I need some help with choosing between the least worst energy sources in my new house.

[northoftheborder]

I am building a new home, and faced with the gas versus electricity choice in my cooktop, heating system, water heater, dryer.

My personal preference for cooking is gas, and I don't really like the slick glass electric tops (I would fret over scratching it with my heavy cast iron pans). My architect said that if I choose to run a gas line into the Kitchen I should run it to the other appliances as well, I suppose for efficiency. However, my dryer is electric and has been running for 28 years without one breakdown, and a previous gas dryer was always having something going wrong with the starter. I've also had both electric and gas heating systems in different houses, and am ambivalent about either. (I'm going to be buying new washer & dryer.)

At some point, when solar becomes more efficient and cheaper I may add that to the roof, but that would likely not address anything more than lighting.

The cost of electricity used to be cheaper, then gas was cheaper, now don't know.

So, there are the issues of personal preference, cost, and the environmental degradations of either. I despise what fracking for gas is doing to our environment, but the electric companies are using gas to make electricity.

So, where can I go to do research on the environmental effects, costs, etc.. and I'm open to any knowledge or opinions this group might have.

[Frustratedlady]

1. If you go with gas (which would be my preference)

with a convection oven, make sure you have a big enough supply line. My daughter got an expensive gas stove but said she didn't think it was heating right. After notifying the store about the problem, they determined the supply of gas wasn't high enough and that they'd have to get a larger line. (I hope I'm explaining that right.) When they inquired about a larger line, that wasn't possible because of some other problem. Maybe the feeder line from the street. Bad memory. Anyway, make sure to ask about that when you pick your stove.

I have never been able to cook on an electric stove.

[corkhead]

2. Geothermal is the way to go. I have had one for 15 years and have never regretted it,

I have "pump and dump" but wished I had invested in the more expensive "closed loop"

I bought a 500 gallon propane tank, and was using it for water heat, dryer, stove, backup heat (gas fireplace), and my outdoor grill. I have since switched to electric water heat and glass top electric stove, without a noticeable change in the electric bill, but far less use of propane. I have to get it filled about every 3 years or so.

I didn't think I would like the electric stove because I had always cooked with gas, but I have learn to actually appreciate it. My old Revereware pans would wobble, but I replaced them with stainless pots and pans that have thick bottoms and I am happy with that. I retired my cast iron, except for my Le Cruset.

I am convinced the water heater is more efficient. it is preheated by the furnace and I think the power vent sucked a lot of heat out of the house and used a fair amount of electricity on its own.

hope that helps

[northoftheborder]

6. I want to research geothermal.

Would that be used for heating/AC only? The biggest use of electricity in this climate is for Air Conditioning - 9-10 months of the year. I'm not really clear about how the geothermal works, exactly.

I had ruled out a fireplace, wood or gas, because they are used so seldom here, just a waste of money. Maybe an outdoor porch wood stove or gas firepit, but don't know if budget will allow.

[corkhead]

8. I'm in Michigan and the ground water is 48 degrees year-round. AC works great

and that is when the water heater pre-heat is at its best.

Geothermal is more expensive, but there is a relatively quick ROI and there are tax rebates for them I believe.

[corkhead]

12. Its basically a "heat pump" that uses a compressor and freon (like a refrigerator)

it pushes heat into the water where it dissipates in the ground. In the winter, it does the opposite and extracts what heat there is out of the water. It raises the water temp about 15 degrees in the summer and lowers it about the same in the winter, which is fine when you are starting with 48 degree water.

[MH1]

21. I have geothermal hvac and the ac works GREAT.

I think in a warmer climate it would be even more of a win.

Definitely go with closed loop geothermal if you can. It will most likely be more energy efficient than anything you can do. My system is also very quiet. I am always hearing my neighbor's compressor running but I guarantee they never hear mine.

If you are allowed to choose your electricity supplier you can be even greener by buying all renewable (wind + solar). It will be more expensive for now but if you can afford it your conscience will feel better.

Natural gas used to be considered 'clean' but now a lot is coming from fracking, which is evil.

[tama]

17. Yup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump

And you can combine that with solar, wind and bio. And most importantly, conservation.

[wercal]

3. I don't like the gas dryer

I don't know if statistics bear this out or not; but, I'd be worried about all that lint flying around and open flames. I know an electric dryer is an energy hog; and, it costs more to operate than gas....but I just fear the gas dryer.

Also, I've replaced the heating element on my electric dryer twice...a very easy process. I have a suspicion that if an igniter failed, or the heat exchanger cracked on a gas appliance, it would not be nearly as easy.

[corkhead]

4. I love gas dryers. The are a lot faster; 30+ years, and I haven't burned my house down yet.

[bloomington-lib]

16. I use a drying rack over a register.

Dries the clothes in a couple of hours in the winter, plus adds humidity to the house. Might as well not waste the heat used to warm the house.

I do have an electric dryer though, for those occasions where I can't wait.

[wercal]

19. That's a good idea.

[rightsideout]

5. Consider solar!

If you are having a house built and considering solar, make sure you have a roof facing south or close to it. Also make sure the house is away from tall trees, if the positioning of the house allows it.

I have a 5.8 kW solar system on my home and it produces 60 percent of the electricity we use. There are days and weeks where we produce more solar then we use and that excess electricity gets fed back into the grid for the neighbors to use. Most of them don't even know their homes are partly powered by solar when we are overproducing. LOL.

The quickest solar payback is solar hot water. If you are going with natural gas a solar hot water system will decrease your gas bill by helping to keep the water hot so you are using less gas.

There are also those on demand gas heaters which turn on as you use hot water. Those are more efficient. I don't have one but that's what I've heard.

The solar will be more efficient if your new home well insulated. That includes making sure the ceiling space the attic covers is well sealed. Make sure all the pipes, ducting, wiring etc coming through the attic is sealed around the holes to keep air from escaping through. Your attic acts like a stove pipe sucking up air through all the holes which increases your energy bill. So make sure everything is properly insulated when the house is built.

Also consider installing larger windows on the south side of the home. The windows could provide extra heat in the winter time by allowing more sun to come in. I have friends that have rigged up electrically powered blinds that adjust to sunlight as it streams in through their south facing windows. A bit over the top but it works.

Also consider LED or Cold Cathode Flourescent (sp?) lighting.

[northoftheborder]

11. thanks for advice. We are already planning for the correct alignment of the house for sunlight and.

...shade, as well as the insulation and caulking being the first thing to do.

I am definitely planning on providing for rainwater runoff providing all landscaping needs, and wish I could afford a whole house system of rainwater storage and use. I will consider the solar, but that will have to be considered something to eliminate if I go over my budget. My architect is providing the necessary hook-up line access for that, if I do that later. I think that solar technology is definitely improving every day. And congress did leave in the alternative energy tax break, I think, which is positive.

[physioex]

13. I might be hated for this....

But I think the on demand water heaters are a waste of money compared to traditional gas. I priced out the cost and installation of the two, and there is simply no way to make up for the extra expense for an on demand considering natural gas usage. Also there is not much advantage to having an on demand when it comes to the resale of the house.

[hunter]

23. The advantage is the hot water doesn't run out when you have a lot of guests.

The disadvantage, especially if you have teenagers, is that nobody fears using up all the hot water before mom or dad take a shower.

I think replacing our tank type gas water heater with an on-demand gas water heater doubled the amount of hot water our kids used.

[physioex]

24. Nothing wrong with that....

A home should be about what works for you, and I have considered those issues as well. I have the original 50gal contractor grade water heater for seventeen years no problem, but I priced out Bradford-White on the internet and they make a couple of different versions to fit my home. The first is a drop in replacement with 50 gal 42,000 BTU and the second a 48gal (smaller volume) with a 50,000 BTU burner slightly more expensive. I couldn't go wrong picking either since they both have more BTUs than my current 38,000 BTU and much better turn around time (50K being the best). So yea, it wouldn't be as good as a on demand, but it would be as close as possible.

[physioex]

7. I think gas is the best way to go.....

It produces instant heat and uses overall much less energy than an electric stove. If you are into cooking you would notice that a professional chefs only cook on gas stoves. An electric stove uses energy produced in a coal fired plant which is at best 30% efficient (haven't looked up an figures) then transferred through electric lines which lose energy and is again used to produce heat. Doesn't make much sense if you consider the amount of waste. I was worried a gas stove might be unsafe if the fire where to go out while the gas is not, but my concerns quickly went away when the model I purchased had automatic re-ignition. We splurged a little on the stove and bought an American made brand called Bluestar open burner stove, and we are simply in love with this stove, I found a great deal by purchasing it online on Abe's of Maine, or you can also check out AJ Madison.

Disclaimer: I have no relations to any of the brands I mentioned.

Edit: Make your life a lot easier in the future, and wire you stove and dryer area with a 120v, 220v, and gas connection. This way you or the next owner can revert to the appliance of their choice.

[MADem]

9. You could run the gas to the dryer area, and not use it--if you change your mind later you can

switch. It would also be a nice resale touch if you need to sell down the road.

I have gas heat/dryer/cooker. I like the fact that I can cook on the stove when the damn power goes out, which happens infrequently but often enough to notice (a couple of times a year, say).

I keep the heat down and wear a sweater, to the extent that I can!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

10. Ignore your architect....

If you really prefer gas for cooking, then by all means run a line to your stove. I grew up with a gas stove...and as an adult had gas in my second house. I found I preferred electric. I have a slick glass range now and it's is the second one I've owned. Keep the top clean (very easy) and the bottom of your cast iron pots clean and you'll have no problem with scratching.

The new electric water heaters etc. are very efficient and you don't have to deal with pilot lights. I've lived with gas for heating the house, that's good...but I don't think I would want to deal with a slew of pilot lights and absolutely not with a gas dryer.

I was the general contractor when we built our last house in FL... my architect was not very good about practical things like gas v electric appliances although he designed us a magnificent house. I would think running gas lines all over the kitchen, into the laundry room and to one or more hot water heaters would cost considerably more than running the wiring necessary.

Here's a link that discusses cooktops...Google anything else you want to know...

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/kitchen-ranges/buying-guide.htm

[Fumesucker]

14. I have an induction cooktop that's amazing, I've had standard electric, natural gas and propane

I like the induction better than all of them, it's fast, clean and safer than either gas or electric and definitely more efficient than a standard electric.

The only thing that gets hot is the cooking pan, you can fry bacon in the pan and put your hand right on the cooktop as soon as it's done and it's just warm to the touch. Also there is a temperature control, the cooktop measures the temp of the pan and maintains it at a steady reading, mine will do from 100 degrees to 450 or so in 40 degree increments (I've never turned it all the way up so I don't remember how high it will go).

A heat pump water heater might be something worth looking into also, they are several times as efficient as a standard electric.

[GP6971]

15. For cooking, a combination

I have a gas stovetop and electric ovens. I just found electric ovens maintain consistent temperature

On dryers, have had both and prefer electric. Not so with hot eater heaters.....prefer gas

One thing nice about gas stove tops and water heaters....you have a source of heat and hot water during power outages. Tie that in with my double sided gas fireplace and I'm in relatively good shape for at least a couple of days

[madokie]

28. Hot eater heaters, say that a few time real fast :-)

Peace

ETA: "On dryers, have had both and prefer electric. Not so with hot eater heaters.....prefer gas "

[Demeter]

18. Insulate, Insulate Insulate!!

I'm in Michigan.

A passive solar house will keep you comfy, especially if an attached sun room/greenhouse provides winter humidification. Heating is the first expense. A pellet stove might cover the times when passive solar doesn't make it, at least expense and mess.

Electricity is second. If you can do any of the renewables, go for it. Wind, photo-voltaic, hydro (if you have running water). A 28 year old electric dryer is not something to treasure. It WILL break. Mine did. Probably just as old, too. Gas is cheaper, always has been always will be.

Hot water is third. I wouldn't really try to do it solar. Not enough sun in Michigan winters.

Cooking is a minimal cost issue. I agree, if you want gas, make everything gas.

[NoOneMan]

20. Why care?

1) Our goose is likely cooked

2) The very act of building a home is likely more energy intensive than swapping up an existing, less-efficient one.

[roody]

22. Now is the time to pit in a solar array

if you have a sunny spot. Check out the tax credits and rebates. My array is elevan years old and I barely pay anything for electric. Have electric dryer.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. High velocity washing machines get the water out.

that means your dryer doesn't need to run as long to get things dry. Old washers used to spin at 200-300rpm. The newer high efficiency standards washing machines (front loading) spin over 1200rpm. They really get the water out.

so if you're worried about an older dryer eating too much power, Maybe invest in the newer washer, and set the dryer to a shorter, cooler heat cycle. Net result could be more energy savings over going out and getting a new gas dryer, if you have an older washing machine that leaves more water in the clothes.

[geckosfeet]

26. New dryers (gas or electric) are far more energy efficient than 20 year old models.

Since you will have electricity in every room, have them put in a 220 line for an electric dryer.

Gas heat is far less expensive than electric - at least in central MA. Not sure where you are but I suspect gas will be the cheaper option for heat.

[trof]

27. How about a 'graywater' system?

Using sink/shower/tub drain water for irrigation and toilet flushing.
Saves money and cuts total water usage.
If I were building a house I'd want that.

Also solar for hot water is relatively inexpensive.
I've had a system that backs up my electric water heater for several years.
Just have a 4' X 10' panel on the roof that feeds an 80 gallon holding tank.
If the tank temp is 120 degrees or higher, the electric heater doesn't even turn on.

Good luck.