that even before I had really started teaching my cooperating teacher told me she doubted if an autistic could be an effective teacher (if you can't tell by my name I have been diagnosed with Asperger's). The classroom environment, while probably representative of the new age of special education was a disaster. In my classes I could expect anywhere from 6 students to 23 students, ranging in ability levels from preschool level to 6th grade level. Creating lesson plans for such students is not easy, and I was given NO help on this at all. Literally from my very first lesson until the time the placement was stopped I was told, "Just do whatever you want." Generally my cooperating teacher would be doing IEPs and the one time I actually did ask for help due to a para I was planning on using being sick she has quite the attitude. Needless to say, this placement didn't end well.
My second placement was far more ideal, but once again I had a teacher who made it a point to say that autistics aren't capable of succeeding in, as she put it, such a social job. She even went as far as to suggest that my university was just taking money from me (despite them not asking for anything that term). This placement for the most part went great. The students were learning (what I always feel is the most important thing despite the fact that my university has me graded for this 3 times throughout student teaching, compared to the 17 times I am graded for maintaining effective friendships with my co-workers). However, after about 4 weeks my cooperating teacher said I was not progressing enough, and a few weeks later I was dismissed.
This time I actually did get some clue as to the reasons why, but most of them escape me. 2 are directly related to my autism (one had to do with me stimming at the wrong times, and one was about the "maintaining effective friendships" which she always gave me passing marks in), 2 were bogus (one was me not differentiating between students enough... when I never had more than two at the same level, forget what the other one was), and one was that I joked around a bit too much (okay... I get this one, but a lot of teachers joke around with their students, as long as the work gets done who cares?, beyond that she never mentioned this prior to releasing me). After this the university said no more.
Beyond all this I was never given any supports beyond a class that I had to pay $1,000 to take (and was/is largely useless to someone who has been in college 6 1/2 years) and a counselor I had to drive 15 miles to see (through city traffic) and was hard to schedule an appointment with. Nothing was done to help me at all by the teachers/schools, who both made it a point to say autistics shouldn't teach (ironically, both of them had little to no experience with HFA/asperger's, and little experience with LFA). The irony there is I just want to teach HFA/aspies, so I would think someone who would understand them as well as I can would be ideal. So I am wondering, does anyone think I have a claim at disability discrimination, and is it worth it to make that claim?
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mrmpa
(4,033 posts)however, I would say that your university has failed you. They seemed not to have given much thought as to who they were placing you with. Your cooperative teacher from the university should have seen the "failure" signs before it got too far. My suggestion is if you have an appeal system within the university I would go that route.
I would suggest that you tell the university want you want (in regard to the teacher you are placed with, what you want from the cooperative university professor, the environment you are placed in and you will not pay for this).
Hope this helps you a bit.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)a strict appeal really wouldn't help me much IMO. It would just put me back into the same position, while simultaneously costing me a great deal of money if I succeed (I can't work full time and student teach at the same time, I doubt anyone could, which means more loans). The appeal process also won't make the university too happy at me (of course neither would the lawsuit process, but there I might get more of a directive placed on my university). Beyond that it is April now, and they make people apply for student teaching in Feb., so it is quite possible that they have already placed people with anyone I would want, this is what happened last term and why I was placed at the last second with the least desirable teacher. I hate poopooing this idea, but I just don't see it working that well.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)does not carry to the college level. Suggest that you schedule a meeting w/the head of the dept. to discuss your concerns. But I will tell you that it is very, very unlikely that you can/will only be hired to teach children with Asperger's or with Autism. Today's special education programs are very diversified and will continue to be so.
You don't indicate if at the BS/BA level you had any classroom experience, so difficult to know what your problem with the lesson plans is about. Perhaps you need to ask some of your co-workers or others just what an ideal Teacher looks like.
Needless to say, the entire country is pretty mixed up on that.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)In any metropolitian area, there are schools/programs designed just for autistic kids. I know of about 3 private schools, and 3 public school class programs just for autistic kids in my area that I know about (which admittedly is one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country), with allegedly a charter school on the way (doesn't seem like it will make it though). If I could find a way to afford to live in the Bay Area of California, there would be no end to the amount of programs there. You would be amazed at how undiverse some programs are, especially when it comes to autism which has so many different types of challenges not generally seen in special education as academically the type of students I want to teach are just fine, but place them in that setting and problems quickly arise, trust me. I am not planning this blind, I know that the jobs are out there, and I am willing to travel just about anywhere to find and land them.
This all is pretty much my first teaching experience, and therefore also first lesson writing experience. I did frequently ask to see my co-workers lesson plans in the first placement with no success (she said she didn't want me to copy), and my lesson plans in the second placement were just fine, and granted much easier to write (it helps so much when students are at similar cognitive levels).
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)to be in Resource Rooms to enable them to also take part in instruction with their peers (as role models) in the General Education classroom. For a RR Teacher, this necessitates that the RR Teacher be extremely flexible with the student, with the rest of the teaching staff and with the parent's of the student. The student's are unlikely to have the same cognitive level, social ability and work ethic in a RR placement and also in so called self-contained placements. So I will say again, the notion of only teaching high functioning Autistic kids in specialized programs is not likely and competition will be stiff. Having said that, there is more of a demand for Teachers with the ASD certification provided they are capable of handling the classroom management piece. Even IF you encounter a teaching experience with all kids with Asperger's, be advised that most of the kids have S&L, neurobiological issues and in some cases, cocurrent emotional disturbance.
To work in the field of education you must, and I mean must, be able to work and function in a team manner. If that is not your strength for any reason, then you will need to re consider some of your goals. These are tough jobs. Both private and public school units have demands that you will need to meet. On top of balancing all of the paperwork needs on time.
As to the lesson plans, first permit me to point out, that your mentor teacher in a placement is not your co-worker. She/he is your teacher. And if that party decides that you will write your own lesson plans for her/his review, then that is what you do.
Good luck with your plans but be prepared to change them. Education is going through huge changes at present and that factor will continue for the next ten years at least.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)First off, no offense, but I would hazard a guess I know a bit more about AS kids and schools for them than you do. Admittedly I have no clue what you background is, but I have been studying Asperger's now for about a decade (ever since I found out I have it) and have dozens of books on the subject from everyone from Luke Jackson to Tony Atwood to Barbara Kirby. I also have worked with dozens, perhaps even more than a hundred kids and adults on the autism spectrum between my various jobs and internships. I know I can work with them, because I have many many many times before (as well as ADHD students, learning disabled students, severely autistic students, and ID students). I also know of probably around 100 schools that were either designed for students with Asperger's Syndrome, or only accept students with Asperger's Syndrome. This is not that rare. Beyond that I know of many schools that have a program for just students with Asperger's and even have a friend who's son is in one at the high school level and another one who has a kid at the elementary school level (in 2 very different cities mind you). Once again this is not that rare.
I can work in a team manner, and I am not quite sure why you would think I can't. The only difficulty/complaint I have had in this regard so far is allegedly people get worried about my nonverbal communication (allegedly I project an aura of worriedness). Once again I must reinterate this, I see no difference here and someone who is deaf not communicating typically.
I also have turned in my lesson plans, so I am not quite sure where you are getting this complaint from. In my first placement I asked to see a sample lesson plan, which was denied, which I was a little bit upset about, but quickly moved on. In my second placement I did this just fine, and generally did it about 3 days before I needed to and 5 days before I had to teach them (wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much prep time at this position, she used it to test mostly so she needed it, but as I couldn't test, and watching someone else test is about as boring as watching paint dry, I had tons of time to prep).
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)perhaps you can proactively approach these people with a design of the teaching placement you seek and then present it to the University for approval.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)are well out of the jurisdiction of my university. I know of a couple people here and there in my jurisdiction, but they really don't want a student teacher of any kind (or so they say). I had the most luck with a teacher about 25 miles away who would have worked out decently, but the school district said no. Of course that could be a matter of timing.
Of course beyond that, there is the problem that without a lawsuit or appeal of some kind, the university won't let me student teach again.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)I didn't have an IEP at the high school level, but something has to exist to help protect adults with special needs from classroom/workplace discrimination, even if it is just at the training level.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)that convinces me that you are the victim of discrimination. Sure, you may have encountered some tough customers in your placements. Ok. What do you think you will encounter day by day, year by year in education?
The training level is about you learning from others who do the job. Sometimes those lessons are hard but it is important that you consider any and all points of view whether you have Asperger's or not. The job of the mentoring teacher is to highlight strengths and limitations that you present at the time of training. Sounds like you heard some tuff' stuff and while the delivery may not have been appropriate, if you feel that you need "protection" then you are likely to continue to feel frustrated. Unfortunately, in or out of education, people choose their words poorly.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)and therefore not allowed to learn anymore. I always work to improve on my struggles, but when I am condemned for stimming at the wrong times and not having the best nonverbal aura (neither of which I can really control, well I can control the stimming but it is sort of like controlling your blinking, takes all conscious thought to do it) I generally tend to get a bit upset about it. I still believe I have the ability to teach students, but as of the way things stand now, will pretty much legally never be allowed to (there aren't many schools willing to hire uncertified teachers).
For a comparison, if I was deaf but worked to speak, would I be condemned for sounding... let's just say different. I don't think the difference is that great. People accept deafness as a disability far more, and they accept what deaf people have to bring far more. I don't think it is fair that I can get kicked out of a profession, solely for being disabled. I also think it is wrong, that because of this we will have even more special education policy regarding autism by people who don't know what it is like to be autistic (of course being supported by token autistics), but that is a conversation for another date.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)What I can say is that Teachers of deaf children indeed are often deaf. Their ability to communicate effectively with their student, however, thru speech or thru sign is a critical skill. I disagree that people in or out of education accept deafness as a disability "far more". Disabling conditions are accepted or not usually to the extent that people in society feel they understand them and feel competent in dealing with them. Frankly, in my experience, deaf parents have expressed that kids with Learning Disabilities are accepted more. And people with children who have an emotional disturbance often express that their children should be accepted "far more".
I think that the difficulties each area of disability presents is sometimes so hard, that many parents or students feel alone in the struggle to some extent resulting in frustration and sorrow.
It sounds like you have a strong feeling about teaching, perhaps a different audience would serve you best.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)Perhaps first and foremost, it is just entering the scene. It hasn't had time to obtain mainstream acceptance, and admittedly it took other disabilities decades to achieve any kind of serious acceptance. The deaf movement for example started around the turn of the 20th century, but didn't really achieve much until ADA and even more recently "Deaf President Now".
Next, it is very easy to deny, especially with higher functioning autistics. While most people have no problem labeling a nonverbal child who is still in diapers as being autistic, when you can look and appear normal, for any amount of time, a lot of people (on both sides of the political spectrum) deny you have autism. This makes acceptance harder to get as you are being seen as just being *insert adjective here* and not truly disabled.
Lastly, because it does have that lower functioning side, and that is still what most think of when someone mentions autism, it is hard to say that a person with that exact same disability (especially as the term Asperger's is going byebye as of DSM-V) can be a teacher. What amazes me about this is how much this train of thought effects those hired to work with autistics.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)She is bright and capable but really struggled with classroom management. She just didn't have the ability to be as flexible as a classroom teacher needs to be. She wanted her kids to have a very time specific regimented routine and that's just not practical for young children. They are going to have days where they are off their routine. She needed a routine to be at HER best but not all days are like that in an elementary classroom. She just couldn't deal with it. Fortunately we had a wonderful principal and a good district mentoring program and she was encouraged to find a different teaching position that was a better fit for her. She became an ESL teacher who works in a resource room. It's a perfect job for her and she is one of the better ESL/resource teachers I have worked with.
Classroom management is critical for special ed. It goes way beyond understanding the children and the nature of their disabilities. You need to be on top of every aspect of that classroom at all times. You need to be an expert at customer service to deal with parents, many of whom are frustrated and yes, also disabled like their children. That's very hard for a lot of good teachers.
I have had many student teachers and the ones who struggled with classroom management were the ones I encouraged to not become special ed teachers.
We all don't find the perfect fit teaching position when we are in college. I wanted to be a high school teacher. I was advised to go into elementary education instead. It really hurt my feelings at the time but if I could go back and thank that adviser who told me to not teach high school, I would. He was right.
I honestly believe that everyone who really wants to teach can find that good fit. And every teaching experience, whether it's positive or not, is a valuable learning experience that shapes the teacher you will eventually become.
Good luck to you.
On edit - I deliberately didn't answer your question because I don't believe that filing a complaint of discrimination is a good way to start a teaching career. I'm not a lawyer so I can't say if you have a case or not. But I think you'd have a hard time finding a job with a lawsuit or complaint on your resume. No that is not fair and may even be illegal, but put yourself in the place of the HR director who has to decide whether to hire you. Just something to think about.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)The university won't let me anymore. Basically with them it is 2 strikes and you are out. Beyond that they really don't care what we want or who we are, or even care enough to find out. If you request a specific teacher, they MIGHT try to get you placed with that teacher, short of that, it is person A to classroom A, etc. As long as the district is verging on being right, they don't care. Admittedly, the second time they did try, but when their one attempt to find me a decent placement failed, they ignored the situation for 2 months, then placed me at the last second with the one teacher who was willing to take on a student teacher at the last second.
Even in the first placement, I rarely struggled with classroom management. It was really just every now and then in the class with 23 students and usually 1 para (which even the experienced teacher sometimes struggled with this class, who wouldn't?). Anytime I had to help a student with something, the other students would see this as cause to revolt. It was just a bad placement all around. The second time when I was placed in a resource room I never once had problems with classroom management. Of course that was about the easiest classroom to manage I could expect.
I wouldn't mind all this so much, if the students weren't learning and showing their progress. If that is what I failed at, I could see being removed from the program. But when I failed at being social with my coworkers and not stimming, I have a problem with that.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Especially today, with the increased focus on data and testing, teachers work in teams developing lessons and analyzing data. So yes, being social is important.
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)At any time we were talking about important stuff (say IEP meetings or the like) I was told to be quiet, and the one thing I ever received a failing grade on (week 2 mind you) was due to me not being quiet during a parent-teacher conference. I was being criticized for not talking right during breaks when the teachers were talking about their kids or their weekend plans. The rest of the time I did as I was told and kept my mouth shut. Of course then there is the issue with stimming during meetings, but honestly, I just can't help that.
doomcupcake
(4 posts)Did you disclose to your university that you have been diagnosed with Asperger's? If so, and they were unable or unwilling to accommodate your needs, you may have an ADA case. You will not, however, have an IDEA case, as IDEA is only applicable to grades K -12. After completing high school, the protections can fall under ADA or Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. After HS though, disclosure of disabilities is completely voluntary. If you didn't disclose and seek assistance from the disabilities services office, you might be out of luck. Your best bet may be to do a consultation with an attorney versed in disability rights and take it from there.
ETA: BTW, bookmark wrightslaw - there's an entire section on disability rights in college and the workplace. It's also useful to have on hand as a special educator (I've been a HS special education teacher for 12 years and it's been invaluable to me).
aspieextrodinare
(82 posts)I did disclose with both my university and my cooperating teachers that I was autistic, and I did receive services from my disability services office (though admittedly it basically went as far as me using a computer to test).
doomcupcake
(4 posts)
elleng
(130,758 posts)and kind of happy my daughter, with learning differences of some kinds, who completed 4 out of 5 years toward SPED/Child Development degree, left college when she did. She's a born teacher, is working w some local kids, and tho she and her guy could use the money, I surely don't want her to go through all the bureaucratic and other crap involved in obtaining a degree and working in a school system with unreasonable expectations for teachers and students.
