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nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 04:44 AM Mar 2016

The house that provides its own energy

Swissinfo.ch Mar 28, 2016

Construction is nearly complete on an innovative, multi-family house in canton Zurich that can collect and store enough solar power to fulfil the energy needs of its tenants.

The project has been aptly named “The House of the Future”, and it is claimed to be the world’s first energy self-sufficient apartment block. The dwelling is being built in Brütten, and by springtime it will be ready to house nine families...snip

...The engineering company behind the project estimates that only one hour of sunlight will be sufficient to power the entire building for 24 hours.

To ensure that surplus energy is available during bad weather days, a power-to-gas plant, which converts solar energy into hydrogen, has been integrated into the house. When insufficient energy is produced from sunlight alone, a fuel cell will use the hydrogen to generate the needed electricity.
Read More: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/sustainable-living_the-house-that-provides-its-own-energy/41918896



In der Schweiz Wasserstoff ist #1
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The house that provides its own energy (Original Post) nationalize the fed Mar 2016 OP
Great! polly7 Mar 2016 #1
Interesting. Haven't heard anything about fuel cells for a long time. Lodestar Mar 2016 #2
They aren't. kristopher Mar 2016 #3
Panasonic Ene-farm residential fuel cells nationalize the fed Mar 2016 #8
I'm paying attention - they aren't feasible. kristopher Mar 2016 #9
interesting Locrian Mar 2016 #4
Yup. I doubt it's electric heating... Helen Borg Mar 2016 #5
Super insulation with high efficiency air exchange system that captures heat from exhaust. kristopher Mar 2016 #6
I would have to see the numbers to believe this dumbcat Mar 2016 #7

polly7

(20,582 posts)
1. Great!
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 04:50 AM
Mar 2016
With construction costs being only 10% more and the rent 'reasonable by Swiss standards', it sounds excellent.

Lodestar

(2,388 posts)
2. Interesting. Haven't heard anything about fuel cells for a long time.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 04:53 AM
Mar 2016

I assumed they were not feasible, particularly for residential use.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
8. Panasonic Ene-farm residential fuel cells
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 05:30 PM
Mar 2016

As of January 2015, Tokyo Gas Co., Ltd., Toho Gas Co., Ltd., Saibu Gas Co., Ltd., Shizuoka Gas Co., Ltd., Keiyo Gas Co., Ltd., Osaka Gas Co., Ltd., Hokkaido Gas Co., Ltd. Hiroshima Gas Co., Ltd., Odawara Gas Co., Ltd., Oita Gas Co., Ltd., Okayama Gas Co., Ltd., Daiwa Gas, Tobu Gas, Yamaguchi Godo Gas, Tokai Gas, Shikoku Gas and the Gas Bureau of the City of Sendai have adopted the Panasonic household fuel cell (ENE FARM) and are promoting its installation and adoption in households. We have shipped a total of approx. 52,000 units.

Panasonic has developed a fuel cell unit with a built-in function for continuing to generate power during blackouts. Furthermore, to ensure flexible installation in various locations, we developed an integrated type whose backup boiler is built into the hot water storage unit, where the unit depth is maintained, in addition to the separate type where the backup boiler is separated from the hot water storage unit. Together with conventional household fuel cells for condominiums, we will expand product lineups to ensure flexibility for our customers' various installation conditions, and thereby further promote the spread of household fuel cells.

Panasonic's 2015 household fuel cell (ENE FARM) models to be released in April 2015 maintain a 95.0% (LHV)*1 rated total efficiency, but the recommended price is approx. 300,000 yen* lower than FY2013 models by reconfiguring the power generating stack, simplifying the system and reducing the number of components (by approx.15%).
The fuel cell unit with a built-in function for continuing to generate power during blackouts does not require any additional device installation space or work. The price of the function for continuing to generate power during blackouts is approx. 60,000 yen* less than the separate optional device...more
http://panasonic.co.jp/ap/FC/en_doc03_00.html



Ene-Farms Use Hydrogen to Power Homes but Don't Come Cheap
Bloomberg Business

Since commercial sales began in 2009, more than 100,000 Japanese households have installed generators that use hydrogen. That’s a long way from where the government wants to be. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has set a goal of 5.3 million hydrogen-powered homes, roughly 10 percent of Japan’s total, by 2030. “The use of hydrogen can contribute to saving energy, tackling environmental issues, and increasing energy security,” says Chihiro Tobe, head of the office promoting fuel cells at the Ministry of Economy, Trade, and Industry. On Dec. 27, Abe’s cabinet endorsed legislation that would cover as much as 350,000 yen ($2,970) per home ene-farm purchase, according to the newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun. The subsidy, however, is less than in previous years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-15/fuel-cells-for-homes-japanese-companies-pitch-clean-energy



World's First "Ene-Farm" Home Fuel Cell for Condominiums to Be Released
http://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2013/10/en131021-5/en131021-5.html

Panasonic reduces size and price of “Ene-Farm” home fuel cell
http://www.gizmag.com/ene-farm-home-fuel-cell-panasonic/25856/

People that say they aren't feasible haven't been paying attention.

Japan, Korea and Germany are leading the Fuel Cell tech segment. Toshiba just opened a Hydrogen R&D center in Tokyo- expect major new developments




Toshiba Hydrogen R&D Center, Tokyo

The 2020 Tokyo Olympics will feature Hydrogen.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
9. I'm paying attention - they aren't feasible.
Wed Mar 30, 2016, 12:14 AM
Mar 2016

They are an economic nonstarter. You see, some of us actually understand how the LDP government and the electric utilities in Japan are virtually a single entity. We know that they are trying desperately to restart their nuclear program - thereby the push for home fuel cells which are antithetical to a renewable system focused on the way inefficiencies such as fuel cells impact the design of the larger system.
So sure, if you want a centralized system built around nuclear power then fuel cells are eventually going to come down in price enough to make them feasible. But if you are looking at the way they triple the amount of renewable generation that needs to be deployed compared to battery storage, then you are probably going to conclude that they are Not Feasible.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
6. Super insulation with high efficiency air exchange system that captures heat from exhaust.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 08:00 AM
Mar 2016

Normal activities are usually sufficient to provide most of the heat.

At least, I assume thats what it is. You're probably familiar with the 'netzero energy home'.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
7. I would have to see the numbers to believe this
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 12:51 PM
Mar 2016
...The engineering company behind the project estimates that only one hour of sunlight will be sufficient to power the entire building for 24 hours.


I'd like to see their assumed daily energy load breakdown.
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