Israeli lawmaker destroys copy of the New Testament

[bemildred]

JERUSALEM -- Calling the Christian faith’s New Testament a “despicable book,” a right-wing Israeli lawmaker tore up a copy of the biblical text and threw it in a trash can as one of his aides took pictures that he later released to Israeli media.

Lawmaker Michael Ben-Ari, of the far-right National Union Party, blamed Christianity and the New Testament for the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe that led to the slaughter of 6 million Jews during the Holocaust.

The copy of the New Testament had been sent to Israeli lawmakers by the Bible Society of Israel in an attempt to foster goodwill among the religions, according to a report Tuesday in Israel’s Maariv newspaper, which also published the photo of Ben-Ari destroying the book.

“Sending this book to [Knesset members] is a provocation, and the appropriate response is to send this book and what it represents to the rubbish bin of history,” Ben-Ari was quoted as saying. The Knesset is Israel's parliament.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/07/israeli-lawmaker-destroys-copy-of-the-new-testament.html

[Sherman A1]

1. So I am guessing

that "the goodwill among religions" thing is pretty much out of the question in this case.

[aquart]

4. I dunno about Hebrew, but Yiddish has an awful lot of words for a worthless man.

[dipsydoodle]

2. Renaming the Old Testament Grimms Fairytales might be more appropriate.

.

[aquart]

3. Never read it, huh?

Fairytales are watered down memories of discarded religions. The OT is the record of a faith on the rise with a strong nationalistic slant. It incorporated older religious material, some very bawdy puns from an older civilization, actual history, and local law books.

It was so damn rich that the Christians couldn't bear to discard it...and frequently seem to prefer their misreading of it to their own documents.

[dipsydoodle]

5. I've got Robert Crumb's edition.

Got that when I was in OH a few years ago.

[azurnoir]

8. I'd love to see that

nobody could do it quite like R Crumd

does the Checkered Demon make an appearance? I could see him being worked in even though he isn't Crumb's creation

[oberliner]

9. Are you Christian?

Do you really find this sort of thing amusing?

[azurnoir]

10. No I am not a Christian, why would you even ask and I'm a long time fan of R Crumb

so on that basis I'd love to see it, I wonder if he worked his self portrait into the chapter on Onan it would be so fitting

edited for clarity

[oberliner]

15. Are you Jewish? Muslim?

It's not clear which religions you are OK denigrating and which ones are off limits.

[azurnoir]

17. None of the above and I do not consider being a fan of R Crumb denigratin g of any religion

as far as religion goes I do not know if I fit any category it was perhaps the one part of my upbringing that stuck, in which I was influenced to believe in G-d but not religion, IMO the existence of G-d is real but unlike religion which claims to know G-d's purpose, expectations, rewards and punishments ect I make no such claim

[oberliner]

18. I'm talking about the OP

The actual article itself - sorry for confusion.

[azurnoir]

19. well the subthread started with my comment about liking R Crumb

any comment I had on the OP itself is in #14, however earlier today there were some articles in Israeli papers that seemed to portray this as an attempt to "Evangelize" or 'Proselytize' Jewish MK's by Messianic's if so that was out of line however that does not excuse Ben Ari's actions either

[oberliner]

20. No - it started with a comparison of the Old Testament to Fairy Tales

Therein lies the problem.

[azurnoir]

21. my first post was about R Crumb you replied to that

but whatever

[oberliner]

22. You posted about R Crumb because you were interested in that comic book

That's what I was asking about - and then tying it in to the OP.

But you've made your opinion on religion clear in your last post so I thank you for that.

[dipsydoodle]

11. $8 used on Amazon

Just checked on. com for you. Hardback : there is no paperback. I already had some of his music Cds and his book Heroes of Jazz, Blues & Country

Its his artwork which facsinates me. He's autistic and I have a nephew who is too who draws in a similar fashion.

[azurnoir]

12. Thanks

it did seem that Crumb was on a different operating system, rather than some processing error

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Crumb's an atheist, but he actually got a lot of praise from religious groups for it

I mean, he did it straight; certainly, some of the OT stories are pretty graphic, but he didn't put anything in there that isn't in the text.

Didn't censor it, either.

It's really an impressive piece of work. To call it a "Comic Book" doesn't really do it justice. It's pretty amazing.

[bemildred]

6. I will just comment by saying I have thought about this for some time now,

and I can't think of anything acceptable to me to say about it. It beggars description. It's like something in a book. So I came up with this meta-comment instead.

[King_David]

7. What a disgusting individual. nt

[LeftishBrit]

13. Ben-Ari is being his usual self, i.e. pretty disgusting

[azurnoir]

14. Christian MK calls for legal action against Ben-Ari

Attorney-General Yehuda Weinstein should press incitement charges against MK Michael Ben-Ari (National Union) for tearing a New Testament and throwing it in the trash, the Knesset’s sole Christian MK, Hanna Sweid (Hadash), said Wednesday.

“This is hooliganism, bullying and an apocalyptic act of hatred that was baseless and unnecessary,” Sweid told The Jerusalem Post after Ben-Ari destroyed the book, which was mailed to all 120 MKs by a messianic Jewish organization. “This reflects the culture of a man who is dangerous to nations and religions of the world.”

The MK, a member of the Arab-Jewish socialist faction Hadash, complained to the Knesset Ethics Committee, but said he has no doubt that they will not punish Ben-Ari effectively or remove his parliamentary immunity. He was also skeptical that the Attorney-General’s office would heed his call, though he called Ben-Ari’s actions “incitement,” and expressed fears that they would encourage the public “to raise a hand against Christians.”

“I hope that [Ben-Ari] represents a minority, and such incitement won’t continue,” Sweid sighed.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=277981

[holdencaufield]

16. As a kid...

... I was frequently given unsolicited Xtian literature -- pamphlets, Chick tracks, once a cassette of bible lectures set to country music (catchy) -- in a effort to "correct or complete my Judaic soul". Even today, in our shul, we have Xtian visitors at least once a month who come in and try to make converts during the service or at the meal after. They come into our community old-age home all the time bothering the old folks -- they had to add extra security. It's all a bit irritating.

I can see this man's frustration, proselytizing is offensive to a lot of Jews and to have it happen in Israel would be very frustrating. If someone sent me an unsolicited Xtian bible in the post it would probably end up in the bin as well -- though not at a public press conference. Unless, of course, it was the R. Crumb version -- I would read the heck out of that.

Yea, he probably over-reacted, but why was he sent that book if not to provoke a reaction?

[shaayecanaan]

34. There is also a Palestinian Bible Society...

according to their website, they have "presented Bible and Scripture portions to a number of Libraries, Churches, and Legislative Courts", as well as a couple of Palestinian politicians as well, judging from their gallery.

http://www.pbs-web.com

[holdencaufield]

35. And....?

[shaayecanaan]

38. Your point was...

Yea, he probably over-reacted, but why was he sent that book if not to provoke a reaction?

They also send that book to the Palestinians. I am not sure if they do so in order to provoke them to burn it, but in any event the Palestinians do not seem to be so inclined. I suppose they think that it is a very rude thing to do.

[Igel]

23. Sometimes English is embarrassingly ambiguous.

"Calling the Christian faith’s New Testament a 'despicable book,' a right-wing Israeli lawmaker tore up a copy of the biblical text and threw it in a trash can as one of his aides took pictures that he later released to Israeli media."

So it goes: Lawmwker ... threw it as his (lawmaker's) aide took pictures that he released ...

First grammatical parsing says that his aide released it. The trashing was done in private and the aide took pictures.

But common sense says this is improbable, unless the lawmaker has an aide that routinely goes around documenting his boss' every move in pixels and then releasing them to the media. If he were my aide, well, he wouldn't be my aide. So ...

That means the lawmaker released the pictures.

This is also strange, because it means that the lawmaker decided to have a delayed photo-op, him in a rage in his office destroying a book. "Excuse me, Alon, this book has arrived. I will be in an authentic rage in about 3 minutes and sense a fit of book-trashing is imminent. It's too imminent to gather a crowd, so please be a good man and gather your camera to record the rage and fit so that a record of it can be submitted for public accolades. Are we ready? That's a good chap."

Does the Knesset have a staff psychologist/diagnostician?

[bemildred]

24. Oh it was definitely a dramatic production.

A bit over the top to be sure.

[Scurrilous]

25. Inside the Christians United for Israel rally: Unconditional support for Israel

American Christians from all over the U.S. attend gathering; largely unmoved over MK tearing up New Testament.

<snip>

"Liberal Internet users were quick to point out on Tuesday the irony in the fact that the seventh annual gathering of "Christians United for Israel" (CUFI) taking place in Convention Center in Washington, DC, coincided with a Israeli MK Michael Ben-Ari demonstratively tearing up a copy of the New Testament he received by mail, and throwing it into the trash, calling it " an abominable book that brought about the murder of millions of Jews in the Inquisition and autos da fé” and "provocation by church missionaries."

However, the leadership of the organization that claims 1.25 million supporters in the United States seemed unmoved by this act. "People here say that when they wanted to help Israel, at first they weren't welcomed with opened arms," CUFI Executive Director David Brog told Haaretz. "Jews are somewhat suspicious toward Christians. So stories like this might disappoint our Christian friends, they might be curious why should anyone who belongs to people that went through such persecution, would be engaged in such destructive task. But I don't think it will deter them from their task."

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/focus-u-s-a/inside-the-christians-united-for-israel-rally-unconditional-support-for-israel.premium-1.451848

[oberliner]

27. This tells you a lot about why CUFI is so "pro-Israel"

Hint: it doesn't end well for the Jews.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Yeah, the whole narrative is pretty damn insulting.

One of my favorite pastimes is reminding Right-Wing Fundamentalist Christian "Friends of Israel" how friendly Israel is to LGBT and reproductive rights.

[oberliner]

31. They don't really care about Israelis as people

It's all about doing what they think they are supposed to do as per the book in question.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. 'course not. And as far as I understand it, the movie ends with Jews either damned or converting.

Like I said, pretty damn insulting. But, then, Fundies aren't known for their open-minededness.

[azurnoir]

36. actually for a good portion of them it's about the "Rapture" and from what I understand

that's not in the New Testament at all if that is the "book in question" or at least that term is not used

[oberliner]

40. You understand incorrectly

Try Luke.

[azurnoir]

41. Never read Luke however the modern concept of the "Rapture" was an invention

of a 19th century preacher who BTW made a small fortune selling "Rapture Robes" to his followers

[shaayecanaan]

33. Because it pays well

The Christian Right didn't give a toss about Israel until the 1980s when Jewish groups started to seriously organise themselves. From Sun Myung Moon to the anti-global warming lobby, the Christian Right has always been ready to ride a winning horse.

[azurnoir]

37. For some of them at least it's about the Rapture

Last edited Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:57 AM - Edit history (1)

or end times and they believe that the founding of Israel ushered in the "End Times" or some such

[shaayecanaan]

39. for some of them...

Anecdotally, a lot of the rank and file at these Christian united for Israel events are "messianics" - Jews with Christian stylings or Christians with Jewish stylings or people in between. A bit ironic as mainstream Jews regard these folks as a kind of treacherous Christian trojan horse.

But for the higher-ups it is expediency pure and simple.

Max Blumenthal's short film about these people is an oldie but a goodie. The concerned looks on the Jews' faces during the speaking in tongues and interpretive dancing is hilarious:-

[COLGATE4]

51. The film is mildly amusing, except that it

clearly shows Lieberman to be one of the biggest disgraces to the Jewish people in recent memory. What a schmuk.

[Ken Burch]

45. In the 1930's, the political ancestors of the Christian Right in the U.S.

were among the loudest in demanding that Jewish refugees from Hitler be denied sanctuary in the United States. And even today, their "pro-Israel" position is part of a long-term vision that leads to a bloodsoaked "Last Days" scenario in which the Jewish communities in Israel and elsewhere are all forced to choose between converting to Christianity or being slaughtered.

If I were Jewish or "pro-Israel", they'd be the last people I'd trust as allies.

[shaayecanaan]

46. I think thats also part of it...

Many US Christian groups applauded Hitler for his strong stance against communism, amongst other things. To some extent, Christian groups are Israel's best ally in the United States for the same reason that Germany is Israel's best ally in Europe.

[bluestateguy]

26. To publicly destroy any religion's holy book is despicable

And before anybody asks, yes that applies to everybody and every faith.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Not my religion. My religion's holy book is called "Publicly Destroy This Book"

[Scurrilous]

42. Jewish girls desecrate Koran in Hebron

Police yet to trace two girls who vandalized holy Muslim books in Cave of Patriarchs four months ago

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4259615,00.html

<snip>

"Two teenage girls caught on security cameras tearing Koran books inside the Cave of Patriarchs, have yet to be questioned by police who have failed to track them down, four months after the incident.

The incident occured four months ago when the Cave of Patriarchs was open to Jewish worshippers. The girls entered the cenotaph of Isaac, which is used for Muslim prayers, took two Koran books from a nearby stand and proceeded to tear the pages. Later on, they hurled the books, which are sacred to Islam, at the wall.

Midway through the desecration, they were noticed by an Israel Border Guard officer who did not intervene.

Another officer who was at the scene approached the girls and stalled them.

And yet, since the event the girls have not been summoned by the police for further investigation."

[Ken Burch]

44. The Hebron settlers have caused nothing but trouble.

Yes, what happened in 1929 was an unspeakable thing, but that didn't justify their little group showing up in Hebron and doing nothing but provoking the Arab population of the town over and over again(and doing this decades after anyone who had anything to do with the crimes of '29 had died of old age).

Hebron should be a city where Arabs AND Jews can live...but the group that showed up their in '67 needs to leave, and be replaced by people who aren't just there to raise tensions.

[Shaktimaan]

47. really?

So you are in favor of segregating and discriminating against people according to their political beliefs, (no matter how despicable)? They surely don't provoke the Palestinians any more than Hamas or IJ provokes Israelis. Should Hamas have to leave Gaza as well? Why can't it be enough to impose laws and enforce them evenly?

What is your thought as to what should happen to Hebron?

[Ken Burch]

49. It's not about beliefs as much as about temperament

In any polarized situation, you don't send in the crazies as the advance party.

Those who are there now should be taken back to Israel proper and replaced, if anyone is to replace them, by people who are of calm and moderate personality-people who would recognize that they simply can't act like Hebron is their city and NOT the Arabs' city as well.

It's also about, in this case, the duplicity of those who went to Hebron in '67(that's when they showed up, IIRC-correct me if I'm wrong here).

Those people told the Israeli government that they were JUST going to visit for the weekend, for the purpose of holding a wedding and reception. When it became clear that they had no intention of leaving, and no intention also of attempting to even try to co-exist peacefully with the Arab population of Hebron, the Israeli authorities should have gone in and removed them, because, by staying when they had said they would leave, they were a threat to public order.

It might also be better for Israel simply to state that everybody has the right to live in Hebron but, for the good of the ultimate process of liberation, they weren't going to enforce that right at this time.

The massacre of 1929 was wrong, but letting these people stay, when they are staying not with the intent of living in peace with the Arab majority of Hebron but of acting as if that majority has no right to even be there, is not a sane response.

And it's not about "segregation" in the U.S. sense-it's about incursion on territory during a wartime situation.

[Ken Burch]

43. He's quite right to feel anger about what institutional Christianity has done to Jews.

The anger should be directed, though, towards those who twisted the teachings, which were originally meant simply to be a continuation of Jewish thought, into an antisemitic, pro-Roman Empire hate creed.

2,000 years of damage caused by those distortions still needs to be repaired...and may not be reparable.

[Shaktimaan]

48. to be fair...

it is not merely a continuation but a refutation.

[EleazarV]

50. Exactly.

Not to mention that the 2,000 year persecution of Jews by xtians goes far beyond simply tearing pages out of some silly book.

You can't really compare ripping up ink and paper to centuries of expulsions, pogroms, exterminations, and persecutions.

[Ken Burch]

52. Indeed.

n/t.