U.S. could free Israeli spy in deal to save peace talks: source close to talks

[Eugene]

Source: Reuters

U.S. could free Israeli spy in deal to save peace talks: source close to talks

JERUSALEM Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:49pm EDT

(Reuters) - An Israeli spy serving a life sentence in the United States and groups of Palestinian prisoners could be freed under an emerging deal to salvage Middle East peace talks, sources close to the negotiations said on Monday.

The sources, who spoke as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry prepared to meet Israeli and Palestinian leaders, said under the proposed arrangement that Jonathan Pollard, a former U.S. Navy analyst caught spying for Israel in the 1980s, could be released by mid-April.

In addition, Israel would go ahead with a promised release of a fourth group of Palestinians, among the 104 it pledged to free in a deal that led to the renewal of peace talks last July. Another group of jailed Palestinians would also go free - and the peace talks would be extended beyond an April 29 deadline, the sources said.

(Reporting by Jeffrey Heller, Editing by Allyn Fisher-Ilan)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/31/us-israel-palestinian-talks-idUSBREA2U17L20140331

[Scootaloo]

1. I find it amazing, that we must bribe Israel, so that Israel will do what it already agreed to do

But remember, no matter what it's the Arabs' fault!

[shira]

2. The prisoners being released was based on progress in the talks. Since your buddies from the PA....

...say they won't even negotiate end-of-conflict (peace) then what kind of progress can be expected?

What are peace talks when peace isn't even going to be negotiated?



After all, Abbas did say that he was amenable to ending the conflict back in August 2013:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/23/mahmoud-abbas-mideast-peace-talks_n_3801887.html

=========

If the Kurds, Basques, or Tibetans were offered their own state on the equivalent of 100% of the land they were seeking, you think they'd be as allergic as the Palestinians are to having a state of their own?

[azurnoir]

3. US: No Palestinian prisoner release is violation of terms of talks

Israel's failure to release a final batch of Palestinian prisoners, scheduled for Saturday night, amounts to a violation of the terms of the original agreement reached between Israel and the Palestinians at the start of talks nine months ago, brokered by the United States, US officials have told their Israeli counterparts.

The outline of that original agreement was never published in full. But Israel publicly acknowledged its commitment to four prisoner releases as a condition of peace talks with the Palestinians.

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-to-Israel-No-Palestinian-prisoner-release-is-violation-of-terms-of-talks-346878


I know it's not Richard Landes or Itamar Marcus but hopefully you believe the veracity of JPost

[Scootaloo]

6. Well, remember, Ginger's convinced Obama's a secret muslim out to get Israel

You can't trust anything the Us says; we're almost as bad as denmark!

[Scootaloo]

4. Alright Shira, pull up a chair. You need an education

Now, I don't think I've brought this up, at least in I/P, but I've taken training in union negotiation for SEIU and have sat as representative for several employees at my former place of work.

When you go into negotiations, there is a single expectation; that both parties are committed to an equitable resolution of the issue. This doesn't mean that you have to accept whatever's tossed on the table - in fact quite the opposite. it is expected that each side is offering something acceptable to the other party.

What that means is that if you make onerous demands, it is your fault when negotiations break down. For instance, if we were negotiating a contract, and I came to the table demanding $40/hour minimum for all positions, the management on the other side of the table would say "lol, nope, now fuck off" - nobody in the union would look at management and think they're unreasonable, instead they would ask me what in the flying fuck I was thinking, and unless I have some amazing explanation for how that was a reasonable demand, I would be shitcanned as a negotiator, because I will have just set the workers' contract bid back by... a hell of a lot. Maybe even killed the union presence altogether in that shop.

Now we come to the negotiations here in regards to Israel / Palestine.

read your article carefully. Let's except

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said he wants a negotiated peace agreement with Israel to include a clause stating that the conflict is officially over, Haaretz reported
(...)
“People say that after signing a peace agreement we will still demand Haifa, Acre and Safed,” Abbas said. “That is not true. Signing the agreement will signal the end of the conflict.”

Abbas is saying that a peace agreement - that is, the treaty itself - abrogates Plaestinian claims to territories like htose he lists. That's a no-brainer, as that's the entire point of a peace treaty, and territorial discussions have centered on the armistice lines; Haifa, Acre, etc are inside the Green Line and are thus not even "in play" anyway.

But let's look over at the Times of Israel report on his refusal...

And finally, he refused to commit to an “end of conflict,” under which a peace deal would represent the termination of any further Palestinian demands of Israel.

This is something different than what Abbas was talking about in your article from August. Perhaps like Netanyahu's sudden demand for recognition as a "Jewish state," it's a brand-new demand or a changing condition.

But what it means is that if agreed to, the Palestinians - state and people - relinquish all rights to seek redress from Israel for wrongs committed. I've explained this to you before.

- It means no wrongful death suits.
- It means no attempts to reclaim stolen property or finances
- It means no restitution for damaged property
- It means no back rent owed
- It means no recompense for wrongful evictions or imprisonments
etc., etc.

Basically this amounts to Israel asking that over 40 years of occupation and pillage being swept under the rug, with Israel keeping all the loot it pilfered in that time and having no culpability for harms caused. It's not as if there's just a few oopsies and boo-boos that can be just forgiven in exchange for some sort of nice gesture or apology (and Israel isn't even offering that much...) it's a situation where an entire nation of people has been wronged, oppressed, and exploited. You don't get to just pretend it never happened.

This is an unreasonable demand. Israel makes a lot of those. it demands the Palestinians do a song and dance when they come to the table. it demands that it gets to keep territory it's stolen. it demands the Palestinians abandon not only their right to return but also their right to seek redress for grievances. it demands a continued occupation of the Jordan Valley. Israel demands, demands, demands, demands. And to top it off, israel then refuses to carry through on things it has previously agreed to do, and makes additional demands in exchange for doing what they're supposed to do anyway.

And then blames the Palestinians when the Palestinians balk at the list of demands and note the failure of Israel to meet its own agreements.

In the real world, of course, demanding that the other party meet your demands before even talking about the negotiations is a good way to not get negotiations. making pointless or onerous demands is a good way to end negotiations. Failing to carry through on our agreements is guaranteed to annul those agreements, and get you in legal hot water to boot.

Israel is holding peace captive, reliant on the Palestinians agreeing to a neverending stream of demands and preconditions that all amount to fucking themselves over, while clearly believing it is not itself actually bound to any agreements made. So long as it continues "negotiating" like someone with a building full of hostages, negotiations are going ot keep failing.

That the Palestinians are still willing to consider negotiating is either a sign of extreme patience or a level of naivety that I just can't fathom, honestly

[azurnoir]

5. I doubt that it will happen

supposedly it was free Pollard in return for Israel freeing Marwan Barghouti, but to continue peace talks ?

[King_David]

7. How is it the Arabs Fault ?

I don't get your logic.

[Scootaloo]

8. I was being facetious, Dave

[bemildred]

9. Proposed release of Israeli spy raises ire of U.S. spies

(Reuters) - A U.S. proposal to consider freeing a jailed Israeli spy caught many American intelligence officials off-guard and will face stiff opposition if the Obama administration decides to go ahead with it in a bid to salvage Middle East peace talks, officials said.

Negotiations over the fate of Jonathan Pollard, a former naval intelligence analyst serving a life sentence for espionage, have stoked deep concern in the ranks of U.S. spy services already reeling from leaks orchestrated by former national security contractor Edward Snowden.

Senior lawmakers, including Senator Dianne Feinstein, head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, staked out positions on Tuesday equally hostile to the idea, which started taking shape this week in talks between U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"He shouldn't be released. He should serve out," Republican Senator Mark Kirk, a former Navy intelligence reservist, said when asked about Pollard's fate. "I would hope that he would sort of rot in hell in jail for a long time."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/01/us-israel-palestinian-usa-pollard-idUSBREA3023020140401

[bemildred]

10. Pollard's actions 'exceeded only by Snowden,' ex-U.S. official says

As Israeli and U.S. officials have indicated in recent days that the U.S. may agree to free Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard as part of a larger move to salvage peace talks, the former director of U.S. naval intelligence has stressed the severity of Pollard's actions, saying they have only been topped by Edward Snowden.

Pollard, who worked for the Navy as a civilian intelligence analyst, was convicted by a U.S. court of spying for Israel in 1987 and sentenced to life in prison.

On November 21, 1985, Pollard and his then-wife Anne were arrested in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington, D.C. They were escaping from FBI agents who had raided the couple's home at the conclusion of the covert investigation into their activities. They headed to the Israeli embassy as directed by their handlers in order to evade arrest but when they arrived, they were not allowed in.

Pollard has long maintained that he only gave information to Israel so it could protect itself from hostile countries in the Middle East, but U.S. officials don't see it that way.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.583133

[bemildred]

11. The Prosecutor Who Sent Israeli Spy Jonathan Pollard To Jail Says His Release Would Be ... Insane

Joseph diGenova, the former U.S. Attorney who prosecuted Israeli spy and former U.S. intelligence agent Jonathan Pollard, said Tuesday his potential release under an emerging deal to extend Israeli-Palestinian peace talks would be "literally insane."

---

But the most baffling aspect for both diGenova and other experts is that the U.S. is dangling Pollard as an enticement only to extend talks. There is no indication Israel and Palestine are anywhere close to a peace deal, or even close to an agreement on any of the remaining sticking points. Even if the talks are extended, there's a good chance they could ultimately fail.

DiGenova has been openly critical of President Barack Obama on a host of issues. He is a longtime Republican activist, and he represents a former Marine who has accused Obama of participating in a cover up on the 2012 Benghazi terror attack. But he, like others, pointed to the extensive damage done by Pollard's spying.

Pollard, a former Navy intelligence officer, used his top-secret clearance to access to national defense information. He provided Israel with thousands of pages of U.S. intelligence on military and technical intelligence on the Soviet Union, Arab states, and Pakistan. Israel promised to pay him nearly $750,000 to spy, diGenova said.

http://www.chron.com/technology/businessinsider/article/The-Prosecutor-Who-Sent-Israeli-Spy-Jonathan-5368725.php