Netanyahu's five-pronged strategy to delay a two-state solution

[Jefferson23]

12/27/2015

A two-state Israeli-Palestinian solution seems further away today than ever. Yet, the Israeli prime minister’s office doesn't take this for granted and has developed a multipronged strategy as insurance.



Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu continues to place roadblocks in the path of any political process designed to bring about a two-state solution, according to a senior European Union official in Brussels who visits the region on a regular basis and spoke to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity.

“There are two facets to Netanyahu’s anti-two-state strategy," the official said. "Netanyahu attempts to ensure the nonviability of a Palestinian state, mainly through the expansion of settlements, and at the same time he recites a long list of reasons why Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is sabotaging possible negotiations. In every meeting with Netanyahu, we discover another obstacle and hear another argument. In the corridors of the EU headquarters there are those defining Netanyahu as a 'serial alibi-ist,' always finding a reason not to place himself at the scene of a two-state solution negotiation.”

At EU headquarters, there is a sense of hopelessness regarding Israeli-Palestinian conflict resolution, given Netanyahu’s rejection of any initiative, Abbas’ weakness and the US abstention from attempts to revive a peace process or to accept a UN Security Council resolution on the issue.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/fr/originals/2015/12/benjamin-netanyahu-strategy-two-state-solution-us-abbas.html#ixzz3wD0DBD13

[shira]

1. Go argue with Abbas, whose 3 No's to Obama/Kerry torpedoed the 2014 talks. n/t

[Jefferson23]

2. The Likud line. n/t

[shira]

3. No, the facts. n/t

[Jefferson23]

4. Facts according to Likud. n/t

[shira]

5. Abbas said no to end-of-conflict. So much for "peace talks". You're wrong, again.

That you cannot reply with anything more substantive than "Likud" shows how bankrupt your assertions are.

[Jefferson23]

6. Likud is behind the lies and the obstacles, that you can't see it is of no

consequence to me. Meretz blamed Bibi as well.

[Little Tich]

7. Thew OP speaks the truth. Israel is a binational Apartheid state in the making.

When Israel voted for Netanyahu and his allies, they chose the one-state solution, and it's not reversible.

[Jefferson23]

8. Yes, mindset of the ultranationalist. n/t

[shira]

9. Abbas rejected Olmert's offer in 2008; perhaps the best offer the PA will ever receive.

No future PM of Israel could offer anything better. Anyone seriously interested in 2 states should be demanding why Abbas rejected it w/o making a counter-offer.

If you're serious, you should be making that demand of Abbas.

Now you claim to be against Apartheid but you make excuses for Abbas wanting to maintain "Apartheid" conditions, occupation, and settlements......why? Defending Abbas' Holocaust denial, making excuses for his incitement and praise of terror attacks, not sure whether Hamas is a fascist organization....

FFS, it was Abbas who said "No" in 2014 to Kerry/Obama when he refused to negotiate an end-of-conflict. What kind of peace talks excludes end-of-conflict? Have you really thought this stuff through? I'm not sure you have...

[Little Tich]

10. This is the year 2016.

Leaving the viability of that "offer" aside, the question is whether anything can be done to stop the one-state from being the only solution... I'm not so sure that blaming the Palestinians for everything will help in any way to stop one-state from becoming a reality.

[shira]

12. You support one binational state when you advocate for full right-of-return.

Have you really thought this through?

[Little Tich]

29. The return to their ancestral homeland is a birthright for both Jews and Palestinians.

Besides, it would follow the 1947 partition plan, as nobody was supposed to be removed against their will. The Palestinian refugees would have been Israeli citizens, which is the their birthright today. However, the whole idea of a two-state solution is unrealistic, thanks to the settlements. I'm not a supporter of the policies that make the two-state solution impossible, but I'm also also a realist.

It's not the return of the Palestinian refugees that makes a two-state solution impossible - it's the settlements...

[Jefferson23]

11. The Palestine Papers debunked that bullshit too...sorry. n/t

[shira]

13. Jefferson23, do you want a 2-state solution given u support right-of-return?

A right-of-return only guarantees a binational state at best, not 2 states.

So it doesn't appear you'd be upset if 2 states never materializes, given you support one state.

[Jefferson23]

14. Do not tell me what I support, ever. You have a link where I ever said that, post it now.

I will not tolerate your games, shira.

[shira]

15. I can provide many links here showing you support right-of-return....

Supporting such a "right" that will result in one state (or one binational state) means you don't support 2 states - a Jewish one next to a Palestinian one.

What's difficult about this?

[Jefferson23]

16. Then put them up, now...what are you waiting for? n/t

[shira]

17. Really? You're now denying that you support right-of-return?

I was expecting some bullshit response that supporting RoR doesn't mean support for one state.

You can't be serious. All it takes is googling your name along with right of return....

[Jefferson23]

18. Then put up the links you claim against me, shira. What are you waiting for? n/t

[shira]

19. No problem, here are 2 links for starters. I guess you forgot what you support.....somehow.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113459045#post6

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113456353#post3

[Jefferson23]

20. Oh good, just as I knew it would be, you're incorrect, as usual...thanks.

You should not ever try and distort, shira..shame on you.

Right of return is their right and as I have said in those threads and many others
Abbas said long ago, a negotiated number and compensation was realistic. But
Bibi and his Likud supporters, that was never good enough. They wanted him
to remove any responsibility..typical Likud mindset.

snip*Yea they do..it is only somewhat ambiguous and most important, the call has always been

for a just resolution to the issue of the refugees..to include compensation.
You're aware of the many facets to the conflict as it relates to the acquisition of land?
No territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force shall be recognized as legal.”
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf

[shira]

21. You're all over the place, so I doubt you know what you actually support.....

1. Abbas demands a RIGHT of return. Each Palestinian and their ancestors for all time have this individual right. THAT's what Abbas demands.

2. Actually, the Palestinians have no such right, no matter what you or Abbas thinks.

3. You appear now to support return, not RIGHT of return if you believe in some negotiated number.

4. You can't say Abbas supports RIGHT of return but will settle only for return with NO RIGHT whatsoever. He cannot concurrently support both as one negates the other. He hasn't budged on a RIGHT of return he demands for every single Palestinian for all eternity. Since he cannot nor will not budge on that RIGHT for all Palestinians into infinity, then he cannot settle on some small number. Else, he's against the RoR.

5. I also highly doubt you support a Jewish state next to a Palestinian one - which is what a 2 state solution is all about. There is simply no other viable 2 state solution. Now if you really supported 2 states as you want us to think you do, then you believe in a Jewish state next to a Palestinian one - which makes you a ZIONIST. But anyone reading your posts knows you're not a Zionist. This is what I mean by you not knowing what the hell it is you actually support.

6. If you don't support a Jewish state, then you support a binational one or one with Arab majority rule - and all that bitching and moaning about Bibi blowing up the 2 state solution is obfuscation and the reason why I question you.

[Jefferson23]

22. Like I said, you have nothing and now you're flailing in the wind with your ridiculous

I doubt this I doubt that blah blah blah.

Flail away, shira.

[shira]

23. Bottom line is you don't support 2 states. You support a binational or 1-state solution....

...since you don't support a Jewish state.

So what are you complaining about WRT the OP and Netanyahu?

[Jefferson23]

24. Still sticking with your willful distortions, shameless is what you are, shira.

Bibi will do as Bibi sees fit, I don't have control over that.

[shira]

25. When you don't support a Jewish state, you're not a supporter of 2 states.

Spin away all you want, no one's buying it.

[Jefferson23]

26. Neither does the US, no spin there, except from you and Bibi.

Israel is not recognized officially as a Jewish state, shira, not by Israel to date nor
by the US. Do you not understand there is division within Israeli citizens on this?
You are either poorly informed and or willfully spinning to protect Bibi.

The Real Debate Over Israel’s ‘Jewish Nation-State’ Bill

It’s not about whether systematic discrimination against Arab citizens should continue—it’s about whether it should be codified in explicitly racist legislation.
http://www.thenation.com/article/real-debate-over-israels-jewish-nation-state-bill/


Kerry: ‘Jewish state’ demand ‘a mistake’
Issue shouldn’t make or break Israel-Palestinian peace negotiations, US secretary of state tells Congress
By Gavriel Fiske and AFP March 14, 2014, 12:26 am
http://www.timesofisrael.com/kerry-jewish-state-demand-a-mistake/

[shira]

27. The US supports a Jewish state next to a Palestinian one. You do not...

Therefore you are not for 2 states.

Like Bibi.

[Jefferson23]

28. HA HA, you're flailing away..too funny. Your willful distortions are a riot. n/t

[FBaggins]

30. Did you even read what you cited?

Kerry noted that the “Jewish state” issue was addressed by UN Resolution 181 in 1947, which granted international recognition to the fledgling state of Israel. There are “more than 40 — 30 mentions of a ‘Jewish state'” in the resolution, Kerry said, and added that the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat “confirmed that he agreed it [Israel] would be a Jewish state” in 1988 and in 2004.

You're seriously claiming that Israel doesn't recognize itself as a Jewish state?

[Jefferson23]

31. Not in an official capacity no, why do you laugh at things you know nothing about?

If what you believe is accurate, why would Bibi need a new law he is trying to pass now, bright light?

[FBaggins]

32. I laugh... because your nonsense is laughable

Yes - any claim that Israel has yet to recognize themselves as a Jewish state is worthy only of laughter.

Israel proclaimed itself to be a Jewish state from day one.

If what you believe is accurate, why would Bibi need a new law he is trying to pass now, bright light?



The law isn't to establish Israel as a Jewish state - that was accomplished at their creation (and was the clear intent of the international community). It does change the understanding of lots of existing law where they clearly call themselves a "Jewish and democratic" state

[Jefferson23]

33. Nuance is not your thing, clearly. As I said, there is no law YET and is a topic

of much division. When you insert yourself in thread conversation try and
read it through, or you can continue to remain clueless as you are now.

The reason Kerry said it was a mistake is due to the fact Bibi wanted
Israel considered officially Jewish for Abbas, very different and why he tried to
placate him with all the references that should be sufficient to Bibi.
It was a ploy to decrease responsibilities to Palestinians and the US did
not support it.

[FBaggins]

34. Allow me to be as un-nuanced as possible. You're flat wrong.

As I said, there is no law YET

Entirely, utterly, wrong. The current debate is over a proposed law that goes well beyond declaring Israel as a Jewish state... but there are LOTS of laws going back to Israel's founding that do so explicitly. I can't make that any simpler for you. Your imagination/longings/whatever can't change reality.


The reason Kerry said it was a mistake

You don't get to imagine reality as you would like it to be and then just declare that's the way things are. If you read the article that you linked to... you would clearly see that this is not why Kerry said that. Kerry thinks that it's a strategic mistake and it makes his job harder... but he also considers the matter to have been resolved long ago.

[Jefferson23]

35. You're clueless as to address when I asked you WHY Bibi wanted it. The proposed law

is not supported by other groups in their government as it is riddled with issues that other
political members recognize being problematic to claim Jewish and democratic.

The problem was Bibi wanted it official, a capacity it never reached before. At that period in time Bibi
wished to use it in Israel's favor in negotiations and the US did not support it, period. It is absurd for
you to try and twist it, Kerry certainly did not.


Lapid, Livni resolved to fight ‘Jewish State’ bill
Senior ministers say their parties will vote against the measure in the Knesset, in move that could lead to early elections
By Adiv Sterman November 23, 2014, 10:31 pm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/lapid-livni-resolved-to-fight-jewish-state-bill/

It is you that has no idea what you're talking about:

snip* Netanyahu was caught on camera boasting to settlers about his success in finding loopholes in the Oslo Accords and using them to derail the process. The demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state could have been another carefully planted mine bound to detonate if a serious prospect of a two-state solution were to ever appear.

However, even if Netanyahu’s demand was genuine and not part of his (non)negotiation strategy, it should be opposed – not just by the Palestinians but also by Israelis. Because a “Jewish” state – as opposed to a state whose culture is Jewish or is “a national homeland” for Jews – will always be a racist, discriminatory state.

http://972mag.com/why-i-oppose-recognizing-israel-as-a-jewish-state/78751/