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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Thu May 15, 2014, 04:23 PM May 2014

100% of California in severe to exceptional drought

I believe the current status is that Southern California is on fire.

Record May heat sent temperatures soaring above 100° in much of Southern California on Wednesday, and fierce Santa Ana winds fanned fires that scorched at least 9,000 acres in San Diego County, forcing thousands to evacuate. For the second consecutive day, the Los Angeles Airport set a record for the hottest May temperature since record keeping began in 1944. Wednesday's 96° beat the record set on Tuesday of 93°. Other all-time May record heat was recorded at Camarillo (102°) and Oxnard (102°) on Wednesday. In Downtown Los Angeles, the mercury hit 99° on Wednesday, falling short of the all-time May record is 103° set on May 25, 1896. More record heat is forecast on Thursday, and hot offshore Santa Ana winds will bring extreme fire danger.

100% of California in severe to exceptional drought
Today's U.S. Drought Monitor report showed grim news for California: 100% of the state is now in severe or higher drought, up from 96% the previous week. Though just 25% of California is classified as being in the highest level of drought, "Exceptional", Erin McCarthy at the Wall Street Journal estimates that farms comprising 53% of California's $44.7 billion market value lie in the Exceptional drought area. Averaged state-wide, the Palmer Drought Severity Index during April 2014 was the second worst on record, behind 1977. For the 12-month period ending in April, drought conditions in California for 2013 - 2014 were also the second most severe on record, slightly below the 2008 - 2009 drought. To break the drought, most of the state needs 9 - 15" or precipitation to fall in one month. This amounts to more than a half-year's worth of precipitation for most of the state.

California's rainy season is over
The California October through April rainy season is now over. Between October 2013 and April 2014, the state received 10.44" of precipitation, which is just 51% of average for the period, and the third lowest such total on record. Going back to 1895, the record low mark was set in 1976 - 1977, when the state got just 34% of its average rainy season precipitation. California typically receives less than 10% of its annual precipitation between May and September, and the coming hot and dry summer in combination with a severely depleted Sierra snowpack will cause a severe fire season and significant agricultural damages. The fifth and final snow survey of the season on May 1 found that the statewide snowpack’s water content--which normally provides about a third of the water for California’s farms and cities--was only 18% of average for the date. Already, the 2014 drought has cost the state at least $3.6 billion in agricultural damages, the California Farm Water Coalition estimates. CAL FIRE recently announced it had hired 125 additional firefighters to help address the increased fire threat due to drought conditions.

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2679


Figure 3. The May 13, 2014 U.S. Drought Monitor showed 100% of California in severe or higher drought, with 25% of the state in the highest level of drought, "Exceptional." Image credit: U.S. Drought Monitor.
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100% of California in severe to exceptional drought (Original Post) phantom power May 2014 OP
the answer nationalize the fed May 2014 #1
You really think there are fewer than four in the US? FBaggins May 2014 #2
I should have said SEAWATER nationalize the fed May 2014 #3
It wouldn't have made much of a difference. FBaggins May 2014 #4
Bullshit. Your youtube is from the main lobbying group FOR the Carlsbad desal plant. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #5

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
1. the answer
Thu May 15, 2014, 05:08 PM
May 2014

When CA gets busy building more desalination plants there will be no more drought.

there are between 15 and 20,000 desalination plants around the world. In the US there are less than 4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#Existing_facilities_and_facilities_under_construction



At 5:16 Scott Jenkins, PHD Scripps Oceanographer says:

"The environmental effects of desalination plants have been studied for more than 20 years. In fact today thousands of these plants are operating all over the world providing scientists with a vast body of data which has confirmed that these plants do not harm the marine environment"


Desalination myths:

Myth: The desalination facility may harm marine life.

Fact: The Huntington Beach Desalination Facility is environmentally safe. Dr. Scott Jenkins and Dr. Jeffery Graham of Scripps Institution of Oceanography conclude that “the science has demonstrated the effects of the desalination facility on the marine environment are benign, and in principle, no different than the effects of natural evaporation.”

Myth: Desalination uses a lot of energy and is more expensive than importing water to make this a viable facility.

Fact: It takes the same amount of energy to produce enough desalinated water for a family’s needs for a year as it does to run a refrigerator for a year. With the cost of imported supplies from Northern California increasing and the reduction in our allotment from the Colorado River, desalinated water is competitively priced with any new high quality water supply. “Improving technology, however, means that desalinated water gradually will become cheaper, and at the same time, reduced allocations of Colorado River water and higher energy rates will drive up imported water costs. Prices are expected to intersect in about a decade,” said Kevin P. Hunt, general manager at the Municipal Water District Orange County (Orange County Register, April 4, 2005).
http://hbfreshwater.com/desalination-101/desalination-myths


Desalination= Fresh Water and Jobs. A twofer

Get Busy California

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
2. You really think there are fewer than four in the US?
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:17 PM
May 2014

There are far more than that. Thousands of them in fact.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
3. I should have said SEAWATER
Thu May 15, 2014, 06:53 PM
May 2014
There are far more than that. Thousands of them in fact.


Link?

Existing facilities and facilities under construction

United States

Texas

There are a dozen different desalination projects in the State of Texas, both for desalinating groundwater and desalinating seawater from the Gulf of Mexico.

El Paso: Brackish groundwater has been treated at the El Paso, Texas, plant since around 2004. It produces 27,500,000 US gallons (104,000,000 l; 22,900,000 imp gal) of fresh water daily (about 25% of total freshwater deliveries) by reverse osmosis. The plant’s water cost — largely representing the cost of energy — is about 2.1 times higher than ordinary groundwater production. On average, the plant produces 3.5 million gallons per day (about 11 acre-feet) at an average production cost of $489 per acre-foot.

(The Texas paragraph doesn't provide details of the "dozen different desalination projects".)

California

California has 17 desalination plants in the works, either partially constructed or through exploration and planning phases.[138] The list of locations includes Bay Point, in the Delta, Redwood City, seven in the Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay, Cambria, Oceaneo, Redondo Beach, Huntington Beach, Dana Point, Camp Pendleton, Oceanside and Carlsbad.
Carlsbad: The United States' largest desalination plant is being constructed by Poseidon Resources and is expected to go online 2016.[139] It is expected to produce 50 million gallons a day to 110,000 customers in San Diego County at an estimated cost of $1b.

Concord: Planned to open in 2020, producing 20 million gallons a day.
Monterey County: Sand City, two miles north of Monterey, with a population of 334, is the only city in California completely supplied with water from a desalination plant.

Santa Barbara: The Charles Meyer Desalination Facility was constructed in Santa Barbara, California, in 1991–92 as a temporary emergency water supply in response to severe drought. While it has a high operating cost, the facility only needs to operate infrequently, allowing Santa Barbara to use its other supplies more extensively.

(The Santa Barbara plant is not currently operating.)

Florida

As of 2012, South Florida has 33 brackish and two seawater desalination plants operating with seven brackish water plants under construction. The brackish and seawater desalination plants have the capacity to produce 245 million gallons of potable water per day.

Arizona

Yuma: The desalination plant in Yuma, Arizona, was constructed under authority of the Federal Colorado River Basin Salinity Control Act of 1974 to treat saline agricultural return flows from the Wellton-Mohawk Irrigation and Drainage District into the Colorado River. The treated water is intended for inclusion in water deliveries to Mexico, thereby keeping a like amount of freshwater in Lake Mead, Arizona and Nevada. Construction of the plant was completed in 1992, and it has operated on two occasions since then. The plant has been maintained, but largely not operated due to sufficient freshwater supplies from the upper Colorado River. An agreement was reached in April 2010 between the Southern Nevada Water Authority, the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, the Central Arizona Project, and the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation to underwrite the cost of running the plant in a year-long pilot project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#United_States


How many SEAWATER desalination plants do you count in the above summary?

If you want to credit Texas with 12 (where are they and are they seawater desal?), then there are 12 +4 or 5 -(depending on whether you count plants not currently operating) SEAWATER desal plants.

Not "thousands"


FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
4. It wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Thu May 15, 2014, 07:14 PM
May 2014
How many SEAWATER desalination plants do you count in the above summary?

Why do I need to rely on the above summary? It's a Wikipedia entry that you for some reason assume represents all US desalination.

http://www.pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/desalination_report3.pdf

Here's a report that's almost a decade old. You'll note (page 21) that there were over 2,000 plants of at least 300,000 gal/d capacity in 2005. It's surely grown since then since we're reportedly the 4th largest market globally for new equipment sales

Yes... many of them are in brackish areas rather than straight seawater... but that hardly matters.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. Bullshit. Your youtube is from the main lobbying group FOR the Carlsbad desal plant.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:18 PM
Nov 2014

I was on the Carlsbad desal site twice today. It's really funny watching truckers with trailers negotiate where there isn't really room.

You're really out of your league. Again.

Do you even know how much energy it takes to desalinate water? Do you know the impact on the grid, the increase in GHG production for your pie in the sky idealized world of hydrogen claptrap and desalination fakery?

Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot -- roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources.

And its price tag is at least four times the cost of obtaining "new water" from conservation methods -- such as paying farmers to install drip irrigation, or providing rebates for homeowners to rip out lawns or buy water-efficient toilets.

"We look out and see a vast ocean. It seems obvious," said Heather Cooley, water director for the Pacific Institute, a nonprofit research organization in Oakland. "But it's cost prohibitive for most places in California."

In Carlsbad, two gallons of seawater will be needed to produce each gallon of drinking water. And to remove the salt, the plant will use an enormous amount of energy -- about 38 megawatts, enough to power 28,500 homes -- to force 100 million gallons of seawater a day through a series of filters. The process, known as reverse osmosis, removes salt and other impurities by blasting the water at six times the pressure of a fire hose through membranes with microscopic holes.


Truth: San Diego is overpopulated, can't survive on native water, sucks water from other places, it's needs to be scaled back, water meters installed everywhere, rate increases and conservation, grey water and rainwater catchment written into the building code.

There. I fixed it.
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