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marmar

(77,064 posts)
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 11:55 PM Mar 2015

China's Hydrogen-Powered Future Starts in Trams, Not Cars





(Bloomberg) The sleek, orange locomotive that made its debut this month in Qingdao, China, resembles a high-speed bullet train, at least until it moves. But this new vehicle—a tram, not a train—tops out at about 43 miles per hour, a fraction of the 200mph speeds of Japan's Shinkansen trains.

In smog-choked China, however, speed's not as important as what the new tram leaves behind it: Its only emission is water. The tram, the first of its kind in the world, runs on hydrogen power via onboard fuel cells. Refueling takes just three minutes, after which a three-car tram capable of carrying as many as 380 passengers can run for about 62 miles.

There's an obvious problem facing the future of hydrogen-powered transit. Across China's vast expanse are only about 83 miles of tram tracks, laid out in just seven cities. Still, for the state-owned manufacturer behind the tram, Qingdao Sifang Co., there's reason for optimism. Chinese officials intend to bet big on the tram technology. Plans call for spending 200 billion yuan ($32 billion) over the next five years to increase tram tracks more than tenfold, to more than 1,200 miles, and to buy more trams, according to the Xinhua state news agency. Sifang also makes more traditional trams that connect to overhead cables or carry batteries.

One early adopter is Foshan, a city of 8 million in southern China's Guangdong province, where officials say construction of new tram lines could start later this year. Foshan is getting heavily into hydrogen transit. Last year the city invested $72 million in a plan with Sifang to manufacture the trams locally for nationwide distribution. The two sides also have agreed to create a national hydrogen-power research center. .................(more)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-25/china-s-hydrogen-powered-future-starts-in-trams-not-cars



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China's Hydrogen-Powered Future Starts in Trams, Not Cars (Original Post) marmar Mar 2015 OP
Hydrogen is usually made from Natural Gas, which is not a clean fuel. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #1
Coal fired blast furnaces create the rails. Warpy Mar 2015 #2
Solar to electricity makes far more sense than solar to hydrogen. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #3
Not for mass transit in China Warpy Mar 2015 #4
They have electrified rail, both 3rd rail and overhead pantograph. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #5
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. Hydrogen is usually made from Natural Gas, which is not a clean fuel.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 12:14 AM
Mar 2015

It's always misleading when they say the only emissions are water vapor.

While true at the point of use, it is not true at the point of production.

Hydrogen is not a source of energy; it is an energy carrier. And it takes more energy to create than it provides, in many cases.

It will only be as clean as the means of production, compression, transportation, etc.

I would think that electric rail would be more efficient and cleaner.

Warpy

(111,222 posts)
2. Coal fired blast furnaces create the rails.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 12:25 AM
Mar 2015

They don't need any more of that, thanks.

This is a neat compromise.

Now if they use solar energy to provide the hydrogen, good for them.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
3. Solar to electricity makes far more sense than solar to hydrogen.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 12:33 AM
Mar 2015

After all, the hydrogen has to be created by the solar electricity with an energy loss, then compressed, more loss, then delivered to the vehicle and converted back into electricity.

Very inefficient, just go with solar to electric to batteries to motors.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. They have electrified rail, both 3rd rail and overhead pantograph.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 01:11 AM
Mar 2015

What is the advantage with these low speed hydrogen trams over electrification?

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