Will Israel Be Put On Trial For War Crimes?

[Purveyor]

An expected visit by ICC delegation could increase the risk of Israeli officials being tried for war crimes.

By Jonathan Cook

Nazareth - Israel has agreed to allow the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague to send a delegation to Israel and the occupied territories. It was revealed over the weekend in a step that could dramatically increase the risk of Israeli officials being tried for war crimes.

Emmanuel Nahshon, a foreign ministry spokesman, confirmed to Al Jazeera on Sunday that Israel had agreed to the visit in principle, though the "when and how" were still under discussion.

The ICC's move comes as human rights groups have harshly criticised Israel for closing investigations into dozens of allegations that its military has broken the laws of war during an attack on Gaza in the summer of 2014.

The Hague prosecutors are reportedly interested in examining how effective Israel's legal mechanisms are in investigating allegations of war crimes.

more...

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/israel-put-trial-war-crimes-160904084237369.html

[oberliner]

1. Nice spin from good old Jonathan Cook

From another article on this topic:

The ICC would only be able to open an inquiry – which could take years – if the preliminary visit from prosecutors concludes that Israel is unwilling or unable to effectively conduct its own investigations.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/icc-israel-war-crimes-palestinians-investigation-latest-a7227066.html

It will be interesting to see what the ICC decides after this visit.

[shira]

2. LoL. Jonathan "Kook" is a real POS. n/t

[Little Tich]

3. It's indeed quite possible that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.

I personally can't find another explanation to why so many civilians died. The fact that Israel has exonerated itself doesn't matter.

[King_David]

4. No other explanation?

Are you for real ? LOL

The fact that Hamas operated their war especially among their own people , using hospitals and schools as their command central has nothing to do with it in some kind of bizzaro world .

[Little Tich]

8. Many of those civilians were killed inside their homes or in close vicinity, and Israel knew they we

I can't see the difference between IDF attacks and Assad's barrel bombs.

[King_David]

16. That's just absurd

Doesn't really warrant any more of a reply than that .

[shira]

19. Please. You're not being serious, not by a long shot...

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I can't see the difference between IDF attacks and Assad's barrel bombs.

I know that you know better, which makes this statement of yours truly revolting.

[shira]

5. You mean civilians among Hamas fighters ALSO dressed as civilians?

You can't find another explanation? Please.

Come on, be honest. Who are you kidding? Israel's combatant to civilian kill ratio tops every other western military. You want war crimes, Israel is the last country to try.

The USA's top military leader says Israel is more careful protecting civilians than the USA. Maybe you think he's a hasbara shill?

LoL.

[Little Tich]

10. Targeting homes of civilians with civilians inside could possibly be a war crime.

I have no other explanation, but perhaps you can explain it to me?

[shira]

13. And yet top military personnel around the globe say Israel exceeded legal standards...

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 07:12 AM - Edit history (2)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134106200

The group found that “during Operation Protective Edge last summer… Israel not only met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict, but in many cases significantly exceeded that standard.”

They wrote that “in some cases Israel’s scrupulous adherence to the laws of war cost Israeli soldiers’ and civilians’ lives.”

It's also been widely reported that Hamas dresses as civilians to blend in with them while in combat - a war crime that leads to civilian deaths. The war crime is on them, not Israel. To claim otherwise is perverse.

So why the pretense? You're really not convinced Hamas is guilty of multiple war crimes? Be honest. Hamas cannot be defended by any sane human being.

[Little Tich]

20. Two can play this game...

World Report 2015: Israel/Palestine Events of 2014
Source: Human Rights Watch

Israel and Hamas committed serious violations of the laws of war during fighting in the Gaza Strip in July and August 2014. At least 2,100 Palestinians were killed, of whom the United Nations identified more than 1,500 as civilians, and approximately 11,000 people, mostly civilians, were injured. The tens of thousands of Israeli attacks caused the vast majority of destruction during the fighting, which left uninhabitable 22,000 homes, displacing 108,000 people, and left hundreds of thousands without adequate water or electricity.

Hamas and Palestinian armed groups in Gaza carried out about 1,700 mortar attacks and 4,800 indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli population centers during the fighting. The attacks killed five civilians in Israel, wounded thirty-six, and caused thousands of civilians in communities near Gaza to temporarily leave their homes. Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense undoubtedly reduced the possible civilian toll. Sixty-six Israeli soldiers died during the fighting.

Read more: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/israel/palestine

---

UN report cites possible war crimes by both Israel and Palestinian groups in 2014 Gaza conflict
Source: UN News Centre, 22 June 2015

22 June 2015 – A new report released by a United Nations investigative panel on the possible commission of war crimes in Gaza during the 2014 conflict between Israel and Palestinian armed groups in the enclave, has gathered substantial information finding the allegations to be credible, the Organization’s human rights office announced today.

The report – issued today by the UN Independent Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza conflict – suggests that possible war crimes were committed by both Palestinian and Israeli armed groups during the 51-day conflict, which resulted in over a thousand deaths and the widespread destruction of the Gaza strip.

Read more: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=51215#.V9DJX1V94dU

---

Israeli rights group questions legality of targeting Gaza homes in war
Source: The Guardian, 28 January 2015

B’Tselem says Hamas rocket fire did not provide moral or legal justification for policy that led to 606 deaths in 70 attacks

Serious questions have been raised by the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem about the legality of Israel’s policy of targeting dozens of Palestinian homes during last summer’s war in Gaza – a strategy that led to hundreds of civilian deaths.

The report is the latest alleging serious breaches of international humanitarian law by Israel during the 50-day conflict. According to B’Tselem, the policy of striking residences led to the deaths of 606 people in 70 attacks on homes that it examined. Among the dead were 93 children under the age of five.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/28/israel-policy-targeting-gaza-homes-human-rights

---

Israel/OPT: Two years on still no justice for war crimes victims
Source: Amnesty International, 7 July 2016

Tomorrow, 8 July 2016, marks the second anniversary of the start of a 50-day Israeli military offensive which brought unprecedented death and destruction to the Gaza Strip.
(snip)

In a new briefing issued today, Amnesty International asks why no genuine criminal investigations have been launched, and why no one has yet been held to account for atrocities in spite of war crimes being committed by both sides.

“During 50 days of attacks, Israeli forces wreaked massive death and destruction on the Gaza Strip, killing close to 1,500 civilians, more than 500 of whom were children,” said Philip Luther, Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Programme Director.

Read more: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/07/israel-opt-two-years-on-still-no-justice-for-war-crimes-victims/


I think Amnesty International, the UN, B'Tselem and Human Rights Watch beat your "top military personnel around the globe".

[shira]

24. Your sources deny Hamas uses human shields in order to win the PR war & get Gazans killed....

The proof of these war crimes is undeniable...

Gaza reporters’ tweets: Hamas using human shields
On Wednesday, Peter Stefanovic of Australia’s Channel Nine News tweeted: “Hamas rockets just launched over our hotel from a site about two hundred metres away. So a missile launch site is basically next door.”
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Gaza-reporters-tweets-Hamas-using-human-shields-368689

Indian TV shows Hamas rocket fired near Gaza hotel
Reporter watches launch ‘bang in the middle of what is a residential area full of apartment buildings’
http://www.timesofisrael.com/indian-tv-shows-hamas-rocket-fired-near-gaza-hotel/

So nothing they claim can be taken seriously. Your sources even cover for Hamas' terror tunnels, bending over backwards to give Hamas every possible benefit of the doubt no matter how idiotic the explanation...

Human Rights Watch Official Justifies Hamas’ Use of Terror Tunnels
Indeed, why can’t Israel’s supporters simply accept that the Executive Director of Human Rights Watch pronounces Hamas tunnels as perfectly legitimate under international humanitarian law as long as the genocidal anti-Semitic terrorist group will do its very best to avoid civilian casualties while attacking from the tunnels? But Ken Roth’s verdict on the Hamas tunnels has actually far-reaching implications, particularly since he also clarified today that acts of aggression are not necessarily a violation of international humanitarian law as long as non-combatants are not the target of the aggression.

This is definitely good news for Hamas and other jihadist groups all over the Middle East and beyond. It would mean, for example, that Hamas can tunnel with Ken Roth’s blessings under the Egyptian border to attack Egyptian soldiers. Hezbollah also knows now that Ken Roth sees nothing wrong if it tunnels into Israel to attack the IDF. And the blood-drenched jihadists of the newly formed Islamic State (IS) may now want to consider tunneling into Jordan to attack the Jordanian army. All these terror groups can feel confident that the Executive Director of Human Rights Watch will speak up for their right to tunnel wherever they want to attack the defense forces of another country.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/22/human-rights-watch-official-justifies-hamas-use-of-terror-tunnels/

Human Rights Watch’s Ken Roth Goes to Bat for Hamas War Crimes
Ken Roth could have chosen to attack The New York Times for narrowing the definition in such a way as to downplay Hamas culpability for this war crime – which is what a zealous human rights defender would be expected to do. Instead, he went to bat for Hamas against the civilians of Gaza he supposedly cares so much about. Even the Times article says explicitly that “Experts in international law say that…Hamas is legally obligated to minimize its operations near civilians” yet Roth doesn’t want to highlight how bad Hamas is, but to emphasize Hamas is not really that bad. Roth is giving a terror group the benefit of the doubt that Israel has never received.

The New York Times article was written before Thursday’s events at the UNRWA school, but Roth’s tweet was written after details already were being published. And already at that time it was known that Hamas did force civilians to stay in the UNRWA shelter even as Israel was trying to get the civilians evacuated. As Washington Free Beacon recounts the events:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/25/human-rights-watchs-ken-roth-goes-to-bat-for-hamas-war-crimes/

Unforgivable: Amnesty Serves as a Propaganda Tool for Hamas, Foreign Ministry Charges
The report completely ignores Hamas’s attacks on Israeli civilians, its use of human shields and of schools, mosques and hospitals as weapons caches and fortified positions, the terror tunnels and other war crimes it had committed against Israel.
https://unitedwithisrael.org/unforgivable-amnesty-serves-as-a-propaganda-tool-for-hamas-foreign-ministry-charges/

You once wrote it's possible to support Hamas' incitement & murdering of Jews and not be considered antisemitic. You couldn't defend that whopper, of course. But I want to know why there's this need by Israel's "critics" to defend and support an obviously genocidal, murderous bunch of Jew hating neo-nazis like Hamas....can you tell me?

[shira]

25. So why would all these military commanders from around the globe say Israel....

....acts better than their own liberal western nations to protect civilians if it's not true?

What would compel them to lie like that?

Be honest.

[Little Tich]

26. For me it's not inconceivable that a bunch of pro-Israel military people speak out in support of

Israel.

But how do you explain that HRW, the UN, B'Tselem and Amnesty make independent and impartial investigations, but still are pretty much united in their strong criticism of Israel?

Perhaps there's a conspiracy out there?

[shira]

27. Of course not for you, but it's unprecedented that so many western military leaders....

...would admit that their own armies fall short of Israel's standards. They could've just claimed Israel fought cleanly, but they went way further.

You've already seen for yourself how HRW, the UN, B'tselem, and Amnesty bend over backwards making excuses for Hamas, denying their war crimes, etc. Only an intentionally blind person wouldn't see that.

See post #23 below. You think all those journalists lied? That they too are hasbara shills? LoL... There's also #24 above, proving w/o a doubt Hamas has supporters & defenders among the alleged human rights community.

Be honest.

[FBaggins]

6. It may be "possible"... but it's CERTAIN that Hamas did.

If you can't find another explanation, then your head is firmly planted in... the sand.

[shira]

7. That's for DAMNED sure about Hamas. Why aren't they being tried for war crimes?

[Little Tich]

9. Hamas killed 6 Israeli civilians while the IDF killed 1462 Palestinian civilians.

Hamas also excuted around 40 people without trial, which is a war crime, but I suppose Palestinians don't count for you.

[shira]

12. You're defending Hamas against human shield & child militant war crimes....

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 07:15 AM - Edit history (1)

....while choosing instead to attack a western liberal democracy like Israel which has proven to be more careful WRT civilian lives than any other western liberal nation in combat. How pathetic.

Top Generals to U.N.: Israel Exceeded Legal Standards in Gaza War
http://www.worldjewishdaily.com/generals-israel-gaza-war.php

Israel exceeded legal standards during last year's war in Gaza, often endangering its own soldiers and civilians in order to protect Gaza citizens.

That is the conclusion of a report by a group of top former military commanders and government officials on the conduct of Israel's army during last year's Operation Protective Edge. Their report was submitted to the United Nations Human Rights Council, which is soon expected to release a report on the Gaza war.

We examined the circumstances that led to the tragic conflict last summer and are in no doubt that this was not a war that Israel wanted. In reality Israel sought to avoid the conflict and exercised great restraint over a period of months before the war when its citizens were targeted by sporadic rocket attacks from Gaza. Once the war had begun, Israel made repeated efforts to terminate the fighting. The war that Israel was eventually compelled to fight against Hamas and other Gaza extremists was a legitimate war, necessary to defend its citizens and its territory against sustained attack from beyond its borders.

Our overall findings are that during Operation Protective Edge last summer, in the air, on the ground and at sea, Israel not only met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict, but in many cases significantly exceeded that standard. We saw clear evidence of this from the upper to the lower levels of command. A measure of the seriousness with which Israel took its moral duties and its responsibilities under the laws of armed conflict is that in some cases Israel’s scrupulous adherence to the laws of war cost Israeli soldiers’ and civilians’ lives.

Never before has any other military been praised for its efforts to protect civilians.

Only Israel.

Be honest.

[FBaggins]

15. It really isn't fair to call them "human shields"... this is far worse

The definition of a "human shield", as with recent Palestinian strategy, involves co-locating civilians with military targets. However, human shields are put there to keep those military targets from being struck. In the words of Rule 97 - "with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives"

But Hamas isn't trying to protect a HQ when it places it in a hospital - or an ammo dump when it's placed in a school - or a rocket launching site when placed next to a hotel. What Hamas does is far worse. They intentionally co-locate military targets with civilian so that the civilians will be killed.

They aren't human shields... they're human sacrifices. Intentionally killing their own (including children) for political gain.

[shira]

17. True, but to accuse Hamas of the obvious isn't very PC for some reason.

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Best for the compassion abusers to deflect from Hamas' war crimes & blame Israel (the Jews) instead.

[Little Tich]

21. On the subject of the use of human shields:

Israel/Gaza conflict: Questions and Answers
Source: Amnesty International, 25 July 2014

The Israeli authorities claim that Hamas and Palestinian armed groups use Palestinian civilians in Gaza as “human shields”. Does Amnesty International have any evidence that this has occurred during the current hostilities?

Amnesty International is monitoring and investigating such reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. In previous conflicts Amnesty International has documented that Palestinian armed groups have stored munitions in and fired indiscriminate rockets from residential areas in the Gaza Strip in violation of international humanitarian law. Reports have also emerged during the current conflict of Hamas urging residents to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate. However, these calls may have been motivated by a desire to minimize panic and displacement, in any case, such statements are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as “human shields” for fighters, munitions, or military equipment. Under international humanitarian law even if “human shields” are being used Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply.

Read more: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/07/israelgaza-conflict-questions-and-answers/

[shira]

23. That's complete garbage and you know it. Foreign Journo's have busted Hamas....

No one, and I mean absolutely no one believes this....

Reports have also emerged during the current conflict of Hamas urging residents to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate. However, these calls may have been motivated by a desire to minimize panic and displacement.....

Here are foreign Journo's reporting the obvious that Amnesty is trying to censor....

Foreign journalists receive death threats for ‘fabricating information for Israel,’ accused of informing on terrorists.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Gaza-reporters-tweets-Hamas-using-human-shields-368689

Several journalists from around the world reported seeing rockets fired from civilian areas in Gaza in recent days, and received threatening tweets in return accusing them of “informing” the IDF. On Wednesday, Peter Stefanovic of Australia’s Channel Nine News tweeted: “Hamas rockets just launched over our hotel from a site about two hundred metres away. So a missile launch site is basically next door.” An account called @ThisIsGaza said this was Stefanovic’s fourth time “passing and fabricating information to Israel... from GAZA” and threatened to sue him. Another account, @longitude0 wrote: “You are a cretin. Are you working for the IDF” and “in WWII spies got shot.”

Financial Times Jerusalem Bureau Chief John Reed reported seeing “two rockets fired toward Israel from near al-Shifa hospital, even as more bombing victims were brought in.” Shifa, in Gaza City, is the main medical facility in the Strip. In response, @Saritah_91 tweeted: “We’ll hold you responsible if Israel uses your tweet to bomb the hospital & then justify it.” Another twitter user, @ Faysal_FreeGaza, said he’s “subtly justifying and encouraging IDF attacks on hospitals,” and @Maysara_ ara wrote: “Get out of Gaza u informant.”

Wall Street Journal correspondent Nick Casey tweeted on Tuesday a photo of a Hamas official using Shifa hospital for media interviews, writing: “You have to wonder w the shelling how patients at Shifa hospital feel as Hamas uses it as a safe place to see interviews.” By Wednesday, the tweet was deleted, but pro-Palestinian Twitter accounts continued to include him on lists of “journos in Gaza who lie/fabricate info for Israel” and “must be sued for crimes.” On Sunday, Janis Mackey Frayer, a correspondent for Canada’s CTV, tweeted that, while in Gaza City’s Shejaiya’s neighborhood, she “saw several Hamas gunmen. One passed dressed in a woman’s headscarf... tip of a gun poked out from under cloak.” She received threats similar to those sent to other reporters.

Harry Fear, a journalist from the UK reporting from Gaza for RT (formerly Russia Today) television, tweeted last week: “Early morning Gaza rockets were fired into Israel. A well-known site in W. Gaza City, near my hotel, was among the origins, confirm locals.” Fear then took on the critics, tweeting soon after that he rejects “loaded complaints that I ‘informed’ Israel about the specifics of Gaza military sites... These sites are well-known among locals and internationals here.” “Should a journalist only report the noise and ferocity of Israel’s attacks & not the sounds of Gaza’s rockets? Both terrify people,” he tweeted. Later that day, Fear tweeted: “Al-Wafa hospital has been hit in the last while; injuries reported – this is the hospital with human shields.”

I just want to know why you find it so important to defend Hamas from these war crimes?

Can you please tell me?

[shira]

14. Yeah...

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)

[King_David]

18. Already done...

Any other requests ?
LOL