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Wed Jan 4, 2017, 01:36 AM

 

In Congress, a new battle emerges: 2 states or not 2 states

http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-congress-a-new-battle-emerges-two-states-or-not-two-states/

AIPAC/DC Establishment vs the Trumpers on whether to pretend the two-state solution is viable and to also pretend settlements aren't a causal factor in its demise. AIPAC has the upper hand thus far.

In one corner is the mainstream pro-Israel community, combining leftists and centrists and led by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, seeking to preserve two states as a viable outcome for Israel and the Palestinians.

In the other is a deeply conservative and often Orthodox minority of the American Jewish community that includes figures who are close to President-elect Donald Trump. They want the two-state solution declared dead in order to pave the way for Israel to annex portions of the West Bank it still controls.

The winner in Round 1: AIPAC.

The Republican leadership of the incoming US House of Representatives has scheduled a vote for Thursday on the resolution being backed by the lobby. Reps. Ed Royce, R-California, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and the committee’s senior Democrat, Rep. Eliot Engel, D-New York, are the sponsors.

The other resolution, brought out by Rep. Dennis Ross, R-Florida — the House deputy majority whip and a member of Trump’s transition team — is in limbo awaiting consideration by the Foreign Affairs Committee.

The two-state outcome appears high in the Royce-Engel resolution, in the second paragraph: “Whereas the United States has long supported a negotiated settlement leading to a sustainable two-state solution with the democratic, Jewish state of Israel and a demilitarized, democratic Palestinian state living side-by-side in peace and security.”

That resolution calls on the United States to seek the repeal or alteration of the Security Council resolution, so that “it is no longer one-sided and anti-Israel.”

But don’t count out the other side. Trump has nominated as ambassador to Israel David Friedman, who has been a major donor to the settlement movement, and named as his top official dealing with international relations Jason Greenblatt, who has said that settlements are not an impediment to peace. The family of his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has donated to settlements.

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Reply In Congress, a new battle emerges: 2 states or not 2 states (Original post)
geek tragedy Jan 2017 OP
Little Tich Jan 2017 #1
shira Jan 2017 #2
Little Tich Jan 2017 #6
geek tragedy Jan 2017 #3
Post removed Jan 2017 #4
Little Tich Jan 2017 #5

Response to geek tragedy (Original post)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 07:00 AM

1. I'm not sure if I can see two opposing sides - both of them are against a viable Palestinian state.

AIPAC wants to pretend to support the two-state solution while creating a one-state reality on the ground, and the Republicans want to stop pretending to support the two-state solution while creating a one-state reality on the ground. The outcome is exactly the same either way.

The problem is that Israel can have either the settlements or a Palestinian state, but not both. UNSC resolution reflects this reality as well as the consensus of a world community which favors the creation of a Palestinian state.

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Response to Little Tich (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 07:43 AM

2. You don't support 2 states for 2 people either. What makes you different?

 

Last edited Thu Jan 5, 2017, 09:33 AM - Edit history (1)

In fact, what does Israel realistically have to do to force the Palestinians to accept 2 states for 2 people and genuine peace? Simply giving the PLO and Hamas virtually everything & committing national suicide will not bring peace, so what's the solution to the problem? Takes two to tango...

So enough of the BS. Let's see how much you want peace & 2 states for 2 people. What exactly has to happen from Israel (to your satisfaction) and how will that make the PLO and Hamas want peace & 2 states for 2 people w/o bringing on another war or national suicide for Israel?

Waiting...

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Response to shira (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 10:21 PM

6. Do you support the idea of "One state, one people"?

For me, the whole idea is quite frightening and goes against my belief that democracy should treat all people equally, regardless of ethnicity. I think your concerns are awfully similar to those of the European nationalist rightwing who want ethnic and cultural homogeneity in their countries at the expense of the universality of democratic values.

But if we just ignore all that and look at the situation on a practical level, the absolute thing that Israel must do is to allow a functioning Palestinian economy. Currently, the size of the Palestinian economy is about half the size it would be without Israeli restrictions, and the GDP per capita is shrinking. Palestine is not a viable entity in its current form, and any talk about two states are meaningless without a viable Palestine on the ground or a plan for how it's going to become viable.

Don't you think that building up the Palestinian economy would be a good idea to start with under any circumstances?

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Response to Little Tich (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 09:12 AM

3. Difference is AIPAC wants to preserve bipartisan support

 

for Israel, and recognizes that many/most Democrats won't support a formal apartheid state but will support an informal one.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 5, 2017, 09:48 PM

5. Yeah, it's quite clear that some Democrats are prepared to support informal Apartheid -

after all, that's what it means to be PEP. I used to think that there was little support for the settlements among Democrats, but the recent surge of Democratic criticism of Obama's abstention in the UN shows otherwise. The bipartisan support seems to have less to do with support for the only democracy (?) in the Middle-East than steadfast support for the settlement enterprise.

Personally, I see little difference between informally supporting Apartheid and openly supporting Apartheid, but I recognize that it's a big difference for those mentioned in the OP.

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