Netanyahu: I Don't Want a Binational State, but We Need to Control All of the Territory...

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

truncated title

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.682374?date=1445899669786

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday that although he doesn't want a binational state, "at this time we need to control all of the territory for the foreseeable future."

MKs who took part in the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee meeting — where the prime minister spoke — told Haaretz that Netanyahu turned to the politicians and said, hinting at the anniversary of Yitzhak Rabin's assassination: "These days, there is talk about what would happen if this or that person would have remained. It's irrelevant; there are movements here of religion and Islam that have nothing to do with us." Netanyahu then turned to opposition MKs and said: "You think there is a magic wand here, but I disagree. I'm asked if we will forever live by the sword — yes."

Habayit Hayehudi MK Betzalel Smotrich asked Netanyahu: "Why do you even talk to (Palestinian President Mahmoud) Abbas? Why pull the world's leg?" Netanyahu responded by saying that Israel "is not talking to bin Laden or ISIS, but I will talk to whoever isn't calling for our destruction."

Netanyahu said that contrary to what many of his colleagues on the right are saying, he is ready for territorial concessions. He added, however, that the problem is that the other side is unwilling to go down that path. "Half of the Palestinians are ruled by extreme Islam that wants to destroy us; if there were elections tomorrow, Hamas would win."

What Netanyahu is arguing for is the continuation and preservation of Israeli apartheid over the Palestinian population.

That is just fucking sick. but there are some in I/P that agree with his proclamation.

[leveymg]

1. Hillary said the same a couple. months ago. Sympatico

[shira]

2. Either there's 2 states and peace....

....which is what every sane, clear-thinking person wants.

That's door #1. Here's door #2.....

Or there's 2 states after an Israeli withdrawal, more war, and deaths numbering in the 10's of thousands.

Why should anyone - anyone not living within an asylum - vote for door number 2?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. The two state solution is dead. Netanyahu doesn't want it and neither do you. Your posts prove it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=116372

Your posts, past and present, clearly call for colonization: which puts you at odds with a two state solution.

The two state solution is dead. Netanyahu doesn't want it and neither do you.

[shira]

4. You never supported the 2 state solution...

I support a peaceful 2-state solution, with the emphasis on peaceful. Either with land swaps, which solves the settlement issue - or with those settlements becoming part of Palestine, with Jews who decide to stay becoming Palestinian citizens. I personally think they'd be insane to stay, but they should have that choice.

The current events in Jerusalem show that 1-state cannot work. But you prefer that to any reasonable 2 state solution.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. "You never supported the 2 state solution..." Which shows you don't know how to read.

I have been for a 2-state solution, but it is untenable in the present Israeli climate; considering how may right wingers and settlers make up the present Israeli government/Parliament.

One state is the new reality. Israel made it a reality.

[shira]

7. So which 2-state solution should the Palestinians have accepted since 1947?

Riddle us that one.

[azurnoir]

10. Why is it that you feel Jews deserve RoR that includes the West Bank because of history yet deny

Palestinians that same right when it comes to Israel?

[shira]

15. Why do you feel 2 million Palestinians currently in Israel is fair....

....when no Jews should be allowed in both Gaza and the W.Bank?

[azurnoir]

18. ah so you reduce Israeli citizens to Palestinians

as of now no one is a citizen of a sovereign Palestinian state, when one exists the Jewish settlers residing in the West Bank should be given the option of Palestinian citizenship with the caveat that their presence does not include or permit the presence of Israeli military or government security forces of any kind, of course private security subject to Palestinian laws could be an option for settler security if needed and a whole new growth industry in Israel

[shira]

20. So you believe Jews should be given a choice to stay in the W.Bank.....

....in a 2-state solution, is that right? I think we agree, even given your caveats.

[Israeli]

14. Reality check shira .....

The Single-state Solution Is Already Here

Now, of all times, out of the fire and despair, we must start talking about the last way out: one Israeli state with equal rights for both Jews and Arabs.

Gideon Levy Oct 17, 2015

Here is irrefutable proof that the one-state solution should not even be considered: the bloodshed, hatred and fear currently washing over the country. Advocates of the two-state solution and, especially, those who seek no solution, those Israelis who saw the one-state solution as treason and heresy, are now proclaiming victory. “There, that’s what the binational state will look like,” they are saying. “It will be a bloody, endless civil war.”

The same intimidatory arguments that were used for years against the two-state solution (the “Auschwitz borders”) are now being enlisted against the one-state solution. Now, as then, everything is judged according to the contours of the current, depressing reality, and it doesn’t occur to anyone that another reality is possible.

The nationalists say, “An agreement will never be possible with those bloodthirsty people.” The center-left says, “There’s no way to live together.” The common denominator is racism, and the assumption that the hatred will last forever. To this we must add the arguments over the Jewish state’s sanctity and the end of the Zionist project. In short, one state means the end of the world.

And now to the facts. One state already exists here, and has done so for 48 years. The Green Line faded long ago; the settlements are in Israel, and Israel is also the settlers’ land. The fate of the two million Palestinians who live in the West Bank is decided by the government in Jerusalem and the defense establishment in Tel Aviv, not by Ramallah. Maj. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, the coordinator of government activities in the territories, is their ruler far more than Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is. They are clearly part of the binational state and have been its subjects, forcibly, for some three generations. This state has three regimes: democracy for the Jews; discrimination for the Israeli Arabs; and apartheid for the Palestinians. But everyone lives in one inseparable state.

The binational state that was born in 1967 is not democratic. In fact, it’s one of the worst states in the world, because of the military dictatorship it upholds in part of its territory – one of the most brutal, totalitarian regimes in existence today. It is also one of the most racist states, since it determines its residents’ rights based solely on their nationality. This is the one state that is washed in blood right now, and will continue to be washed in blood as long as it remains in its malicious, nondemocratic format.

Those who say the current bloodbath is proof that Arabs and Jews can’t live together base this on the current state of injustice. And they’re right. If Israel continues to be a state of iniquity, Jews and Arabs will never be able to live together in peace. But the growing few advocating the one-state solution are not thinking of this state – quite the opposite. They wish to undermine it and establish a different, more just and egalitarian regime. When that is established, the hatred and despair will most likely be forgotten.

One may not want to believe this, of course, but one must not deceive. You cannot deny the possibility of life together with arguments based on the existing conditions. Blood is being spilt because of the injustice, and stems from it. How can you rule out in advance the possibility that in a democratic, egalitarian state, different relations will be formed? There are quite a few historic precedents of hatred and horror that dissipated when the injustice dissipated.

We could go back to the two-state solution, of course. Not a bad idea, perhaps, but one that has been missed. Those who wanted a Jewish state should have implemented it while it was still possible. Those who set it on fire, deliberately or by doing nothing, must now look directly and honestly at the new reality: 600,000 settlers will not be evacuated. Without evacuation, there will not be two states. And without two states, only the one-state solution remains.

Now, of all times, out of the fire and despair, we must start talking about the last way out: equal rights for all. For Jews and Arabs. One state is already here, and has been for a long time. All it needs is to be just and do the right thing. Who’s against it? Why? And, most important, what’s the alternative?

Source : http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.680882

[shira]

16. Reality check is that Olmert's 2008 deal could be offered today....

These articles written by post-Zionist crackpots read like comic books.

[Israeli]

23. Offered by whom shira ?

yup ...thats us ...crackpots from comic books.

which does not answer ......

Now, of all times, out of the fire and despair, we must start talking about the last way out: equal rights for all. For Jews and Arabs. One state is already here, and has been for a long time. All it needs is to be just and do the right thing. Who’s against it? Why? And, most important, what’s the alternative?

[shira]

24. Same was said when Bibi was in power in the late 90's, then Barak was elected....

Same was also said when Sharon was in power a few years ago, then Olmert was elected.

Before all of that, the same was said when Shamir was in power - until Rabin was elected.

The 2 state solution is still an option.

[Israeli]

25. Reality check part 2....

Men behind Oslo Accord: There's no leadership fighting for the future

Reality has sloped steeply downill for Israel's left since the Oslo Accords and leaders who were then heroes of hope now see little light at the end of the tunnel.

Nechama Duek
Published: 10.26.15, 13:32 / Israel News

The results of the 2015 election, discourse on social media, and the recent wave of terror attacks, have dealt significant blows to Israel's left, which has already been bleeding from open wounds for many years.

More and more of those who support a two-state solution have moved into the camp of "there's no one to talk to" and there are even some who believe that the odds of launching negotiations with our neighbors in the next few years are decreasing. The basic idea of the parties on the left who maintain that there are partners we can talk to and if we just give up a little more things will fall into place, remains among just a few individuals and even they are having difficulty defending it.

Doctor Uri Savir, one of the architects of the Oslo Accords, who serves today as a co-founder of the Peres Center for Peace, is angry at the Israeli left.

"They made a mistake by giving up the fight against the right," he says. "Even during the time of the Oslo Accords, the energy in the streets was that the settlers had won and destroyed Rabin's legacy. The left came to protest at the square when the water was up to their necks and then what happened, happened.

"But it wasn't the left who destroyed Oslo, it was Bibi - on purpose. I didn't believe him for a moment when he said that he would make two states a reality. When will the left wake up again? Only after a lot of suffering or if a leader presents himself with security credentials. Until then, they sit in the living room on Fridays and gripe."

"We won't have better neighbors than the Palestinians. Once every two weeks I'm in Ramallah and I see a different reality there. A thick book could be written on all the mistakes they've made, but does that mean that we should have to live in a bi-national nation led by the right?

"There is someone to talk to. We just need to move past our internal despair and get rid of our love of occupying. If not, we are headed for a religious war."

Nissim Zvili, one of the past leaders of the left and the Labor Party that fought to change the paradigm that speaking to Arafat was forbidden, has already lost all hope.

"The concept of the left hasn't been destroyed, but the train has left the station. In my opinion, and I hope I'll be proven wrong, there's no longer any hope of realizing the concept of two states and we're headed, because of the indifference of the people and the left that just doesn't exist, for a bi-national state.

"Unfortunately, the option of two states also doesn't exist from the other side. I meet and speak with them and they also point to extremist sentiments that are getting stronger among them and have decided that in another two or three generations there will be a bi-national state here and then they'll get the right to vote and beat us."

"The heavy hand of the right will lead to a reality in which my grandchildren won't be able to live here. And that's not because the left has lost its way and not because of the right's pragmatism, but because there's no leadership that's fighting for the future. Bibi isn't Begin and Ya'alon isn't Ben-Gurion."

"The left today... are organized people that have been in wars, some of which they won and some of which they lost and at the moment they remain content with making judgments from the couch in the living room.

"The left, which has never been good at protesting, has also stopped fighting. The right is leading us, consciously or not, into a process that will delete Israel from the map. The messianic right and the extremist right have taken control of the Likud and in my opinion, by the end of the century Israel won't exist as the Jewish nation."

Ya'akov Peri, former head of the Shin Bet until just six months before Rabin's murder, believes that the two-state solution is in fact the only solution.

"But right-wing governments have managed to indoctrinate a growing part of the population with thoughts that there is no partner and that the other side doesn't want peace or compromise. The failure of all of the rounds of talks strengthened that belief within the right and the center that there is a partner problem."

"The prime minister claims to believe in a two-state solution, but doesn't mean it. I say: Stop talking about peace and start talking about agreements. We are six million Jews here and within 20 years we'll be a minority and we won't be able to continue controlling the area by force.

"That's why, at this time, there's no point in seeking a final agreement to divide the country, but rather to agreements on issues like the reconstruction of Gaza funded by the moderate Arab countries. Even if these agreements take 100 years, who cares? The point is to have hope here."

Source: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4715173,00.html

[King_David]

8. The real "wow" was :

Netanyahu said that contrary to what many of his colleagues on the right are saying, he is ready for territorial concessions. He added, however, that the problem is that the other side is unwilling to go down that path.

[Little Tich]

11. There are no doors - the two-state solution is dead, and Netanyahu killed it.

The only question is whether Palestinians will get their equal civil rights now or later, and how much it will cost for everyone involved...

[shira]

17. Why can't Olmert's deal be offered today? Riddle me that one. n/t

[Little Tich]

21. Perhaps Netanyahu ran out of bad jokes and napkins? n/t

[shira]

22. When you can answer that one for real, you might have a case....

...about the 2-state solution being dead, therefore it's 1-state, etc.

[oberliner]

6. Netanyahu: I am ready for territorial concessions

Could be an alternate headline for the same article.

[geek tragedy]

9. classic Bibi. "I'm willing to make territorial concessions

so long as we don't have to give up control over the territory."

[Little Tich]

12. Perhaps Netanyahu should define "territorial" and "concessions".

Or maybe not - It's not as if he's serious about it anyway...

[Little Tich]

13. Isn't that just the one-state solution while calling it something else? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

19. Yes, it's called an apartheid one state solution.