do you think teachers need a dress code?

[demtenjeep]

personally I feel I dress fine for my classroom. I don't wear things too short and I do not fall out of the top.


Part of our wonderful new contract will include a teacher dress code.

I think that is over the top and do not need someone telling me how to dress.


Frankly, it pisses me the hell off

[murielm99]

1. Are they going to give you a clothing allowance?

If you have to change your style of dress, or add to your wardrobe to go to work, they should pay, or give you some type of voucher to allow you to take your clothing expenses as a tax deduction.

[elleng]

2. Each school should have its own, implicit, 'dress code,'

imo. As to 'contract,' a bit much, imo, but if the contract is truly 'wonderful,' then so what?

[Trillo]

3. Teaching the teachers how to lie, eh?

Off Topic you say? Nope. Putting on appearances is all the rage in our society, and with respect to dress, those appearances are lies if they are not what you normally would wear.

[mopinko]

4. you would hope not, but

my daughter's 7th grade math teacher was a barbie doll type who wore spike heels, tight sweaters, and low cut blouses all the time. repeat- 7th grade.

putting it in the contract seems extreme, but i would say they likely had a serious issue with this somewhere along the line.

[sulphurdunn]

50. I wish she worked

at my high school. I had a Spanish teacher like that in college. I didn't learn much Spanish, but my attendance that semester was perfect, and it showed in my other classes.

[Booster]

5. The company I worked for had a dress code & after years & years they did away with it.

Women started wearing cut-off short shorts and guys wore things I'm sure they wouldn't wear to cut the grass on their front lawn. Torn dirty t-shirts with shorts worn so low they showed their butt-cracks. I believe in dress codes simply because some people just don't have common sense. My dress code would be reasonable; no suits & ties, etc, but simple "use your head" stuff. I think it's important for teachers because they set an example for young minds. Flame me if you want.

[Goblinmonger]

11. Where did you work?

And do you seriously think that teachers would dress like that if there were no dress code? And if they did they wouldn't listen to their principal when they said the dress was inappropriate.

Teachers are professionals. Treat us as such.

[Booster]

12. For a major television network. In no way did I intend to put teachers down in my post. But in

job ever created there is always a few people who just don't get it, and some rules have to be created for those people are singled out and humiliated. It's like a guide to help.

[dballance]

6. It seems to me dress codes are the refuge of cowardly managers.

If an employee is dressing inappropriately in a manner that offends other employees or customers then sit them down and tell them to get their act together and dress appropriately. You can get decent polos, shirts and slacks or blouses and skirts at Target. You don't have to go break the bank at a high-end department store.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. Unfortunately, there are people in every profession who do need to be told how to dress.

While most professional people know what to wear without a dress code, there will be some who show up for work in clothing that is inappropriate and unacceptable. By implementing a dress code, these situations can be avoided.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. What's wrong with dealing with those people individually?

Good teachers don't penalize an entire class for the poor behavior of a few. But we get treated like children by the people we work for. Really pisses me off.

[Arkansas Granny]

16. Establishing a dress code isn't exactly penalizing an entire group of people. It sets standards

that most will already be meeting and it avoids the accusations that you are "picking on" an individual. I've worked at many places with a dress code and all it does is keep those persons who don't seem to know how to choose appropriate clothing from coming to work in something that is quite unsuitable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Teachers are professionals and should be treated as such

Do doctors have dress codes?

[Arkansas Granny]

19. And most teachers dress like the professionals that they are and a dress code would not affect

them or their choice of clothing, anyway. However, having had 4 children in the public school system from kindergarten through high school, I can tell you from experience that not every teacher dresses like a professional and perhaps some need written guidelines to adhere to.

[FBaggins]

21. Yes, doctors often have dress codes.

As do many professionals who work in view of the public and/or their clients.

[demtenjeep]

54. totally agree

it looks like the "dress code" isn't all that life changing tho. It still pisses me off that we have one however. I am a professional, I act, talk and dress like one, it is high time the board recognizes that we are!

[LeftTurnOnly]

8. No, but..

I think there should be restrictions. Not necessarily a code. I had a teacher when I was younger that consistantly dressed inappropriately. I definitely second the poster who said if they're going to do that, then have them pay or give a voucher. At one point, I attended a school with a dress code and I always found it to make more sense that if the school wanted us to wear certain clothes, they should pay for it.

[FBaggins]

9. Not "need" perhaps (for most)... but not a big deal.

Reportedly, the school board president says that, after taxes, the most common complaint she receives regards teachers dressing inappropriately.

I think that is over the top and do not need someone telling me how to dress.

I think it's ridiculous to have contracts that are so specific, but if something as simple as what time you can leave on the last day of school after all your work is done needs to be in the contract, then some basic guidelines for appropriate attire are no more nit-picky.

For the vast majority of teachers, I can't imagine that it will make any difference (they already dress appropriately).

[TBF]

10. As recently as 10 years ago I worked in law firms

that had dress codes and enforced them. Crazy ...

[noamnety]

13. I don't have a problem with a dress code.

Seems reasonable that teachers should have to follow the dress code that students follow. At our school that means no short shorts or mini skirts, no exposed bra straps, no halters, no exposed breast bits. No tees promoting drugs or alcohol. Other than that, it's pretty loose. Jeans are okay, shorts that are long enough are okay, etc.

We've only had a problem with younger women on staff - basically the facebook generation. I've seen that age of women on other forums I visit post up boob shots and stuff even though they are elementary teachers. Common sense isn't always there, sadly.

It puts all of us in an awkward position to try to enforce standards on the kids when the staff doesn't meet it. We had one day last year where the principal had to tell the staff we weren't enforcing the dress code for students that day because one of the teachers wore shorts that were so short she wasn't close to meeting the dress code.

We shouldn't need it in the contract because it is common sense, but if the teachers don't ALL demonstrate that common sense, it's smart to put the expectations in the contract. Is there something in particular in your dress code that you object to?

[LWolf]

14. As with most things, a dress code, if it exists at all,

should be liberal and broad. The more specific, the less appropriate.

I've worked with dress codes and without them.

In the last district I worked in the state to the south, our dress code included the word "professional," which is open to abuse and various interpretations. I chose to interpret "professional" as "appropriate for the activities I'll be doing." Since I regularly supervised recess, taught PE, did art projects, sat on the floor with groups of kids working on projects, and stood on chairs to put things up and take things down from the wall, "professional" meant clothes that were easily washed and dried at home, no $$ dry cleaner or time-consuming ironing, clothes that were not restrictive, allowing me full movement, clothes that fit properly, were in good repair, and modest. Our code specified that collars had to be worn, so I bought a bunch of vests that came with collars and big pockets. Then I could wear any kind of shirt I wanted under the vest. I don't wear ANYTHING to work that doesn't have an abundance of pockets. In that same district, females were "encouraged" to wear dresses and skirts, so I kept a selection of sleeveless jumpers, with big pockets and collars, and I usually wore sneakers and crew socks with the jumpers, so that I could move easily on any terrain during recess and PE. I had a parent who made the jumpers and vests for me in a variety of fabrics.

My current district has no dress code for teachers, and a pretty lax dress code for students. In 7 years, the only thing I've seen a teacher wear that bothered our administrator were the barefoot shoes, which didn't bother me a bit.

Currently, I don't wear dresses or skirts, rarely wear collars, and always wear orthopedic walking shoes and pockets. I have an entire collection of one easily washed short-sleeved cotton shirt with no collar and two breast pockets, in a rainbow of colors. It gets the job done.

[Starry Messenger]

20. I teach Ceramics.

I dress for durable, with a lab coat. If I had to wear office wear, it would be in shreds by the end of the day.

This seems like more paternalism to just show us who is in control and limit our professional autonomy.

[FBaggins]

22. I doubt that any dress code for teachers will require office attire.

The current dress code says that teachers will dress appropriately as defined by the teacher. Any replacement is far more likely to be proscriptive ("no flip flops... no tube tops... no short shorts&quot than prescriptive ("all male teachers will wear shirt and tie&quot

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I've actually seen that phrase in dress codes for teachers

My district went through a shoe phase. We were to wear professional shoes, and they were described as 'office attire'. If we had a medical need, we could provide a note from our doctor and wear tennis shoes. Even the PE teachers were required to bring notes from their doctors so they could wear tennis shoes. The shoe regulations also banned open toed shoes. So one of our principals set up a fuzzy slipper day as a fundraiser for United Way. It caught on in several district schools and literally hundreds of teachers wore fuzzy slippers to school. Within a week, the dress code was modified and there was no mention of shoes.

[LWolf]

25. I had the "open-toed shoes" thing, too.

They DIDN'T specifically outlaw athletic shoes, so that's what I wore most of the time. Plus, I kept a pair in my room for PE and recess if I wore pumps.

I also kept a selection of funny slippers; if I wore more uncomfortable "dress/office" shoes, I'd slip them off once in class and wear the slippers. The overwhelming favorite of my students were the ones with a granny face; big red lips, curly gray hair, glasses, etc..

[LWolf]

24. My response up-thread suggests differently.

More specifics about the dress code referred to: requiring collars, ties for men, including the word "professional," which meant that we were expected to dress in business/office attire, and were called in and warned when we didn't, specifically rejecting any shirt without a collar, jeans, etc..

[jpbollma]

26. I would think they should be required to dress business casual

like most office settings. Besides that, I wouldn't be overly picky. Just like an office, no tank tops, no short skirts, no t-shirts ect.

[FBaggins]

27. With the obvious exception of roles where to do so makes no sense.

The auto mecanics teacher needs to be able to wear something that can get oil on it. An art instructor shouldn't have to worry about paint on wingtips.

[LWolf]

28. I think we should be required to dress appropriately

for what we'll be doing. Classrooms aren't offices.

What we do is not restricted to sitting at a desk or lecturing at the front of the room.

I am on the field, in the grass, mud and snow. I am dealing with paint and other art materials. I am climbing up and down to put up and take down displays. I am crawling around on the floor and standing on tables to check cables and connections.

I prefer to wear clothes that can go in the washer and dryer, that don't require expensive dry cleaning. Since I'm always carrying pens, pencils, and dry erase markers around, there are inevitable marks on the clothing. I usually relegate ink-stained or paint stained or grass stained clothing to wearing at home for home and ranch chores. I don't mind replacing marked clothing for work, but I'm not made of money. So, what I choose for the classroom has to work in other settings as well, and it has to be cheap.

I am on my feet most of the day, and going up and down 2 flights of concrete stairs to get from the gym, office, cafeteria, library, lab, etc. from my room and back. I wear orthopedic walking shoes, which are more appropriate to the job than office shoes.

Since classrooms aren't offices, I'll point out that ours aren't air conditioned. Being upstairs, getting the afternoon sun through plate glass windows, spring and fall it can be sweltering in there. Fabrics that hide sweat are good. Fabrics that breathe are, too.

I expect my clothing to be clean, in good repair, to fit appropriately, to be easily washed, and to be safe and comfortable.

I also consider it necessary to model expected dress for students, so if it isn't okay in the student dress code, I don't wear it.

That means t-shirts are fine; so are tank tops if the straps are two fingers wide and no bra is showing. I don't wear tanks, but I wouldn't hesitate if I wanted to. I don't wear skirts, since I spend time on the floor and on the tables, but if I did, I'd make sure they were always longer than my fingertips at my side, which is what the student dress code calls for.

[FBaggins]

30. Two of the last three points seem like a perfect dress code to me.

I expect my clothing to be clean, in good repair, to fit appropriately, to be easily washed, and to be safe and comfortable.

I also consider it necessary to model expected dress for students, so if it isn't okay in the student dress code, I don't wear it.

[LWolf]

38. Seems good to me, too.

The only thing missing is "appropriate for all activity conducted during the day."

[FBaggins]

40. Even without that...

...the student dress code should certainly cover it. I couldn't wear a swimsuit to school... but I could when I was swimming.

[Starry Messenger]

48. Well, the school I teach at has never had to issue one.

We all know how to dress.

I think individual problems, should they arise, be taken up individually and dealt with. But I know from vast experience with Admins of all kinds of spheres (not just education) that they love to make regulations to make everyone feel the heat when only one person is a problem.

I'm lucky my current school has a collegial atmosphere with the administration, so this kind of bs is almost non-existent.

[HiPointDem]

29. it's just to show you you're not a professional, you're just a walmart peon like everyone else.

[FBaggins]

31. Are you under the impression that professionals don't have dress codes?

That simply isn't so.

In fact, it's often called "professional attire" for a reason.

They're talking about a dress code... not uniforms (though of course some professionals have that as well).

[HiPointDem]

32. no, cube rats have a dress code.

[FBaggins]

33. Cube rats ALSO have a dress code.

But professionals most certainly do as well.

Are you saying that the lawyers at a big law firm wear flip flops and tank tops while the staff wears suits? Or engineers compared to their support staff?

The only exception I can think of (apart from points of obvious differences in environment) is the doctor/nurse divide. In some cases, nurses are the employee of the hospital (and subject to their dress code) while doctors are independent and might set their own standards.

[HiPointDem]

34. i'm saying professionals are expected to know how to dress and not to require formalized

"dress codes". sanctions are exerted through peer/professional pressure, not by referring to some paper "code".

i've never worked in a professional setting where there was a formal dress code. that's for proles.

[FBaggins]

35. Then perhaps you're the one who isn't a professional?

I'm in my fourth decade in a professional environment and there has always been a written dress code (that includes senior employees). My position involves working with professionals in scores of other companies in other professional industries... and again I can't think of one that didn't have a written dress code.

The dividing line between an explicit dress code and "figure it out for yourself" has never been whether or not the position was "professional" vs. "cube rat" (though I point out that over the last couple decades, more and more professionals work in cubes)... the dividing line has been the size of the company, the number of employees, and whether or not they are customer-facing.

This is driven by the simple fact that there are people in professional roles who are not professional in their appearance. In a small company (or if you are your own boss), there is no need for a written policy. In a larger organization, they are almost essential.

I've been to more than one SHRM conference and I assure you that there have often been discussions re: whether or not a particular style of clothing should be in/out... I have never seen a company that said "our coworkers are professionals... so we don't have such a policy" - IOW, what the policy should/can say... not whether or not there should be one.

[HiPointDem]

36. what are "professional industries"? the professions aren't "industries" -- that used to be one

division between professionals and "employees of industries".

of course as more and more is privatized and corporatized, that line becomes increasingly obsolete and the professions, as marx predicted, are proletariatized.

ergo "dress codes".

which are written by management for employees, by administration for underlings, by superiors for inferiors, by capital for the proles.

'professional' used to mean you were your own boss or one among equals. apparently that older meaning has disappeared and it now just means 'degreed prole'.

[FBaggins]

37. That explains the gap

"Professional" has never meant "you are your own boss". In general it refers to a person holding a position that requires specialized knowledge/education (as distinguished from training).

With some exceptions, if you can hire a reasonably intelligent person of the street and train her to do the job, it probably isn't a professional position. If you (usually) need an advanced degree in a specific field in order hold the position, it probably is.

The pharmacist is a professional whether he owns her own pharmacy or works for a chain. The attorney is a professional whether she has her own firm or works for law firm or works as an in-house attorney for a firm in another industry.

The one who works for a company is no less a professional because of the company's dress code. The sole proprietor doesn't have one because she doesn't need one. If she isn't dressing much the same way, she won't be in business for long (as she demonstrates daily the difference between the noun and the adjective - she is a professional who is not professional).

On edit - regardless of whether you accept that definition or not, your post requires us to revisit the OP. What you're saying is that you don't consider teachers to be professionals... right?

[HiPointDem]

39. uh, yes, it did.

[FBaggins]

41. Can you describe the professional settings in which you've worked?

And who "expected" you to dress properly?

I'm sensitive to privacy concerns, so I certainly don't mean to pry. But can you give us an idea of the types of settings you're referring to?

And then could you get around to answering the last question in the prior post?

[HiPointDem]

42. you first.

[FBaggins]

43. Already done.

Obviously medium-large corporations in the training/professional-dev/HRM segments

[HiPointDem]

44. oh, the training dept of a medium sized corp. not a professional, just an educated employee.

not within the traditional meaning of professional.

[FBaggins]

45. Dodging?

It's a circular argument to create your own definition for "professional" (that most certainly is not the "traditional meaning&quot ... and then use it as an ad-hominem attack.

Professional does not now mean (nor has it ever meant) "self employed". The vast majority of professionals receive a paycheck from a company. You can't fantasize that away.

I'm beginning to think you've owned your own one-man lawn mowing company since junior-high and just feel better about yourself calling everyone else names while pretending it makes you a professional.


Once again - you're posting in the education group of a progressive board. Do you or do you not believe that teachers are professionals?

[HiPointDem]

46. dodging what? it's not my own definition, it's the traditional meaning. "the professions" were

originally the independent clergy, lawyers, and doctors.

1) learned; 2) self-regulating; 3) independent.

that is the origin of the term.

other "professions" came under that umbrella to the extent they shared the same characteristics.

not employees of corporations.

[FBaggins]

47. Dodging what? You think others can't tell?

You presented your own personal experience as evidence for your argument. You've been asked three times what that experience was... and you've dodged (even after a friendly jab).

You've been asked three times whether or not you consider teachers to be professionals. Your statements certainly imply that you think they aren't... but you dodge the straight question.

Feel free to actually answer at any time.

originally the independent clergy, lawyers, and doctors.

Bull. You deceptively added "independent" because the actual list is self-contradictory with the standard that you've invented to describe it. There were no "independent clergy" in the 15th century. The clergy were not self-regulating and they were not independent.

The actual reason clergy,lawyers, and doctors were the only three was because those were the only ones that required extensive additional formal education. (from "professors" no less). Other "professions" came under the umbrella to the extent they share that characteristic...

...regardless of whether or not they work for someone else. A lawyer does not cease to be a professional when she goes to work at the EPA and a physician does not cease to be a professional when he joins a hospital staff.

[HiPointDem]

49. i wasn't talking about the 15th century. your claim that most professionals are paid by

corporations = most educated workers are paid by corporations.

they aren't independent, they aren't autonomous, they don't set the standards of their "profession" -- all that is handed down to them from on high. they pay dues to belong to a "professional organization" which tells them what to do & how to think and is composed of highly paid careerists connected to capital, whose dictates they enact.

corporate "professionals" are technicians and wage slaves. not professionals.


As recently as 2005, more than two-thirds of medical practices were physician-owned — a share that had been relatively constant for many years, the Medical Group Management Association says. But within three years, that share dropped below 50 percent, and analysts say the slide has continued.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/health/policy/26docs.html/?pagewanted=all

The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honoured and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage labourers.

[2on2u]

51. Maybe just the illegal aliens do, other than that....

[roody]

52. Yes I do and I am a teacher!

I disagree with teaching in shorts and a t-shirt. It happens in my district. I also believe that the flip flops that many female teachers wear are a safety hazard.

[lutefisk]

53. No, it's insulting...nt

[demtenjeep]

55. I agree

it is insulting!

[RobertAustin]

56. No, we don't need more insults.

I know how to dress myself. So do other teachers. Dress codes for teachers are just one more way to insult teachers, but it gets far worse. Many administrators use anything they can, including unethical and illegal acts, to bully, harass, and intimidate teachers at every opportunity. Terrorized teachers, of course, cannot effectively teach. This "dress code" thing is simply one part of a much larger problem: a nationwide army of mostly-incompetent, overpaid, often-abusive administrators, who teach no one, and interfere with the wirk of those of us who do.

To do something about this problem, we are petitioning Congress to cut their pay with federal legislation, tying the proposed administrative salary cap to average teacher pay. If you agree with this petition, please sign our petition, and pass it on to others. It's time to fight back against all forms of teacher abuse. You may find the details here: http://www.change.org/petitions/the-c-a-p-education-reform-proposal-save-america-s-schools-by-cutting-administrators-pay-with-federal-legislation