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drokhole

(1,230 posts)
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:02 PM Mar 2013

Fighting the growing deserts, with livestock: Allan Savory at TED2013 (*STUNNING RESULTS*)

Savory gave this talk at the TED2013 conference and they just put the video up (one of the most important talks at the entire conference, in my opinion):


(the entire video deserves to be watched, but the changes come in around 15:00)

Here's the article:



Fighting the growing deserts, with livestock: Allan Savory at TED2013

Allan Savory has dedicated his life to studying management of grasslands. And if that doesn’t sound exciting, just wait, because it touches on the deepest roots of climate change and the future of the planet.

“The most massive, tsunami, perfect storm is bearing down on us,” is the grim beginning to Savory’s talk. This storm is the result of rising population, of land that is turning to desert, and, of course, climate change. Savory is also unsure of the belief that new technology will solve all of the problems. He agrees that only tech will create alternatives to fossil fuels, but that’s not the only thing causing climate change."
-------
So what can they do? “There is only one option left to climatologists and scientists. That is to do the unthinkable: to use livestock, bunched and moving, as a proxy for the herds.” Those herds mulch it down, leaving both the trampled grass and their dung. The grass is then free to grow without having damaged with fire.
------
The results are stunning. For location after location he shows two comparison photos, one using his technique, one not. The difference is, “a profound change,” and he’s not kidding — in some cases the locations are unrecognizable (in one case the audience gasped). Not only is the land greener, crop yields are increasing. For example, in Patagonia, an expanding desert, they put 25,000 sheep into one flock. They found an extraordinary 50% improvement in production of land in the first year.

(more at link)


Here's a short video describing the essentials of Holistic Pasture Management:



And here's an old thread of mine that goes into more detail (featuring farmer Joel Salatin):

To Kick Climate Change, Replace Corn With Pastured Beef
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fighting the growing deserts, with livestock: Allan Savory at TED2013 (*STUNNING RESULTS*) (Original Post) drokhole Mar 2013 OP
Skeptic checking in here.. Permanut Mar 2013 #1
Please watch the video first... drokhole Mar 2013 #2
Point taken.. Permanut Mar 2013 #3
Actually, it's a lot easier than you think... drokhole Mar 2013 #5
I have heard that from organic farmers in Northern California BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #6
Pretty much like that farmer in NoCal! drokhole Mar 2013 #8
Thanks drokhole BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #11
Will do! drokhole Mar 2013 #13
I have been working on doing this Tumbulu Mar 2013 #7
Thank you so much for your efforts! drokhole Mar 2013 #9
Thanks so much- I did not think Tumbulu Mar 2013 #10
Kudos to you! BrotherIvan Mar 2013 #12
fascinating and highly rec'd. posint to facebook too. lots of yummy sheep for lions so plenty to go msongs Mar 2013 #4
Found some of the before-and-afters that are featured in the video... drokhole Mar 2013 #14

Permanut

(5,561 posts)
1. Skeptic checking in here..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:27 PM
Mar 2013

After seeing numerous attempts to manipulate the ecosystem here and there on the planet, I'm wary that this could be done carefully enough. Humans have caused a lot of damage by trying to correct or manage nature, to wit:

The Indian mongoose was introduced in Hawaii in the 1880's to "control" rats. Turns out rats are active at night, the mongoose more so during the day. Oops.

Denzel and Nancy Ferguson described in a book called Sacred Cows at the Public Trough (1984), how when ranchers turn their herds loose in open country, the first thing the cows do is head for the nearest stream and trample it and poop in it.

Maybe I'm just an old skeptic, and I'm delighted to see efforts being made to mitigate the effects of human population, but Murphy's law may apply here.

drokhole

(1,230 posts)
2. Please watch the video first...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:30 PM
Mar 2013

Because it has nothing to do with turning "their herds loose in open country." Savory addresses this (mismanagement) specifically.

Permanut

(5,561 posts)
3. Point taken..
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:40 PM
Mar 2013

I'm addressing the proposal starting at around 12:00, and captioned in the Op to "do the unthinkable: to use livestock, bunched and moving, as a proxy for the herds.”

To "use livestock" implies careful management, absolute control of the animals and their movements, continuously, no breaks, 24/7. My citation of the Ferguson book was by way of illustrating what happens without that absolute control.

drokhole

(1,230 posts)
5. Actually, it's a lot easier than you think...
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:57 PM
Mar 2013

They cordon off a block of land (generally called a "paddock&quot with lightweight, portable, and minimal electric fencing, and let the livestock do their thing for hours, until moving them to the next paddock. That's it. It's "controlled," but not absolute control. They might move them once or twice a day. But, while they're grazing, it's completely "hands off." The electric fencing keeps them in and predators out. The most work comes in the planning - in terms of deciding how to mark off the paddocks and how long to let the paddocks rebound before the herds graze there again.

There's a farm near me that does it (where I get my eggs, meat, and milk from), and they can't sing its praises enough (they also happen to be one of the only farms whose land thrived during last summer's drought).

Edit to add:

Another look at it -

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
6. I have heard that from organic farmers in Northern California
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 09:46 PM
Mar 2013

Can you tell us more about the farm where you get your eggs and milk from? (I'm not sure if you can read envy through the internet, but what I wouldn't give to easy access to great milk and eggs from a healthy farm.)

I met a farmer when I lived in NoCal who had built rolling chicken coops and a system for allowing his sheep and cows to graze in his fields. The chickens ate the bugs so no need for pesticides and the sheep and cows provided the manure and helped to work alfalfa grown in fallow fields to enrich the soil. It was basically self-sustaining except for water and seed. He was working with other small farmers to enact the same practices.

And that is why I am not an advocate of monocrop farming. Animal husbandry is part of farming and cannot be taken out of it without adding in loads of fertilizers, pesticides and petrochemicals.

I look forward to watching this video. Thanks for sharing.

drokhole

(1,230 posts)
8. Pretty much like that farmer in NoCal!
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:40 PM
Mar 2013

I live in Wisconsin, and they're located about 40 minutes away. They follow Salatin's methods almost to a T (they are huge fans of his). They have a fairly large amount of land (can't remember the acreage) that they are able to cordon off in squarish paddocks with step-in polyposts and polywire. Looks something like this:



The cattle are moved about once a day (so, two paddocks in total), and they bring in the chickens about three days later (using the "egg-mobile&quot to scratch through the manure and eat the grubs (which also helps spread it out and work it into the soil). They also have turkeys, and just last year they added sheep to the mix. No pesticides, no herbicides, no fertilizers, purely grass-fed. I think they said the only thing they add to the soil is some sort of calcium amendment, and the chickens might get extra organic feed.

In order to shop at the farm-store, you have to buy a membership. A whopping $10 one-time fee and $1 per year after that! And the only reason for that was some legal hurdle.

Anyway, late last year (Fall), all members were invited on a farm tour. The land/grass was thick and absolutely stunning! I can't remember the variety of grasses (it included stuff like clover and alfalfa), but there was quite a few. Salatin calls it a "salad-bar." And - while land mines of crap were abound - I gotta say (as someone else did on the tour), it didn't smell at all! That's what Salatin calls "black gold." Thing is, there are farms around there that let their cows graze but don't use that method, and their land looks anemic in comparison (I actually pass them on my drive to the farm). They have huge swaths of bare dirt, with a few patches of grass here and there.

As far as the milk and eggs go, it really is beyond compare. The eggs are hands-down the best I've ever tasted. The yolks are a deep, rich orange and taste better than candy. And the milk, health benefits aside, is full-fat, creamy, and flat-out delicious. It's also cheaper than "organic" milk from the grocery store.

Not sure if it will help, but I found them through this website:

http://www.eatwild.com/products/index.html

Also, this:

"And that is why I am not an advocate of monocrop farming. Animal husbandry is part of farming and cannot be taken out of it without adding in loads of fertilizers, pesticides and petrochemicals."

Perfectly stated!

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
11. Thanks drokhole
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 12:30 PM
Mar 2013

Now I am incredibly jealous! Their farm store sounds amazing. And I do get pastured eggs and raw milk whenever I can. I live in Southern California and while we don't have as many farms doing dairy and eggs as up north, it can be found at a high premium. Wish it was more accessible.

And I am a believer in full fat milk products in general and raw milk in particular. After reading Pottenger's Cats, there was no way I was going back. All that marketing for skim milk is so they can sell an inferior product they normally threw away or fed to the pigs. They keep all the good stuff for themselves and sell you a carton of puss and water. Ew!

I love and support small farmers who are thinking out of the box and trying new methods and reviving old ones. The article on the Indian farmers increasing their yields not by GMOs or new chemicals, but a new method of planting is also extremely hopeful.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/122816112

So tell your farmer he or she has got a huge fan out here in California!

drokhole

(1,230 posts)
13. Will do!
Thu Mar 7, 2013, 12:36 PM
Mar 2013

Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2013, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Heading up there Friday for a refill.

And thanks for the great input. Totally agree on the full-fat front! If you haven't seen them yet, you might enjoy these two lectures (one is an hour long and the other is roughly two hours - so, they're a bit lengthy, but well worth the watch):

How Bad Science and Big Business Created the Obesity Epidemic



The Oiling of America


I will have to check out that Pottenger's Cats book. I read one called Deep Nutrition that had a similar effect on me.

Great article there on the Indian farmers, it really is amazing what some ingenuity and working with Nature's integrated systems can do! I hope it catches on.

Tumbulu

(6,268 posts)
7. I have been working on doing this
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:18 PM
Mar 2013

With my sheep for three years now. It is hard and I want more permanent fencing and easier to move electric fencing. But the difference even my beginning efforts have made are phenomenal. I am a big believer in this approach and the USDA NRCS is helping a lot of us with tech support and encouragement and help with fencing costs. The improvement in the soil is profound. The increase in plant diversity and water holding capacity is worth the effort.

drokhole

(1,230 posts)
9. Thank you so much for your efforts!
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 10:46 PM
Mar 2013

I didn't mean to imply that it was easy-breezy work, just that it didn't involve complete micro-management. Can't express how much I admire what you're doing. If you haven't seen it, this was a great documentary from people like you who made the switch:



And I'm glad to hear you're getting help from the USDA NRCS, I just wish this was the stuff that was majorly subsidized!

Tumbulu

(6,268 posts)
10. Thanks so much- I did not think
Wed Mar 6, 2013, 01:34 AM
Mar 2013

That you were implying that it was easy. I am sort of old and not some weightlifter by hobby person, so sometimes it is harder for me than others. But, if I am able to do it, anyone can. What I see is that we begin to follow the program and then we see the phenomenal improvements in our soils and then we REALLY get excited and put in more fencing and get more intensive and more productive. It really is catching on here in N CA. The NRCS people have put on workshops and they have helped me and others so much. And they do help with fencing costs which really is appreciated.

Anyway, I like to think that together with my sheep we will have made topsoil.

msongs

(67,361 posts)
4. fascinating and highly rec'd. posint to facebook too. lots of yummy sheep for lions so plenty to go
Tue Mar 5, 2013, 08:50 PM
Mar 2013

around

drokhole

(1,230 posts)
14. Found some of the before-and-afters that are featured in the video...
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 09:37 PM
Mar 2013
http://planet-tech.com/blog/land-restoration-holistic-management

Las Pilas Ranch, Chihuahuan Desert Region, Mexico




Zimbabwe, Range Restoration




Zimbabwe, Paddock Site Restoration




Namibia

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