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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:06 AM

French Media Analyst Philippe Karsenty Found Guilty of Defamation in Al-Dura Hoax Case

French media analyst Philippe Karsenty was found guilty Wednesday by a French court of defamation for accusing a state television network of falsely depicting the death of a young Palestinian boy in a firefight between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli soldiers, the Times of Israel reports.

The footage of the boy, Mohammed al-Dura, was aired by the France 2 network. The start of the Second Intifada in which over 1000 Israelis were killed, was largely attributed to the video, which was circulated throughout the world.

A Paris court fined Karsenty 7,000 euros claiming that he falsely accused the network’s Jerusalem bureau chief, Charles Enderlin, of fabricating parts of the segment.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/06/26/french-media-analyst-philippe-karsenty-found-guilty-of-defamation-in-al-dura-hoax-case/

and Karsenty's reaction

Philippe Karsenty on Al-Dura Verdict: ‘A Dark Day for French Democracy and a Dark Day for the Truth’

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/06/26/philippe-karsenty-on-al-dura-verdict-a-dark-day-for-french-democracy-and-a-dark-day-for-the-truth-interview/

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Reply French Media Analyst Philippe Karsenty Found Guilty of Defamation in Al-Dura Hoax Case (Original post)
azurnoir Jun 2013 OP
Scootaloo Jun 2013 #1
Israeli Jun 2013 #2
Scootaloo Jun 2013 #3
Israeli Jun 2013 #4
azurnoir Jun 2013 #6
Israeli Jun 2013 #9
azurnoir Jun 2013 #10
Israeli Jun 2013 #13
azurnoir Jun 2013 #14
Israeli Jun 2013 #15
Mosby Jun 2013 #18
Israeli Jul 2013 #24
azurnoir Jun 2013 #5
shira Jun 2013 #8
azurnoir Jun 2013 #11
shira Jun 2013 #16
azurnoir Jun 2013 #19
shira Jun 2013 #20
azurnoir Jun 2013 #21
shira Jun 2013 #22
azurnoir Jul 2013 #23
shira Jul 2013 #25
azurnoir Jul 2013 #26
shira Jul 2013 #27
azurnoir Jul 2013 #28
shira Jul 2013 #29
aranthus Jun 2013 #17
pelsar Jul 2013 #30
Israeli Jul 2013 #32
pelsar Jul 2013 #34
Israeli Jul 2013 #35
pelsar Jul 2013 #36
shira Jun 2013 #7
Scootaloo Jun 2013 #12
shira Jul 2013 #31
Scootaloo Jul 2013 #33

Response to azurnoir (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 03:17 AM

1. The only question was whether he was criminally culpable or not

 

Even the court that overturned the initial verdict agreed that Karsenty's claims were libelous. They overturned on the basis of Karsenty's freedom of speech - using an argument similar to how in the US, "public figures" are held to a different standard with regard to protection from libel and slander. Basically that Karsenty was talking out of his ass, but that he's legally free to talk out of his ass if he wants to.

After that overturning was annulled, and now with France 2's court victory today, it looks like Karsenty os, in fact, criminally liable for his libelous speech. I'm not sure how the French court system works, but I imagine the tennis game of appeals is over now?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:28 AM

2. reminds me of ...

Barry Chamish ....

Basically that Karsenty was talking out of his ass, but that he's legally free to talk out of his ass if he wants to.


Ahh .. conspiracy theorists ... the game is never over for them Scootaloo.

Who killed JFK and Bobby Kennedy ?

... and Rabin and Anwar Sadat ?

does it really matter who killed them or who shot Mohammed al-Dura ?

their voices will go down in history as those that wanted this world of ours to be a better more peaceful place ... and who will remember Karsenty or Barry Chamish ?



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Response to Israeli (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 06:38 AM

3. Who killed Rabin? Oh that's EASY!

 

Shimon Peres did. Or rather, the T-100 cyborg assassin he keeps in his closet. Yeah, that's right, Yigal Amir had nothing do do with that, despite his own testimony, his brothers' testimony, the previous attempts they had planned, and of course the hundreds of witnesses. no, it was Shimon Peres out to take Rabin out with an untraceable robot assassin.



...At least so says the same guy who started this al-Dura conspiracy nonsense, Nahum Shahaf. Unfortunately a number of the, er, "usual suspects" among the posters here couldn't quite get it through their head that this guy is like the Israeli Alex Jones or David Icke or something, and just keep taking him at his word so long as he tells them what they already want to hear.

wasted potential, is how I see it.

And yeah, oh boy do I know about how conspiracy theory works. I got to play "the skeptic" for about a decade over on Above Top Secret... Until the admins got sick of me trashing Ron Paul. Oh well!

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:15 AM

4. Nahum Shahaf or Barry Chamish ...

same same ... pair of lunatics .

Unfortunately a number of the, er, "usual suspects" among the posters here


No kidding ... let me guess .....

.... same ones that take Caroline Glick and Pamela Geller seriously ??

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Response to Israeli (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:31 PM

6. and where is Barry Chamish now?

why he moved to the US and has his very own radio show :faceplant:

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:03 PM

9. news to me ...

better there than here .

Americans tend to be more gullible than we are ....of course that gets balanced out by all the religious right wing Americans that immigrate to here

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Response to Israeli (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:10 PM

10. he was Canadian in the first place though and we have all the home grown loonies we need right here

but I guess your owed one 'cause it was the US that 'gifted' Israel with Meir Kahane

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 04:11 PM

13. Meir Kahane ...

the JDL , Baruch Goldstein , most of the inhabitants of Hevron , Yaakov Teitel .... the list is endless .
You owe us more than one.

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Response to Israeli (Reply #13)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 12:59 PM

14. ya know you're right

I remember a few years back my SO and I were watching a documentary about the settlements and the West Bank in general, there was a segment about Amona, and he commented to me that it seemed the demonstrators from the settlement all spoke really good English, sounded like American English at which point I had to tell him that's because most of them are from America, surprised him.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 28, 2013, 05:20 PM

15. not surprised he was surprised....

even Clinton cant handle the truth ... blame it on the Russians

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3958611,00.html

to be honest its not fair to blame any country .... in my HO you can blame most of it on religious fanatics ..... just a fact that most of our religious fanatics are from America.

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Response to Israeli (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 02:32 PM

18. The Russians are a major part of the right wing bloc

The Russians are not religious fanatics, but are super nationalistic, almost jingoistic.

It's certainly true that there are a lot of American orthodox in Israel, just like it's true that there are around 500,000 yordim in the US, who come here for the money.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 04:30 PM

24. yup they are Mosby

and nobody is dening that ... certainly not me
but my point was that Clinton is denying the involvement of the American orthodox or at the very least ignoring them ....and blaming it all on the Russians .
Why do you think he did so ?

You have a problem with " yordim " following the American dream Mosby ?
How many of them have committed terrorist attacks on the level of Baruch Goldstein and company ??

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:29 PM

5. overall the thing that struck me about Karsenty's supporters

was every 'new' theory from al Dura was 'martyred' by his own father to he never ever existed at all to you name it-the cry was that it was this false, antisemitic' blood libel that everyone's view of Israel was based on, when in fact it happened 13 years ago, 'no one' figuratively speaking even remembered it, what kept reanimating it was Karsenty and his supporters

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 01:01 PM

8. Seems the rushes weren't admissible evidence...

 

...so without the rushes, Karsenty had no basis to make his claim. Apparently, he could only go by what was on the original France24 news report.

Not this...




So if Karsenty had waited for the rushes and then claimed France24's report was phony, he'd be in the clear.

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Response to shira (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:07 PM

11. well apparently as Karsenty waited until 4 years after the incident to start his case

there was little rush for the rushes

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 06:24 AM

16. "Everybody who has seen the evidence knows it's a hoax..."

 

“Everybody is very upset, because everybody who has seen the evidence knows it is a hoax. So when you see that the French judicial system is covering it up and even fining me, it is a disgrace.”


You're still unable to see any funny business in the rushes, aren't you? In fact, you'd probably still say Israel killed the boy, on purpose.

Surprise me...

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Response to shira (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 02:57 PM

19. ...

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 06:37 AM

20. Of course you still stick to Enderlin's initial France24 report.

 

Israel killed the child. No funny business or Pallywood going on.



I wonder if you truly believe that or just genuinely love bashing, slandering, and demonizing Israel even when you know the accusations are bullshit.

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Response to shira (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 02:00 PM

21. .....

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #21)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 03:14 PM

22. yawn...

 

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Response to shira (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:26 AM

23. There is no hate quite like demonising a dead child shira

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 10:05 AM

25. It's not demonization. France 2 lied...

 

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Enderlin lied when he said he cut the footage showing the death throes and agony of the child. French expert Journos said no such scenes exist.

When pressed about the trajectory of the bullets, the French experts also said Enderlin was just making shit up (e.g. bullets bouncing around the corner). They argue that the Israelis couldn't have shot the al-Duras, only the Palestinians.

France 2 also submitted only 18 of 27 minutes of rushes to the court.

Conclusion:

France 2 lied and they're hiding something. Propagandists like yourself pretend all is on the up-and-up and only loony conspiracists and rightwingers would "demonize" a dead child.

No one buys your phony, disingenuous concern.

Just more evidence that what you do here daily is based on smoke, mirrors, and lies.

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Response to shira (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 01:44 PM

26. and what about the almost 1400 Palestinian kids that have met their deads via IDF since?

will you attempt to justify or wash away those too?

BTW a French jury found Karsenty guilty

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 02:41 PM

27. Stick to al-Dura first. Enderlin lied & covered up...

 

...and you're pretending everything is straight up legit in his report.

Right?

I'll be waiting for that answer...

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Response to shira (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 03:31 PM

28. Not according to a French jury

and I do understand why you will not discuss the reality here 1400 is quite a big number to justify

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #28)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:46 PM

29. The French experts all called bullshit on Enderlin's claim that the boy...

 

...in the video was in agony, in his death throes, and died on camera.

Enderlin only provided 18 out of 27 minutes of the rushes.

======

These are facts and you're once again disingenuously claiming no funny business?

Really?

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Response to shira (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:57 PM

17. This makes no sense.

I realize that French law is different from the common law, but what it suggests is that truth doesn't matter in a libel action in France. Here in the US or in England, the truth would be a defense, even if Karsenty had not known of the rushes when he made his claim. They would still be admitted to show that his claim was true. Why were the rushes not admissible? Is there someone who is familiar with French law who could explain this?

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Response to aranthus (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 01:20 AM

30. what i understand...and its damn scary from a freedom of speech pov

...that you cant publicly claim a journalist is full of BS......its doesnt matter whether or not its true or not, doesnt matter what info you have or dont have, you simply can't claim an journalist did sloppy work(at best, at worst, as in this case, just lied).

as if they are a "protected class" where they can lie their head off and if called out on it, for whatever your reason, and you dont have proof....you are the guilty one.

now thats a good way to limit freedom of speech.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:56 AM

32. maybe the French courts did a little research on ...

Nahum Shahaf and Barry Chamish pelsar .... ????

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Response to Israeli (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 09:24 AM

34. freedom of speech is freedom of speech

limit one persons version you then have to right to limit some one elses......call it what you want it, censorship, hate speech, its all the same........ trying to force people to agree to what a certain government believes is the correct way of thinking/speaking and that is always wrong

the nazis, the skinheads, the conservatives, the progressives, the liberals, zionists, the tea party, the midgets, all have a right to think, believe, and speakout on those beliefs without any fear of retribution

thats the definition of freedom of speech and there should be no if ands or buts about it.
___

today you may agree with who gets the censorship, tomorrow with a different govt, your version of the truth may be determined to be Illegal...and then your going to protest about freedom of speech? Freedom of speech crosses all political lines, thats the concept.

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Response to pelsar (Reply #34)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 11:51 AM

35. Nahum Shahaf and Barry Chamish pelsar .... ????

somebody denied their freedom of speech ???

they are as free to express whatever crazy conspiracy theories they want ...

those that take them seriously are welcome to do so .

the rest of us are proud to be on their shit list :

http://972mag.com/best-day-of-my-life-making-it-into-the-jewish-s-h-i-t-list/75150/



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Response to Israeli (Reply #35)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 12:48 PM

36. the article was about the protecting journalists...

as i understood it, the french govt is protecting french govt journalists from mere articles that challenge their articles, by actually fining those that challange them (and have to go to court to prove their case).

thats restricting freedom of speech.

Nahum Shafaf, and Barry mean nothing to me, never did and only will mean something if their freedom of speech is challenged. In which case i will defend them.

Personally I dont care if they have a list, i've got lots of lists, mainly a shopping list on friday, sometimes a todo list, their lists means as much to me as my shopping lists.

conspiracy theorists? one mans conspiracy is another mans novel, is another mans belief.....and beliefs must be protected

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Response to azurnoir (Original post)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 12:53 PM

7. Where's the Coverage? Palestinian Terrorists use Journalists as Human Shields

 

It should come as no surprise to anyone who follows the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that Palestinian terrorists hide behind civilian human shields. You may have seen the video in which Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, Fathi Hammad, boasted:

For the Palestinian people death became an industry at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire Death, as you desire Life.


Even so, when a video surfaces of Palestinian terrorists firebombing Israeli Defense Forces while hiding behind journalists, you might expect the media to cover it; especially considering that the human shields in the incident are the colleagues and friends of the very reporters and editors ignoring the story. And yet… not a peep from the popular press.



This is not figurative. We’re not talking about terrorists taking over a media building and using it as a meeting place, or launching rockets from nearby, or painting a phony “TV” on the hood of a car transporting terrorists, or even being a terrorist who also takes pictures and writes propaganda – all of which Hamas operatives do. We’re talking about terrorists literally throwing firebombs while hiding behind journalists and using their bodies as shields. Human shields. Where’s the coverage?

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2013/06/wheres_the_coverage_palestinia_6.html

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Response to shira (Reply #7)

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 02:20 PM

12. While we're staying on-topic...

 

Do you like pie, Shira? What's your favorite kind? I'll bet it's rhubarb. I'm more of a boston cream pie fan, myself, but I guess you could rightly consider that a cake.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 05:36 AM

31. More anti-Israel media malfeasance. Now you know the connection

 

Last edited Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:18 AM - Edit history (1)

I suppose sticking to previous Pallywood hoaxes would've been best. Like this favorite of mine in which the dead comes to life!

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Response to shira (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 5, 2013, 07:45 AM

33. Upset that your blod-libeling, lying shitsack freind Karsenty didn't get off the hook?

 

Awww. Poor Shira. Don't worry, there's still plenty of lying piece of shit Zionist fakers for you to idolize. Maybe try for Robert Spencer?

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