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Fri Nov 4, 2016, 07:00 PM

Safe new storage method could be key to future of hydrogen-powered vehicles

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-10-20-safe-new-storage-method-could-be-key-future-hydrogen-powered-vehicles
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Safe new storage method could be key to future of hydrogen-powered vehicles[/font]

20 Oct 2016

[font size=4]Hydrogen is often described as the fuel of the future, particularly when applied to hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles. One of the main obstacles facing this technology – a potential solution to future sustainable transport – has been the lack of a lightweight, safe on-board hydrogen storage material.[/font]

[font size=3]A major new discovery by scientists at the universities of Oxford, Cambridge and Cardiff in the UK, and the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST) in Saudi Arabia, has shown that hydrocarbon wax rapidly releases large amounts of hydrogen when activated with catalysts and microwaves.

This discovery of a potential safe storage method, reported in the Nature journal Scientific Reports, could pave the way for widespread adoption of hydrogen-fuelled cars.

Study co-author Professor Peter Edwards, who leads the KACST-Oxford Petrochemical Research Centre (KOPRC), a KACST Centre of Excellence in Petrochemicals at Oxford University, said: 'This discovery of a safe, efficient hydrogen storage and production material can open the door to the large-scale application of fuel cells in vehicles.'

Co-author Dr Tiancun Xiao, a senior research fellow at Oxford University, said: 'Our discovery – that hydrogen can be easily and instantly extracted from wax, a benign material that can be manufactured from sustainable processes – is a major step forward. Wax will not catch fire or contaminate the environment. It is also safe for drivers and passengers.'

…[/font][/font]
http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/srep35315

11 replies, 1999 views

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Original post)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 08:07 AM

1. I've barely heard that issue raised. The obstacle is low round trip efficiency. nt

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Response to kristopher (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 01:07 PM

2. That’s the obstacle in your mind

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1127105947#post5
[font size=4]5. Teslas catch fire at a rate way lower than gas cars[/font]

[font size=3]And when the inevitable Chevy Hindenburg hydrogen conflagration happens I wonder how much hydrogen shills will talk about fires then.[/font]


The “Hindenburg” seems to come up rather frequently.

As for “round trip efficiency,” honestly, that doesn’t seem to concern as many people.

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 01:18 PM

3. Round trip efficiency is the stake in the heart of hydrogen storage. nt

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Response to kristopher (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 01:45 PM

4. In your opinion, yes…

Using your logic, battery-powered vehicles should be outselling gasoline-powered vehicles, and should have been for the last hundred years. However, consumers have other considerations.

Check out this list of “Challenges”:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fcv_benefits.shtml
… Several challenges must be overcome before FCVs will be a successful, competitive alternative for consumers.

Vehicle Cost

Getting Hydrogen to Consumers

Fuel Cell Durability and Reliability

Public Education


Your focus is simply not where the consumer’s is.

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 02:28 PM

5. That isn't my "logic" at all; it's your own personal bit of confusion.

I'm constantly amazed at the weird things people string together and label "logic". It's as if the entire world disappears from their mind except for the tiny little itty bitty belief they're trying to preserve.

Yes, those are all issues that negatively impact the acceptance of hydrogen with the public. But the points with policy planners are the huge additional amount of clean generating infrastructure it would require together with need for a massive duplicative new distribution system.
Pre-lithium batteries it held it's own as an option, but the battery chemistries that are now extant and in the pipeline have completely changed the landscape and hydrogen is, at best, a niche technology for the foreseeable future.

Even Toyota is acknowledging reality.
Warming to lithium-ion, Toyota charges up its battery options


...While rivals including Tesla Motors and Nissan Motor Co began adopting lithium-ion battery technology nearly a decade ago, Toyota has largely held back due to concerns over cost, size and safety.

...Having Toyota endorse lithium-ion will be a fillip for the developing technology, and gives the automaker the option to produce for an all-electric passenger car market which it has avoided, preferring to put its heft behind hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles (FCVs).

Toyota says its Prius Prime, a soon-to-be-launched plug-in electric version of the world's top-selling gasoline hybrid, will use lithium-ion batteries, with enough energy to make the car go around 60 kms (37.3 miles) when fully charged before the gasoline engine kicks in. Because of different methodology in measuring a car's electric mode range, the Prime's 60 km range will be listed in the United States as around 25 miles (40.2 kms).

<snip>

While Toyota sees FCVs as the ultimate 'green' car, the United States and China are encouraging automakers to make more all-electric battery cars as they push alternative energy strategies. <snort>


more at: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-batteries-idUSKBN12U0ZH

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Response to kristopher (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 03:10 PM

6. You’ve either intentionally misrepresented the story, or misunderstood it



Lithium-ion batteries can be unstable and have been blamed for incendiary Samsung smartphones and smoking Dreamliner airplanes.



"We have double braced and triple braced our battery pack to make sure they're fail-safe ... It's all about safety, safety, safety," he told Reuters.

Toyota has mainly used the more mature nickel-metal hydride batteries to power the motor in the conventional Prius, widely regarded as the forefather of the 'green' car, though it did use some lithium-ion batteries from 2009 in its first plug-in hybrid Prius, around the time the first all-electric cars powered by lithium-ion batteries - such as the Tesla Roadster and Nissan Leaf - came on to the mass market.

Toyota's confidence in its battery's safety and stability comes from improved control technology that precisely monitors the temperature and condition of each of the 95 cells in its new battery pack.


(Today’s Mirai also uses NiMH cells.)

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 04:43 PM

8. Toyota is (finally) rolling out a series hybrid like the Volt.

They're years behind the times, but the direction of the market towards lithium+ is clear and they are following.

Hydrogen is only one thing - a nonstarter.

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Response to kristopher (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 09:25 PM

10. This is simply the 2nd generation of the one they introduced in 2012

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Response to OKIsItJustMe (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 06:57 PM

9. Battery fanatics have tried to paint Toyota's latest move into lithium

as if they are going to abandon fuel cell vehicles.

NOTHING could be further from the truth. But cult members are resestant to anything that goes against their "beliefs".

Toyota to produce battery electric vehicles - fuel cell hydrogen cars still alive

Fully electric cars (BEV) to be developed, but at the moment small short distance transport envisaged.

Toyota still indicates that for heavy transport and long distance personal transport, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCV) favoured.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4018696-toyota-produce-battery-electric-vehicles-fuel-cell-hydrogen-cars-still-alive

Toyota's approach to environmental technology
Making eco-cars that lead the way to tomorrow
http://www.toyota-global.com/innovation/environmental_technology/strategy_environmental_tech.html



A Cult member types the following:

Toyota is (finally) rolling out a series hybrid like the Volt.

They're years behind the times, but the direction of the market towards lithium+ is clear and they are following.

Hydrogen is only one thing - a nonstarter.


Observe- the cult member claims Toyota is "behind the times" ROFL

They PIONEERED today's electric cars. They aren't following anyone - they are true leaders. Then, the cult member goes on to call H2 "a nonstarter".

That's big news to Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes.

I really don't understand at all this hatred of fuel cells from battery cult members. Fuel cell advocates are for anything that will help break the fossil fuel addiction. Battery Cultists hate hydrogen and fuel cells and many of them want the tech to be suppressed and disappear. THEY CAN"T HANDLE COMPETETION! Maybe it's just that simple.

Who cares anyway. Japan and Germany are so far out in front of this tech the US will probably never catch up. We can all (partly) thank Steven Chu and Obama for that because of what they did in 2009.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 09:32 PM

11. There’s nothing new here, aside from an improved/safer battery

Their road map hasn’t changed.

http://www.hybridcars.com/prius-family-which-one-is-right-for-me-49996
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Prius Family: Which One Is Right For Me?[/font]

by Philippe Crowe | December 14, 2012



[font size=3]Toyota’s Prius is very often among the first to be thought of when one considers purchasing a hybrid car. This is not too surprising as Toyota created the hybrid segment when launching the original Prius 12 years ago.

Since then, Prius grew from being a model to becoming a family of models and turned into a sub-brand under the Toyota umbrella.

Today, Toyota offers three hybrid vehicles under the Prius name: the subcompact Prius c introduced in 2012; the third generation of the original, which Toyota has begun calling the Prius Liftback; and the tall wagon Prius v, also introduced as a 2012 model year product.

A fourth Prius, we will come back to in another article is the Prius Plug-In, a variation on the Liftback which can be plugged into a household electrical outlet for the batteries to be charged.

…[/font][/font]


Maybe this time, the Prius PHV will sell more than a handful of cars…
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

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Response to kristopher (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 5, 2016, 03:57 PM

7. Delivering fireworks in a hydrogen-fuelled Toyota Mirai

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/top-gear-magazine/delivering-fireworks-hydrogen-fuelled-toyota-mirai#1
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Delivering fireworks in a hydrogen-fuelled Toyota Mirai[/font]

[font size=4]Bonfire night special: time to prove Hydrogen tech is safe. Without getting our fingers burnt[/font]

Paul Horrell | 5 Nov 2016

[font size=3]Mention you’re driving a hydrogen-fuelled car, and you can see it on people’s faces. Their eyes narrow, their forehead furrows, and their lips silently form the phrase “Hindenburg disaster”. Or “hydrogen bomb”. That the hydrogen-fuelled car could be a safe and clean journey to the future is, to put it mildly, a difficult sell. Top Gear decides to face the matter head-on. You want explosive? We’ll give you explosive. Let’s take the Toyota Mirai and stuff its hydrogen-filled backside with fireworks, then drive down the motorway, replenish its tank to 10,000psi, then proceed into the capital to deliver the fireworks to a bonfire-night display.





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