Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumRichard Silverstein Calls Black Supporter of Israel ‘Negro Zionist,’ Says ‘Uncle Tom...
Richard Silverstein Calls Black Supporter of Israel ‘Negro Zionist,’ Says ‘Uncle Tom is Dancing for Joy’Here’s his Tweet:
Silverstein - a ‘Comment is Free‘ contributor through 2012 who, until now, was best known for his anti-Israel (and at times pro-Hamas) activism and his faux scoops - has now revealed himself to be bigoted towards black Americans as well. The term “Negro” stopped being used in America in the late 60s or early 70s, and the term “Uncle Tom“ of course is a horrible epithet used historically to accuse African-Americans of being subservient to whites, and betraying their own group by participating in systematic white racism.
As Valdary’s column about Butler had nothing to do with the issue of American racism, Silverstein’s ugly assault seems to have been motivated by his disgust at seeing a woman of color expressing support for Israel. Silverstein seems to have deleted the post from his Facebook account (though the Tweet is still there), but let the snapshots above serve as a reminder of the narrow-mindedness of some on the Left when confronted with information contradicting their anti-Zionist assumptions.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/02/23/richard-silverstein-calls-black-supporter-of-israel-negro-zionist-says-uncle-tom-is-dancin-for-joy/
Great "pro-Palestinian" activism there....really something to be proud of.
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King_David
(14,851 posts)And I for one would like to distance myself from this loser.
He speaks for himself only .
shira
(30,109 posts).....The only thing more racist and absurd than Silverstein’s initial statement is his dogged persistence in explaining why what he said wasn’t racist. Reading his justification for calling a Black woman an “Uncle Tom” without ever addressing the substance of her position is the epitome of racial prejudice. Yet, Silverstein doesn’t seem to see it that way, and (like a benevolent instructor) walks us all through Black history to show us our folly.
Silverstein’s racism and arrogance is apparent to everyone but him. And his actions raise the question: Why do Silverstein and his ilk feel so comfortable hurling racial slurs at Black people?
.....Increasingly, the attitude within the far-left, anti-Zionist camp is rife with arrogance and presumptuousness. And these traits are of course key ingredients in race bias and bigotry – few things are of greater offense to the racist than a person of color not knowing his or her place. The moment an African-American articulates an argument that does not reflect the accepted (read: white-approved) position, racist attacks and demonization ensue.
Never mind that I had substantive, well-researched answers to each of their queries, including detailed knowledge of Israel’s difficult African refugee crisis. Because I am Black, my support for Israel was simply seen as unacceptable — and my disinterest in their delineation of what political positions Black people are allowed to hold sparked fury.
Like Silverstein, my non-black detractors were incensed at my independence. Even their physical stance, five of them surrounding and hovering over me as I sat calmly in my chair, spoke to their perhaps unconscious yet pervasive belief that they ruled over me. These were the enlightened people who protested the State of Israel because of its so-called “imperialism,” “apartheid policies,” and “hatred for Black Africans,” and it was their duty to talk some sense into my ignorant black head. Basically, massa’ was not pleased.
These are the people my parents warned me about: Those who attack people of color (like Valdary) because of our audacity to learn about complex issues and form our own opinions – rather than simply reading from the approved script. Silverstein and my inquisitors are a reminder that, for some people, blacks and whites can get along just fine — as long as blacks act, think, and speak in accordance with the relevant stereotypes.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/07/anti-zionist-blogger-calls-black-israel-supporter-an-uncle-tom/#ixzz2vt1fLg6D
King_David
(14,851 posts)A small irrelevant racist twit.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Or is it considered progressive to have opinion pieces like 'The persistent and sympathetic failings of Wile E. Obama'?
shira
(30,109 posts)Aren't they?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Why is it that much of what you post here comes from RW sources?
shira
(30,109 posts)Must be painful for you to participate here.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I've got absolutely no idea what that outburst had to do with my post, where I pointed out that the site you linked to was a RW site that attacks Obama...
shira
(30,109 posts)As it is, you defend Maan.
Your problem therefore isn't with RW sites that attack Obama.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Which I don't 'rip' into Maan. The site you posted a link to, however, is clearly a RW website that peddles some real Obama-hate...
I'm still not understanding what the point of that weird post of yrs was. Y'know the one that said it must hurt me to post at DU. I've been posting here for over ten years and can't say it's hurt me once to post here...
shira
(30,109 posts)It must hurt you to post at DU because.......and try to keep up......nearly 100% of elected Democrats holding office today hold views on Israel that you see as rightwing, islamophobic, etc.
Ouch.
Since the American Democratic Party clearly doesn't speak for you on Israel, then riddle me this one: Who would you rather see working on I/P other than Democrats?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Like I said, it's as credible a source on the conflict as Ha'aretz is and I consider both sources to be more on the LW side of things than some of the stinky sources you've posted links to here. You seem to think something is LW if you agree with it, and RW if you disagree with it. That's not how it works..
Huh? I don't even know what nearly 100% of elected Democrats think on the conflict, and really don't have that much interest in it, which is why I don't know. But I am curious to know what views of nearly 100% of elected Democrats are ones that are RW or Islamophobic. I suspect you won't be forthcoming with that, but it's worth a try. I'm heading off to bed in a minute so you've got all night to come up with something...
And why would you think any American politician regardless of their political persuasion would be speaking for me on anything? If they did, I'd find it a bit weird. Just a bit of a head's up, but I'm not an American. I thought I'd mention that as you may never have bothered to click on DUers profiles or ventured into GD or anywhere like that where most people know I'm not American...
shira
(30,109 posts)It's a state rag that's against every progressive, leftwing value in the book. There's absolutely nothing progressive/liberal or leftwing about Maan or Abbas' Fatah/PA that runs the rag. Their antisemitism is one thing, but they're also terribly anti-gay, anti-women, warmongering, etc.
Interesting that you're here strongly defending Maan, while trying to accuse others of racism.
It's hard to find even one Democrat in power who supports BDS, calls Israel apartheid, colonial, for one state, IDF sucks, etc. They consider your views extreme and outside the mainstream. Yet here you are on a Democratic Party forum. Weird...
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)showing clearly where Ma'an is in your words: racist, anti-semitic, anti-gay, anti-women and war mongering.
But I do make clear my request with this rule: the articles must be clear in their bigotry, and not just because you say they are.
One article doesn't cut it.
shira
(30,109 posts)I posted this one a while back about a very antisemitic article from Ma'an...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113430118
Ma'an admitted to it and removed the article due to PMW's efforts...
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=8517
If that's not bad enough, they then followed that fiasco up by publishing an article denying the Holocaust.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113431278
Let's start there.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)retraction with the following...
It was written by one of the [news] agency's readers, Sawsan Najib Abd Al-Halim, and not by one of Ma'an's journalists, writers or editors.
[The article has been removed] because it contains incorrect information and hateful content that are unjustified and which do not in any way represent the opinion of Ma'an or its editorial policies. It was published during the war against Gaza (i.e., in response to Hamas rockets, Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense targeted the terror infrastructure in the Gaza Strip), and [Ma'an's] staff was unable to examine it thoroughly because of the workload caused by the war. [The article] was published in the articles' section intended for [submissions by] readers.
However, Ma'an will re-examine the policy of publishing readers' articles to avoid the occurrence of similar mistakes."
[Ma'an News Agency's website,
posted Jan. 30, 2013, accessed Jan. 30, 2013]
It appears like Ma'an made an admission of a proof reader posting an article and Ma'an's removal of it along with a retraction.
It also appears that Ma'an removed the second article so I'm not sure where you are going with this?
So there are no links to the original articles, but there is proof of retractions: suggesting that the content was not what Ma'an wanted or expressed as worthy of remaining on their site.
Do you have any more phantoms to chase?
More...
Apparently it was pointed out to you that this article (second one) was taken down almost as fast as it went up.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/15/palestinians-need-to-learn-the-lesson-on-antisemitism.html#url=/articles/2013/02/15/palestinians-need-to-learn-the-lesson-on-antisemitism.html
And yet you go on with the myth that it was Ma'an's doing.
From the Daily Beast:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/15/palestinians-need-to-learn-the-lesson-on-antisemitism.html#url=/articles/2013/02/15/palestinians-need-to-learn-the-lesson-on-antisemitism.html
Having said that, it’s important to note that in its response to al-Shami’s post, PMW omitted or failed to obtain some relevant facts, most importantly that the post appeared in a subsection of Ma’an’s opinion pages reserved for the reading audience—sort of a long-form letters-to-the-editor section—and was not written by anyone on staff at Ma’an. The employee who allowed the post to appear was, of course, on Ma’an’s staff, and anyone who oversees the publication of vicious Holocaust denial (whether glorified letter-to-the-editor or not) certainly deserves censure. Yet it’s an important distinction to make.
Furthermore, PMW suggests a kind of duplicity on Ma’an’s part by noting that al-Shami’s post “was posted on Ma'an's Arabic website and not on its English site,” without also clarifying (or, possibly, knowing) that none of Ma’an’s opinion pieces appear in English translation. There’s no case-by-case decision to keep certain material from English-reading eyes; opinion pieces are exclusively in Arabic.
shira
(30,109 posts)Ma'an, an independent Palestinian news agency, has published a viciously Antisemitic article depicting Jews as the force of evil in the world, fulfilling their goals of world subjugation, according to the plan in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The article contends that Jews "are planning means to take over the reins of world politics, by spreading organized destruction throughout the countries." It blames the Jews for the French and Russian revolutions and well as other civil wars, initiated by Jews in order to weaken countries of the world, in order to rule over them. The Ma'an op-ed describes the Jewish tactic:
From an article by Abd Al-Halim Abu Hajjaj,
Ma'an, independent Palestinian news agency,
accessed March 11, 2014, posted Feb. 11, 2014
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=10900
Find me another reputable, credible, mainstream news source that allows this sort of shit. Name one. The Israeli Arutz-Sheva is about as bad as it gets in Israel, but you'll never find anything closely resembling the same kind of anti-Arab, anti-Muslim hate that you'll find in Maan WRT Jews.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)something else?
I understand that it must be terribly hard for you to focus while choking on your own bile, but neither of the first two examples are viable.
1) Ma'an made a retraction since none of their writers authored the story. It was authored by a proof reader.
2) The second article was a letter to the editor; which was also pulled.
So what happened to #3?
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)tucked securely under your pillow.
I asked for you to post to the things in Ma'an you have accused them of doing, and yet you posted to another website.
Apparently Ma'an made a retraction for the first article...not written by their writers by the way, which shows that they are able to police themselves, and pulled the second from their letters to the editor section.
So now why don't you pull yourself up, dust yourself off and post something from Ma'an that fits your accusations of bigotry: like you mentioned at the beginning of your chicken run.
It must not be that hard if Ma'an is the hate-filled news site you say they are, right?
shira
(30,109 posts)You believe that unless original Arabic links to Ma'an are presented, it's as though they do not exist? Or that they once did, but Ma'an was good enough to take down those links once exposed?
And if a link isn't supplied to the latest Ma'an anti-Jew hate rant from just this week (March 2014), it's as though that link doesn't exist either? We can pretend Ma'an learned its lesson from the first 2 episodes?
Am I warm?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)removed the articles and made retractions once they realized what had happened.
No, shira, you're just dead cold...as usual.
shira
(30,109 posts)It's not enough that they didn't learn their lesson twice already? Why do they keep allowing for such vile hatred?
What other credible, reputable news source has done this, and 3X already just in the past 15 months?
How many more chances does Ma'an get until you find the publication bigoted and racist?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Fail.
shira
(30,109 posts)Author: Abdul-Halim Abuhaggag
Revealed the Protocols of the Elders of Zion - wicked sons of Zion - about their plans to subjugate the people and control the world; That masterminding the means to capture the reins of world politics, and the disclosure of systematic sabotage of the country and the corruption of the subjects captured through banking and jewelers, and control of the wealth of financial and natural resources and labor, and through Control of the media and the arts and directed destination that serve their purposes and achieve their goals. has been these protocols very secret, they are mostly the minutes of meetings and instructions issued by the organizations of Light Jewish (members of Masonic lodges), which met with members twelve - the wealthy the powerful - at the invitation of Mayer Bauer ( Rothschild's grandfather), and under his leadership the year 1773 in Frankfurt, Germany, and addressed to the Masonaa Grand Orient in France, but equally willing to unfold these protocols the year 1785, when what has been tuned, accompanied by a cavalry that - is said to be - injured by lightning sentenced him, on his way from Frankfurt and Paris. Vankhevc her intentions, plans and methods of invisible hands of the Illuminati group moneylenders Jews (members of the Jewish Masonic associations). The leaders of the associations of the Jewish Masonic conspiracies planning, and design of structures, coups and revolutions, so deceiving the people and control the money in their hands to mark the Ihtkronh heart regimes. They began by creating the atmosphere and prepare the appropriate circumstances to ignite the flames of the French Revolution, Fahioa people to stir up violence and riots devastating all over France, and prepared what they could of the means and methods to reach their goals success Almsttharin in their revolt against the French monarchy, They declared all its gleaming, and invented a slogan attractive raised him people: liberty, equality and fraternity. It was to them what they wanted in 1789 AD. Then followed by the Russian Bolshevik revolution in 1917 the complex planning of Antioch, who designed the Jewish faith atheistic material and drawing dimensions, and instructed to Karl Marx year 1848 left the Communist Manifesto (Manifest), which was under the supervision of the Freemasons Jews who were deceived by the people, by the people Vankhaddat. And was preceded and followed these two revolutions revolutions and coups and civil wars bloody many, broken and was followed by acts of violence and chaos subversive under the name of freedom and democracy that deceived them (demagogues) also. has managed to Jewish Freemasons to reach their goals, it has to them to control the world through their means of monopolizing banking Finance and owning gold and natural resources and artificial, and control of water and food, as well as sabotaging the country's economy to remain nations Consumer unproductive to remain under control, and so they remain in need of them and to their wheat and money that you take their governments, including through long-term loans, the benefits of progressive asthmatic cumbersome, not Tkdraly repaid. They want to draw a geographical map - a new policy for the entire world as determined by associations Masonic Judaism in favor of the Zionist organizations, and the Sedition and export sectarian conflicts, ethnic and ignite civil wars, Fasttaawa to create new states at the expense of stable states, division and demarcation of a new international, or military invasion armed , or looted homelands and the displacement of people, as happened to Palestine and the people of Palestine, or civil wars and coups rulers Almopoin, to keep the country in a cycle of violence and fragmentation, and in the vortex power struggle. has been a cultural invasion of the most dangerous on the peoples characterized by retardation and intellectual decay of social awareness, has taken center stage these people from the cultural manifestations of Western Beacon them and curriculum, imitate their owners in ways of thinking and in the lifestyles of uncritical Augrplh, Vtamém bright lights, and fall prey to ignorance and backwardness. Felicmah me the reader that Ojtzi some paragraphs of the First Protocol to standing on the thought diabolical wicked sons of Zion, and see How was the so-called (self-rule) and the way of their methods Holding the spirit of freedom, and a means tricky to hunt the rebels and imprisoned and Tsfidhm, Wolf sling ropes around their necks; prelude to bury the spirit of independence in them, although the autonomy description of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are testimony to slag intentions, and the best proof of our ignorance and stupidity. Now read with me, and compare these thoughts diabolical and the practical application on the ground of the Palestinian after Oslo, they say, in the first protocol: "... The idea of freedom is unattainable for people, it is not those who know how exercised wisely and patiently., You if you recognized the people rule Self for a limited time, it does not soon to Tgchah chaos, and disrupted his affairs, and this moment onwards intense rivalry and conflict between groups and the masses, Vttfaqm differences until you fall battles between the classes, and divided the people on the same within a split lead him to the multiple conflicts. At the center of these disorders Differences erupt flames Fathriq governments, if their stack ashes, and removes the impact of all the meridian., and these governments are doomed to decay, either by Advent itself uprisings eating each other from the inside, or towed these civil wars to fall into the clutches of an external enemy, in case they get in her death , Vngdo incapable of piety to advance to dismiss itself counteract market failure, and that is the right moment for us when they happen in our grasp, and then comes the role of the authority of the capital, and all the money in our hands, shall be then ready, and drawing power of capital to those new governments conducive to the fall , extends her invisible strand (or promises), unavoidable her relate to him voluntarily or involuntarily to the urgent need for money, the do it plunged to the bottom, but do not sink in the drafters inevitably. "A. His text. This is the scenario Zionist who dish on the Palestinian people in the context of self-governing authority in the West Bank and Gaza, nor comment on it, it is clear through the actual practice and negative results. then says Protocol I in another paragraph: "nothing to do with policy morality at all, and do not meet them. The governor, who controls his actions considerations of morality right there can be a political success in any way, nor could lend him stability over the throne at all. " and read also in the following paragraph what Ikhttonh to the rhythm of the people in the swamp of alcohol and immorality for easy control and escorted to doom, They say: "The people of Algueyem (other nations of non-Jews) are blessed to dive into the quagmire of addiction to alcohol. The youth Algueyem are the ones who enjoy alcohol mascara that they may add foolish and stupid to Astgrachm in classical studies that are not in vain since a very young age, but Anzlagahm to the various manifestations of unethical behavior that provided them with our customers from the teachers and served and jams in homes owned by their rich, and at the hands of the Jews who have to hire them to manage their business, and our women at the hands of Jewish women in the houses of prostitution in the entertainment and movie theaters, where the playing members of the overwhelming majority of the peoples of Algueyem. At the conclusion of this list was added to the so-called them the title (ladies) or (owners saloons) to hunt their boyfriends enamored of them, Tiein about corruption and luxury and immorality of elders Men governments and influential in their own people. " and then talk about the outbreak and their methods destructive communities safe for corrupting the peoples where they say ".... and we must build on what we have said not hesitate to use fraud and bribery, brokering, and not Nanf of treason when he brings us closer to reaching our goals, and in the worlds of politics should not hesitate one at all in the seizure of the property of others in order to humiliate them and subjecting us." Then brag about, saying: "... Since ages long ago we were - we Jews - the first of its instrument of words (liberty, equality, fraternity) to the suggestions of the mob at the time, but Erdduha like parrots since those days that have passed it ages ago, without Evgahoa sense, Mbddan so good World and stability .... and I've brought us those three words of freedom, equality and fraternity, brought to us by large numbers of people from all corners of the globe to join our ranks, thanks to our customers Almasobe eyes everywhere, in order to carry all the banner of our cause enthusiastically, while the same These three words are weevils that affects the bones and Algueyem dispel the well-being and stability, and delivered them and their composure and solidarity, leading to blow up their countries ab. " And finally admit: "The idea of freedom hollow has enabled us to convince the masses that their ruler is not only a supervisor at the Department of State, and a representative of the stakeholders in the country; any: a representative of the people, and then people can Akhalah from office in the same ease with which dislocated by the man his trademark ancient to cast them aside and replaces them gloves others. Such a possibility that has become available to us in order to Ngosai representatives of the people from their places in the government, has made the appointment is also in our hands and pledge our brand. " Dear Reader: I Achthena - we Palestinians - delicacy, paid the price dearly and heavy, and the long-awaited long, Kabdna for him too much, and Tgerana pains and sorrows, Fjana bread lying on a platter filled lies, they made in Oslo and Mayoh in Washington, and brought it to us from there through Balhawwadhar and Bawadi Arabic, and continue to lie to ourselves when launched voices of throats: The king is dead ... long live the king, did not shy away ashamed, while not inevitable shyness and modesty.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I've noticed you've got a habit of whenever you get picked up on posting from RW and/or bigoted sources that you immediately start attacking either the DUer who pointed it out or a source you hate. How about trying to stick to the topic of the OP? If yr confused, go back to the start of the thread and read it all again and try to focus...
Again I'll say HUH?? How would any American politician, let alone a Democrat, know what my views are? And while it's abundantly clear that while you know what my views are, given that I've had to repeatedly correct you when you claim my views are something they're not, that list you trotted out earns a zero out of five for factuality.
If yr ever honestly interested in knowing what my views actually are and repeating those views correctly, feel free to read back through the archives, or if yr too time-limited, I'll list them for you. But inventing what you claim to be other DUers views and throwing them around doesn't give anyone reading any hope that there's a desire on yr part for any sort of civil or honest discussion...
Oh, and as for making out I don't belong here at DU, here's a newsflash. I've been here since 2002, and unlike you, I participate in other forums and groups and on other topics. So, I'd suggest you quit coming out with that sort of silliness, coz it'll only end in grief...
shira
(30,109 posts)....rightwing as well. Let's at least agree that whether the outlet tilts right or not, that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the author's political views. Can we start there?
And let's go one further while we're at it. Even if the author is rightwing, what does that have to do with the substance of one of his/her arguments? Why can't we focus on the substance w/o going only all ad-hominem, ignoring the argument altogether?
Your views appear to be progressive/leftwing on just about everything NOT involving Israel. I'm not saying you don't fit in with American Democrats at all, just not with their views on Israel. Point me to one American Democrat in power today whose views on Israel at least come at least somewhat close to your own. If you can't, you'll have proven my point.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I mean here it is on display with Chloe Valdary. All of the "heroes" Zionists summon up seem to be tied to radical islamophobia (many are tied up in that nasty little "Obsession" movie) or they're wrapped up with homophobic nuts like John Hagee or Kenneth Meshoe (or they actually ARE John Hagee and Kenneth Meshoe) or their voices come from websites that openly promote John Bolton, Dore Gold, and the Koch Brothers.
And then to deflect from this you say "yeah well Democrats support Israel!" - yeah, so what, so do Republicans, and guess which party's trough your sources are slopping at? Remember the advisory board for The Israel Project?
It really doesn't matter if democrats trend towards some milquetoast variety of Zionism - All the talking points sound like they rolled down David Horowitz's large intestine. Which is unsurprising given he's a contributor to the algemeiner.
To put it bluntly, everything these people come up with is far more in alignment with the Republican party - pro-war, gay-hating, muslim-baiting, Jew-exploiting, fuck-the-UN, Jesus-is-a'coming, bomb-bomb-Iran, arabs-should-know-their-place, liberals-and-leftists-suck, preserve-our-ethnic-purity, because-Obama's-a-Marxist BULLSHIT.
shira
(30,109 posts)...are the problem with you. You're at DemocraticUnderground. Must suck that you see just about all elected Dems in power as rightwing racists.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I guess not, as you never seem to poke your head out of I/P and i can't suppose you spent your vacation perusing the site (I hear you found more interesting things to do over on another website, actually...)
Go spend twenty minutes reading stuff in general Discussion, then get back to me. I'll wait.
Back already? Okay. Did you notice something interesting about the positions of people on DemocraticUnderground.com? It's hard to miss... Specifically, the part where most DU'ers disagree quite a bit with the Democrats about an awful lot. There are a handful of people who proclaim that Democrats are always absolutely right about everything, but for the most part, everyone around here has some sort of disagreement.
As I've explained to your fellow "No really I'm a" Liberal Zionist David, the Democratic party is not a fascist party. Unswerving loyalty is not demanded nor expected.
Your second mistake is conflating bland platitudes about "supporting Israel" with an ideological commitment to Zionism, whether it be far-right or far-right-pretending-to-be-liberal. Most Democratic politicians support Israel like they support Taiwan. That is to say we're buddies and we'll help them out of some asshole starts something with them. It doesn't mean that these politicians buy into the agenda and ideology of our "buddies," though. Going back to Taiwan, Taipei maintains that it is the sole legitimate government of China. Well, you know, apparently support for Taiwan doesn't go that far, since we're in tight with Beijing.
There are of course, politicians who are committed to the Zionist ideology as such, and all the baggage that coems with it. Chuck "Strangle the Arabs" Schumer for example, is a democrat and a Zionist. Dov "beat that Muslim, kids!" Hikind is also a Zionist and Democrat. Joe "Bomb the shit out of them!" Lieberman was formerly a Democrat, until he lost a primary and stomped off to caucus with the Republicans as an independent. Great guy, that Joe. I'm sure there are others, but frankly most of the committed Zionist idealogues are, in fact, Republicans Shira.
And of course, none of this "BUT DER DEMUHKRATS IZ ZIONIST TOO!" covers the fact that you're sourcing a right-wing rag-hole, defending a wild-eyed gay-bashing Islamophobe like Valdary.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Will allow an endorsement or even a photo or handshake with anyone admitting to writing this post ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=57842
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Even if I had my head as far up Israel's ass as you do Dave, I've still got a lot on my plate that the democrats tend to dislike.
- I'm a socialist. More to the point i'm a left socialist - socialism for everyone, right now. THis extends to foreign affairs as well - debt owed to us by transitional nations should be forgiven, rather than acceuing interest; there's literally no way haiti, for example, can pay its debt to the US, and still have an economy. This also puts me in favor of single-payer health care, a living wage pegged to inflation, strong regulation on business, and a national bank. I also support at least partial nationalization of essential businesses such as water provision and energy.
No Democrat alive, with the possible exception of Dennis Kucinich, would shake hands and seek a photo-op with that.
- I do not regard Republicans, or conservatives in general, to be "our colleagues across the aisle," I find them to be walking, talking dangers to the betterment of mankind as a whole. I put up a big ol' post some while back about my time with the "natives" in the right wing, which led to my conclusion that they are driven not by belief or ideology, but by simple, unvarnished sadism. It's not two sides to the same coin, with them happening to be on the other side from me. I regard these people ot barely be above monsters, with hte only redemption being that maybe, someday, they'll change their minds and join those of us who aren't utter misanthropes.
Even Kucinich would not likely seek a photo op with someone who's happy to point at Boehner and mcConnel and say "you're scum driven by a desire to injure others for your own pleasure." But of course that IS exactly what they are.
- I work in a blue collar job that's not in any "cutting edge" fields, nor is it likely to ever be outsourced (I'm a chef.) I also don't make much money, so i can't toss in much money to a campaign. Why would any politician ever want to meet my hourly-wage-earning, can't-be-a-campaign-piece, punk ass anyway
But I'll bet I'm higher on the handshake-and-photo list than Chloe Valdary.
It's cute that you're still pissed that I pointed out exactly what you are.
King_David
(14,851 posts)None of my party--- The Democratic Party candidate/s would take a photo with you or even return your call or accept your endorsement .... No matter what your other sterling silver credentials may or may not be.
Just reread your thread and see we agree.
I especially agree with what you said about Republicans...
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'm pretty sure I'd be higher on the callback list than some idiot who constantly de-jews people for crimes like "being Mexican" or "disagreeing," and whose main source for current events and personal inspiration comes from Gay-hating freaks of nature like Chloe Valdary, John Hagee, and Kenneth Meshoe. Especially when it's all done as an effort to attack liberals and justify institutionalized racist policies and brutality against a ethnic underclass.
After all. The JDL and other fascist thugs aren't in any way affiliated with the national Democratic Party. But the lingering stink of national socialist parties might be interested in someone like that...
King_David
(14,851 posts)Show everyone and prove to us all I said what you "claim " I said ...
King_David
(14,851 posts)I would like to read that if you have a link?
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)
Israeli
(4,141 posts)...If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)
King_David
(14,851 posts)In fact the whole threads pretty interesting .
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Here, let me help you out, for those people who don't want to click your links:
Zionism is not, and never will be even a remotely liberal ideology. This doesn't change even if otherwise liberal people uphold it - it just makes those people bad at being liberals in that respect. That the only defense you have ever mounted for the concept of "liberal zionism" is that a political party in the US pays lip service to it on occasion really just reinforces this point I'm making Dave. If it were liberal in any way you could defend it on those merits rather than with an internally weak bandwagon fallacy. But it's not, and you can't.
Remember that every time you repost the link to that post of mine, you are doing so as someone who has asserted that Mexicans can't be Jews - and that Jews who differ from you politically aren't really Jews either - who argues for the mass deportation of African refugees to Uganda (and also for the removal of medical aid to Uganda's gay population, just when they need it the most) and who constantly rallies in support of any violence or indignity dealt to Arabs. Oh yes - and your tawdry love affairs with homophobic christian fundamentalist pastors.
And you still haven't mounted a coherent defense of the ideology that spawns all of that in your head. Except for pointing at the Democratic party and going "But... but... but...!"
King_David
(14,851 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Sadly you've deleted your lickspittle posts in praise of Kenneth Meshoe.
Somewhere out there is your insistence that the Neturei Karta aren't "real Jews." I remember chiding you for this, since they certainly are, even if they're otherwise gross. As you can see, you've covered these guys a lot, so the exact series of posts is a little tough to find
You also deleted your advocacy of stripping medical aid to Uganda. You've since completely failed to address that issue, or the issue of Israel planning to deport Africans to said country. Perhaps because Israel really doesn't give a flying fuck about gay people unless they cna be exploited against palestinians, and wherever Israel leads, you follow.
And of course, here you are in a thread at least partially about Chloe Valdary, who has all sorts of interesting things to say about gays and Jews and not a peep from you, except to whimper about someone attacking her.
You're a fucking mess, David. I'd strongly suggest going home to that "organization" you're a member of,and trying to find some new arguments from a learned mentor.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)I think people realize that when an OP is posted you do not author that piece, instead it is written by someone else.
And a link is always provided.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)you said out of context...your words are all there, in context.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Oh please Mr. , Quote MY words....please , in context or out....go for it ... peleeeeez
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts) Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)But, it's all there. Except for the posts you deleted, of course.
I suggest you take Brian Cohen's sage advice on the situation you find yourself in.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)He was telling the world I am a Jew and I am part of these people..
Because it is so important for those bigots in the ASA that voted to Boycott Jewish Academia that they could say...'Hey we have a Jew with us'....and he gladly went along with it....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=54382
King_David
(14,851 posts)He was using the fact that he was Jewish to give the ASA bigoted cause " the gravitas " they desired .
So ?
What "dirt" exactly do you think you have on me ?
Are you returning to the bully method of conversation with myself that Oberliner described and you have done so well in avoiding for the last 6 months ?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)You asked for a link to where you'd mocked someone, you were given the link. You said you didn't write any of the posts in the links given to you. I showed you the post in the thread where you'd done what you wanted to see a link for.
How on earth is that bullying? And for the record, I've never bullied you....
King_David
(14,851 posts)I have enjoyed the last 6 months of 'civil '
King_David
(14,851 posts)That all I got to say,
Besides the straw grasp...
LOL
King_David
(14,851 posts)ardent Zionists as a group.
I learnt this in Israel at age 16 when all the Golah schools send their kids from Hebrew school to study together for 6 months. Math Science Hebrew Biology .(not G-d)
King_David
(14,851 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Where you defend someone saying that they hate Muslims. I linked to the post you replied to, as linking at DU2 is a bit wonky and the entire thread doesn't appear...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x358855
King_David
(14,851 posts)Gay Jewish Zionists .
So much so that you going searching on DU 2 to find threads in them ?
LOL
This appraisal of The Jewish National Project was from DU3 and only a few months ago.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=57842
The rest of the threads pretty interesting too .
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I don't give a fuck who or what someone is. If they say they hate Muslims, then they're an Islamophobe.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I am flattered at the fact my posts are bookmarked.
I am that formidable?
Thanks.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I guess they all must be flattered at the fact you'd bookmark and post links to their posts...
Formidable? That's not the word I'd use to describe defending someone who said they hate Muslims.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I must wonder at what staggering amounts of bullshit are piled around either end of this one.
I would suggest Silverstein read "Uncle Tom's Cabin." Calling someone an "Uncle Tom" isn't just racist (much less coming from a white dude, I mean really?) but is magnificently ignorant all on its own.
Edit: Didn't take much checking.
Turns out, Chloe Valdary had gone on a nasty little rant of her own, attacking prof. Judith Butler as a "vile anti-semite" and asserting that Israelis who refuse military service are filled with “psychopathic self-abhorrence.” - that is, refuseniks are self-hating Jews. Which coming as it does from a black christian American really does lessen whatever impact Silverstein ginned up with his retort (though still, he should have been the better person.)
Valdary is also a darling of such organizations as AIPAC, CAMERA, and StandWithUs. She works for Dumisani Washington and the Institute for Black Solidarity With Israel. Washington is a disciple of Rev. John Hagee and IBSI is closely affiliated with Hagee's CUFI organization. Valdary also appears to be one of those weird evangelical Christians who believes they are more Jewish than actual Jews (which I suppose is why she feels entited to accuse jews of being race traitors and the like.)
I can't say I know much about this Silverstein fellow - I'm thumbing through his blog at the moment - but I would really advise against Chloe Valdary being the flag you guys rally around.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)He's a great person, though I disagree with him on some things and agree on others. It is kinda amusing to see him attacked by writers who aren't squeaky clean when it comes to racism or bigotry...
There's a bit of a tendency here to have some sort of regular Richard-hate-fest. They always say the same things and it's almost like Groundhog Day to watch it come around like clockwork. I always think to myself that it's kind of telling that folk who aren't interested enough to say anything critical of Israel when it kills Palestinian civilians can work themselves into a frenzy over one rather inconsequential internet blogger. They've clearly got their priorities worked out!
shira
(30,109 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)When someone says 'racist rants', I start to remember a thread here where there was a very spirited defense of Ethiopian women being sterilised...
I didn't realise you knew Richard. In fact, I know that you don't and have never ever talked to him. See, I do, and he is a great person. Try and wrap yr mind round that...
shira
(30,109 posts)And I never defended any racism. I questioned the story and it turns out I was right. Haaretz was forced to retract and modify later.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)I don't even know what Uncle Tom is so I've got not fucking idea.
I'm curious to know why yr so fixated with Richard, yet defend to the hilt actual bigots like Itmar Marcus (for those reading that's the guy who participated in the making of an Islamophobic film and hangs out with the likes of Pamela Geller)..
shira
(30,109 posts)Why the deflections?
Are you defending his racism?
I questioned the Ethiopian story from the start and I was right. Haaretz retracted. Sorry to disappoint you...
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)First line. Read it over and over again till it starts to dawn on you.
And you did support the racism against the Ethiopian refugees, so yr the last person to be lecturing others about racism...
btw, is someone paying you a dollar per mention of the word 'deflecting' tonight? There should have been something written into the contract that you only get paid once you understand what words yr using mean and use them in the correct context...
shira
(30,109 posts)...to deflect from it, when you attempt to call into question other people's alleged racism instead.
Meanwhile you hypocritically accuse others (like me) of defending racism.
Let's pause and consider the irony, okay?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Here. In order to ensure you see it I'll repost it...
Is there something about that answer you claimed I'd never given that turns it invisible when you attempt to read my posts?
There's nothing hypocritical about bringing up yr performance in those threads about the Ethiopian refugees. Unless yr calling me a racist for some bizarre reason only yr aware of. Because if I were a racist, it would be hypocritical to point out someone else's racism, wouldn't it?
shira
(30,109 posts)n.
usage: This term is used with disparaging intent and is perceived as highly insulting. Though usually used of a black person, it occasionally refers to a person of any race who exhibits overly deferential behavior, esp. a female.
—n.
Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. (a contemptuous term used to refer to a black person who is regarded as being abjectly servile or deferential to whites.)
Silverstein attacked Valdary for being a black supporter of Israel. He didn't go after the substance of her articles. Richard has done this with gays as well.
Imagine attacking someone gay who supports Palestinians. Or someone black who supports Palestinians. Only for being gay or black, nothing else.
Get it?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)in fact there's quite another term applied to Black Woman who are seen as overly subservient to Whites
but perhaps to find out what it is ask someone who's Black..........
shira
(30,109 posts)@cvaldary accused me of implying she's "house slave," which is pretty much what she is in relation 2 Israel Lobby except she's paid.
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@weinstein_g I called her "Negro Zionist" and "Uncle Tom." She's no slave coz she's paid 2 do what she does. Also, she's a willing flunky.
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You've never seen this applied to a woman, but Silverstein did it and called her a house slave to boot.
Now I challenge u to defend that crap.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)however much like I do not make judgements from cherry picked quotes such as an 11 second video, I don't make them from single snap shot tweets, albeit Silverstein went a bit OTT there, I'd luv to see the entire conversation
because I've seen single quotes taken from a heated exchange and presented as though they came out of the blue
King_David
(14,851 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Valdary's hardly a saint for her part, but Silverstein should have been the better person. Or at least used the proper epithet ("rented negro" is what he's looking for, if he's going to go this route.)
Kinda looks like two assholes butting heads, at the end of the day.
That said. What's with all the gay Jewish posters being so eager to rally around an "activist" like Valdary who asserts that the Jews killed Jesus, god hates the gay, that Jews who refuse military service are race traitors, and that being gay is a lifestyle choice comparable to pedophilia?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Yes exactly right.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Rallying for the right-wing fundamentalist Gay-hating, more-jewish-than-actual-Jews nutjob.
Again.
Some time back, I would have asked you, "David, oh buddy oh pal, how did this happen... again?"
But it's not really a mystery at this point. Sadly, per the standards of DU, I have to keep feigning surprise and wonderment at how this keeps happening, from the same people, time and time again. And again. And again.
shira
(30,109 posts)The OP, as well as the article by Dumisani Washington, is less about Valdary than it is about the racism that permeates the Israel-bashing, BDS supporting collective. THAT is what is at issue here.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 15, 2014, 10:13 AM - Edit history (2)
You get very confused about what an OP says or states not what the person posting it says and who posts OPs.
The name of the poster posting an OP generally is attached on the left side of the post ( except on mobile devices)
brush
(53,764 posts)Uncle Tom can be applied to a man or woman.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Get it?
I get it. It's just like attacking someone Arab who supports Palestinians. Or someone Muslim who supports Palestinians. Only for being Arab or Muslim, nothing else.
So you honestly believe a homophobic person like that Valdary could possibly only be attacked because she's black? Just from the little I've seen of her, I'm seeing a whole lot she can and should be attacked for...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Dumisani Washington via Valerie Carter Washington
CNN, MSNBC, NYT, HuffPost...they can all get a life. They've been the propaganda wing of this administration from Day 1. Now they're pissed that they don't have the access they once had and are trying to act like journalists. Too late. Thanks for nothing...
CNN Bombshell: CIA Personnel in Benghazi Silenced with Threats to Their Families by Obama Regime
ijreview.com
https://www.facebook.com/dumisani.washington/posts/10201724580608503
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Agreed .
Israeli
(4,141 posts)ref : " I can't say I know much about this Silverstein fellow - but I would really advise against Chloe Valdary being the flag you guys rally around. "
Good advice .
shira
(30,109 posts)Do you think she had it coming to her, based on her views?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Do you think comparing homosexuality to pedophilia is a good thing?
Do you endorse launching accusations of people being "race traitors"?
Goes god hate gay people?
When i tell you "you don't want to rally around this person," Shira, you should fucking listen. It's bad enough that you love that guy who claims that "diaspora Judaism is like masturbation" and provide us content from Caroline f'ing Glick, to say nothing of raving homophobe Kenneth meshoe (At least you have the guts to let your posts stay!) but really... Just 'cause Valdary hates herself some Palestinians doesn't mean she's actually on your side. Think of the Zionist advocacy of the English Defense League
shira
(30,109 posts)Accusing all christians of holding offensive views is as prejudiced as accusing all Zionists of holding obnoxious views.
Show me where she attacks:
a) Jews for killing Jesus
b) Homosexuals
c) Palestinians for no other reason than they're Palestinians
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Earlier this evening I decided to go on a google fact-finding mission and came across this. At first I thought she wasn't a homophobe when I read it, but then realised the first part was written by a left-wing writer and hers was the second part, which I'm posting an excerpt from below...
Given the apostle Paul’s explicit condemnation of homosexuality in letters he wrote and the consensus among religious scholars that Paul was inspired by Christ to write such letters, apropos of the question of homosexuality, Christ was not a supporter.
But it should be noted that just because a comedian — who has had no formal study in the history and culture of the theology in question– is funny, does not mean his words have merit. They do not.
To say that a person chooses to be gay, is portrayed as being ignorant by my colleague merely because he disagrees with that position. There is no scientific study that has definitively concluded that being gay is inherent.
It was never implied that homosexual persons chose or desire suicide over not being gay. But Mike contends that it is, so it follows that if Person A does something and people disagree with it, voice their opinions against said actions, or persecute him/her for it, etc, then it means that what Person A is doing is not a choice.
If Person A is an old man and has an odd attraction for six year olds, and people voice their opinions against said actions, persecute him/her for it, etc. then obviously being a pedophile is not a choice.
Mike already affirmed this when he said, “we can[not] actively decide whom we are attracted to.”
Therefore the pedophile cannot help this either, right?
http://driftwood.uno.edu/the-spew-chick-fil-a-or-nay/
From what I could see of her views on the conflict, it's all God driven evangelical crap and the Palestinians don't exist as a people and she appears to be really into the West Bank is part of Israel thing. There was also a fair bit of lecturing Jews who don't agree with her because apparently Chloe seems to think all Jews should all think the same way and the ones who don't just aren't as enlightened as her on Judaism and Zionism. But it's all okay, coz Chloe mentioned several times that she really, really, really, really loves Jews so much she could burst with all that love. Plus her writing style left me, the reader, feeling as though I was navigating my way through a bowl of really glumpy and thick porridge. It's pretty crap...
She's definitely not someone for anyone to admire and seems to be along the lines of that Hagee guy, but having said that, there's absolutely no excuse for using a racial slur against her. In her case, I think calling her an imbecilic homophobe would have been just fine...
shira
(30,109 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)On that note, I might turn in for the night. Night all!
shira
(30,109 posts)Ignore the goofy, videogame graphics. Good song. I liked the title of the video when I googled this. Very fitting IMO.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Started off a bit slow, but by halfway through it I was really enjoying it. Thanks for posting it...
btw, I'm predicting our next apocalyptic moment of agreeing on something won't come along till at least 2023, so you've got lots of time to top that song
King_David
(14,851 posts)Interblog rivalry.
Small time 'provincial' insignificant politicking.
Looks like his blog is based in Israel tho and Silverstein's in the USA.
Israeli
(4,141 posts)" Interblog rivalry " .
One supports the Republicans and the other the Democrats .
One is Right wing and the other Left .
" Looks like his blog is based in Israel tho and Silverstein's in the USA. "
true , but most of those that write for Israelcool are recent immigrants from Australia , UK and USA . ... which is probably why its in English .
More info :
" The Jewish and Israel Blog Awards announced its winners on 7th February. Despite promising to 'showcase and increase awareness of the community's vast spectrum of bloggers', dissenting, left-wing or even moderately liberal sites were scarce among the nominees. This was perhaps unsurprising, since the awards were sponsored by the Jerusalem Post and the right-wing blog israellycool.com, but some progressive bloggers have taken to their keyboards to challenge the bias and the inclusion of anti-Arab hate sites.
Leading the charge is Richard Silverstein's prolific blog, Tikun Olam. He writes: 'Derek (Fattal, Jerusalem Post internet services director) can make the claim that it's a democratic selection process. But only because the nominees and those who nominate them are a self-selected group of hard-right pro-Israel bloggers.' "
Source : http://danielsieradski.com/press/jewishsocialist.htm
King_David
(14,851 posts)Well let's hope that supports not reciprocated .
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)..and focus on what Richard said. Someone I trust and like has explained to me the Uncle Tom thing. I like Richard and this is the first time I've seen him talk like that. I hope it's the last time and he does apologise for it. Calling an African-American an Uncle Tom or a Negro is totally unacceptable, no matter how heated the twitter shit-fight was.
shira
(30,109 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2014/07/07/israeli-police-plant-rumor-that-palestinian-murder-victim-was-gay-victim-of-honor-killing/
Unfortunately, the vast majority of anti-zionists feel the same way as Silverstein & strongly support Hamas' so-called "resistance".
cali
(114,904 posts)the source is a revolting right wing one. What else should one expect from the OP. Nevertheless, such a comment should be condemned unequivocally by all posters here.
that simple for me.
shira
(30,109 posts)….the Israel haters won't do it.
Silverstein justifies Hamas terror, but that won't be condemned either. Practically the entire anti-zionist BDS movement defends Hamas' right to terrorize Israelis, but this can never be acknowledged, much less condemned.
