Thousands of rockets fired, 0 Israeli deaths, dozens of missiles fired, 100 Palestinian deaths.

[Fred Sanders]

(This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Agschmid (a host of the General Discussion forum), so I have properly reported here. Thought there was a good, civil discussion going on, my bad)

...................

The math is not debatable. (UPDATE, 113 to 0)

If not targeting civilians and innocents is the goal, what would actual targeting look like? Genocide by another name would smell as ugly.

Where shall we begin with a "fair and balanced" discussion of how children blown to bloody bits sleeping at home or men sipping coffee at a cafe shredded to mincemeat is equal to 0 Israeli deaths?

And Wolf Blitzer taking a selfie rushing to a shelter in mock fright does not cut it.

Bibi, you start it off the all sides are equal argument, begin with numbers of women and children and innocents you have slaughtered in the past few days.

The propaganda war Israel is waging is almost as evil as it's real war in the most densely populated place on the planet.

Edit: Yes, I know, I will get few kicks and recs, because being critical of Israel means you must be an anti-Semite, just more propaganda at work.

[Jefferson23]

1. I have not watched any tv news today, did Blitzer really do that? n/t

[Fred Sanders]

4. Yes, made a big production of rushing to a shelter....outside of which men were having a smoke.

Doubt he will play it again, it was idiotic.

[Jefferson23]

17. omg, he's such a fucking jerk.

Speaking to the rest of your OP, isn't it curious to many of us, that we still do not have
any evidence as yet that Hamas is responsible for the teens deaths? Bibi says he
has it, but no one has seen it.

That we have seen no demonstration of a time line in the MSM about events that
began in May with the IDF's killing of two Palestinians.

That Bibi knew the Israeli teens were dead and politicized their deaths in order to create
havoc and destroy homes, arrest hundreds of Palestinians?

I could go on, 'cause there's more, but I think you get my point.

Wolf is not likely to talk about that, nor AC360..or whatever his name is.

[Fred Sanders]

20. Bib has no evidence, if he did he would have started this long ago, and the teens were kidnapped

in the West Bank, not the Gaza Strip, not that most give a shit.

[Jefferson23]

21. Yep, exactly. n/t

[Jefferson23]

25. Many people who suffer do not receive the attention and help they deserve...very true. n/t

[King_David]

33. And they not all "Zionist" states either

[MindMover]

3. When the numbers are 100 to 1 ... rockets will stop ...

[Fozzledick]

5. You'd think Hamas would knock it off if they had any sense.

But producing Palestinian civilian casualties for propaganda purposes is exactly what they want.

It's sort of like producing child pornography, only bloodier. If they didn't have an eager clientele willing to buy it they wouldn't keep producing it.

[Fred Sanders]

6. Nonsense. Killing hundreds and maiming thousand of your own people by proxy? Nonsense.

[Fozzledick]

10. They openly brag about how effectively they've been doing it.

Last edited Fri Jul 11, 2014, 07:53 PM - Edit history (1)

And here you are, eating it up.

[Fred Sanders]

12. How effectively they are doing what, killing and maiming, because that would be 0 casualties?

[Fozzledick]

19. How effectively they are herding women and children onto known targets.

Any way you look at it, there are solely responsible for ALL casualties resulting from their offensive. Why would you want to try to make excuses for them?

[Fred Sanders]

22. You say excuses, I say the numbers are facts that speak for themselves,

[Fozzledick]

24. That's just what Hamas wants you to say, which is why they do it.

[King_David]

35. Exactly right

[samsingh]

80. have you heard of the ISIS massacres - killing people is not a stretch

[Scuba]

30. So the Israelis aren't terrorists, just idiots?

[Chemisse]

32. So it is just fine to kill innocent people, because they are asking for it?

The logic to support Israel's military moves couldn't be more twisted.

[shira]

52. Hamas is responsible for the deaths of Palestinians. They "win" whether....

...they're killing Israelis and they "win" when Palestinians are killed. It's why they persist on sacrificing Palestinians when they use them as human shields. Their cheerleading clientele will never call them out on it and that's why they continue to do it.

[samsingh]

81. what should Israel do?

[Chemisse]

87. Allow Palestinians to have their own state

And live in peace.

[samsingh]

88. the first part i agree

the second is impossible given the nations that surround Israel. Israel is always fighting for its life.

[Chemisse]

89. I tend to forget that in my anger at their behavior.

But you are right.

[shira]

51. You hit a homerun with that one

But producing Palestinian civilian casualties for propaganda purposes is exactly what they want.

It's sort of like producing child pornography, only bloodier. If they didn't have an eager clientele willing to buy it they wouldn't keep producing it.

That's definitely what Hamas wants and it's apparently what their eager Israel hating clientele also wants. The haters can't even acknowledge this has been Hamas strategy going back well before 2009's Cast Lead. They're so eager to make Israel into baby killers they will outright deny Hamas' responsibility in Palestinian deaths.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. Why?

You say it's exactly what they want, so why would they knock it off?

Too bad you're not over in Israel advising the military leaders there, or you could point out that Hamas has (according to you) gotten the Israelis to do exactly what Hamas wants. It's amazing how easy it is for them to get the Israeli military to do exactly what they want...

[Fred Sanders]

62. If Israel is doing exactly as Hamas wants, then why not stop doing it? Stop killing children and

innocents? Easy enough.

The logical disaster is awesome.

[sabbat hunter]

83. because

Israel is not intentionally targeting civilians. In fact they warn civilians ahead of time what is being targeted so they can get out of the way. Israel is targeting military/hamas targets and rocket launching sites. It is not the fault of Israel that Hamas urges civilians to get to those targets to be martyrs for the cause.

Hamas on the other hand intentionally targets civilian targets and it is only because of the ABM and some luck that the casualties on the Israeli side are low.

[Scootaloo]

67. Doesn't matter if they do or not

King Netanyahu I has declared that there will be no cease-fire.

[King_David]

7. Would it make anyone feel better if there were Israeli deaths ?

Hamas aimed for the nuclear power plant there would of been millions of Jewish deaths and millions of Palestinian deaths too if they were successful .

[BillZBubb]

11. Red Herring.

No, it wouldn't make people happy if there were Israeli deaths. The goal is to limit all deaths. But, Israel is the one doing all the killing. Given their vast military superiority they are deservedly getting the blame.

[Fred Sanders]

13. Israel is not targeting civilians, Hamas is, but what is the body count! Hate to see the body

count if Israel was doing the same as Hamas, who by the way can target nothing with bottle rockets.

[King_David]

15. Hamas just attempted to nuke the area

So maybe Israel should lie back and allow these mass murderers to go ahead ?

Of course The Jewish State must be stopped even if nuked? Same story different day.

[Fred Sanders]

16. Another red herring. Nuke the area? No evidence at all, just pure propaganda to frighten people and

justify the slaughter of innocents under a veil of pretend self defence.

[King_David]

18. No evidence?

The Hamas maniacs admitted it .

[Fred Sanders]

23. Some Israeli maniacs want to nuke Palestine, are we going to debate maniacal thinking?

[King_David]

26. Hamas attempted to hit the nuclear reactor

And attempted mass murder .


http://www.democraticunderground.com/113466694


There's not enough Kosher salt in the world for anyone to turn this from traif.

But there's enough hatred of the Jewish State ( because it is just that) to make excuses for this attempted mass murder.

[azurnoir]

27. there is an interesting thread here that brings up the question does Hamas even their most powerful

rocket actually have the capability to a poster here claims cause a nuclear disaster or melt down in Dimona,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113467248

[King_David]

29. Hamas doesn't seem to know this

And yet they try and admit it too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113466694

That's who Israel's dealing with.

[azurnoir]

34. is Dimona even operational it was shut down in 2012 because of fears of an Iranian strike

now Iran does have the capability to do what you claim Hamas tried to

In January 2012, media reports indicated that the Israel Atomic Energy Commission had decided to, at least temporarily, shut down the reactor. The site's vulnerability to attack from Iran was cited as the main reason for the decision.[17] In October and November 2012, it was reported that Hamas had fired rockets at Dimona and/or Negev Nuclear Research Center.[18][19] In July 2014 Hamas again fired rockets towards the area surrounding the reactor. The facility was not harmed or damaged in any of the attempted strikes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negev_Nuclear_Research_Center

[King_David]

36. Who knows , Hamas seems to think so though

They admitted to targeting it.

They attempted mass murder suicide killing off half the Jewish population of the world and 1/100th the Muslim population too.

[azurnoir]

37. mass murder with inadequate weapons and on a possibly shut down reactor?

I guess Hamas doesn't have the internet huh?

[King_David]

41. Not sure -They proven by this action they not exactly civilized .

Blowing up children's discotheque and pizza parlors and Pesach Seders and buses and now attempting to nuke the place is not exactly the work of civilsed people.

[Fred Sanders]

46. It is now 113 uncivilized people killed, 0 others.....

[shira]

55. While Hamas continues to fire from populated areas....

...in order to use dead babies as propaganda.

And the Palestinians' most passionate advocates couldn't give a shit about that.

#Phony.Concern

#Compassion.Abuse

[King_David]

58. I'm talking about Hamas

Not the innocent civilians they hide amongst.

[Fred Sanders]

47. Yep, Hamas does not have the Google to see if it is operational....brilliant.

[King_David]

59. Sorry I don't really understand that reply. nt

[sabbat hunter]

84. it may be shut down

but it is still loaded with nuclear fuel. Hamas attempted to hit it, hoping to spread the radioactive contents over a wide area.

The reactor is protected with a concrete dome, but all you need is one lucky strike to do its damage.

[Fred Sanders]

85. Hit it with what, a bottle rocket with no guidance system? The ?Hamas Army? With what?

Hamas is a puny force compared to the military of the nation of Israel, can you no think for yourself?

[sabbat hunter]

86. those so called

"bottle rockets" can do damage, and if they aren't intercepted by ABMs do damage.

Bottle rockets indeed. Seriously?

[BillZBubb]

28. Israel has killed-they are dead-over 100 people. The Palestinians rockets 0

And you want to call the Palestinians mass murderers????

Your fanaticism has gotten the best of you.

[King_David]

31. Hamas attempted mass murder and they proud of it

And admit to it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113466694

That's the group that's forming the next government .

Just imagine if they actually had the capability ? That is why Israel must do everything in their formidable power to prevent these wannabe mass mirderers from commiting the atrocities they desire.

[BillZBubb]

43. Your fanaticism is unfortunate.

Your views can only lead to a future of more and more bloodshed.

[Fred Sanders]

44. It is what some like him want, an eye for a eye until the whole world goes blind.

[King_David]

45. In what upside down world would one be called a fanatic

For calling out a homophobic gay and Jew hating group for attempting mass murder ?

[Fred Sanders]

49. Hamas attempted mass murder versus Israel actual mass murder.....brilliant.

[King_David]

60. Frustrating as it is ,

The attempt by Hamas was to kill half the worlds Jewish population and 1/100 of the worlds Muslim population. That's whom Israel is dealing with .

[shira]

56. See #55. n/t

[shira]

53. There were 0 NATO deaths and 0 American deaths....

...when the bombings were going on in Serbia, Bosnia, and most recently Libya.

[King_David]

40. I can guess the answer. nt

[BillZBubb]

48. I answered the question honestly.

Could it be you just don't want to accept an honest answer.

[Scootaloo]

82. No there wouldn't have been "millions of deaths"

There would have been scorch marks on concrete. I know that you love your hyperbole Dave, but really? Get a fucking grip.

[BillZBubb]

8. Decent people are appalled by the disperity in casualties.

The Israeli response is massively disproportionate to the provocation. It is collective punishment.

But, that is the Likud way: To scuttle any chance at peace in the near future at every opportunity.

[Fred Sanders]

9. Decent people know that Palestinians are also decent people, and when you stab them, do they not

bleed?

[BillZBubb]

14. The Palestinians, like the Israelis, have their bad actors.

And both sides have reasons to distrust and dislike the other. Unfortunately, the misguided ones on both sides use that to make matter worse at every opportunity.

[shira]

57. But these same "decent" people don't seem to care....

...about Hamas' disgusting strategy where they receive a propaganda "win" whenever they're able to produce dead babies.

Is it that these decent people don't care or don't know about this? If they don't know, why don't they know?

[Fred Sanders]

61. Dead children are not a propaganda win for anyone, thinking it is is hate speech.

[shira]

63. Okay, then why does Hamas use children as human shields/sacrifices? n/t

[Fred Sanders]

64. Because you fall for the propaganda tripe is why.

[shira]

65. Are you denying Hamas deliberately uses Palestinians as shields? n/t

[Fred Sanders]

66. 113 dead? What kind of shield is that, not a very good marketing plan for shields.

[shira]

68. No sense denying it...

Here's Hamas boasting about it:

Here's a Palestinian news article:

"The Abd Rabbo family kept quiet while Hamas fighters turned their farm in the Gaza strip into a fortress. Right now they are waiting for the aid promised by the (Hamas) movement after Israel bombed the farm and turned it into ruins...

The hill on which the Abd Rabbo family lives overlooks the Israeli town of Sderot which turned it into an ideal military position for the Palestinian fighters, from which they have launched hundreds of rockets into southern Israel during the last few years. Several of the Abd Rabbo family members described how the fighters dug tunnels under their houses, stored arms in the fields and launched rockets from the yard of their farm during the nights.

The Abd Rabbo family members emphasize that they are not (Hamas) activists and that they are still loyal to the Fatah movement, but that they were unable to prevent the armed squads from entering their neighborhood at night. One family member, Hadi (age 22) said: 'You can't say anything to the resistance [Hamas], or they will accuse you of collaborating (with Israel) and shoot you in the legs.'"
Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Jan. 27, 2009

And another:

Headline: "Iran closes a reformist newspaper for publishing a report criticizing Hamas"

"The Iranian news agency 'Irna' reported yesterday that the Iranian Culture Ministry has closed the reformist daily newspaper "Karjo Zaran" because it published a report that included criticism of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas).
On Dec. 30 the paper published a statement of a reformist student organization, that has criticized Hamas for risking lives of civilians, amongst them children, by hiding its forces in nurseries and hospitals. The statement was published while the Iranian government expresses a unified stand against Israel, and Tehran is overwhelmed by demonstrations against Israel."
Al-Ayyam, Jan. 1, 2009

Maybe you need to ask yourself WHY Hamas persists with rocket attacks when the count is 113-0. Are they dumb? Obviously, they think the death toll is worth it. Ask yourself why.

[shira]

70. Here's recent video from days ago on Hamas boasting of Human Shields...

#t=43


If Hamas were so concerned about Palestinian lives, they wouldn't deliberately attempt to put their people in harm's way.

They're getting their asses handed to them, they've lost 113 Palestinians, killed 0 Israelis and they see the war as a win. It's due to them thinking dead babies are propaganda wins for them. Think about it. Israel has nothing to gain from innocent Palestinians killed. Israel has a lot to lose when civilians are killed. So Hamas has everything to gain by firing rockets and using their people cynically. It's why they do it.

Where are the decent pro-Palestinians who are outraged by Hamas? Name them.

[Fred Sanders]

76. Your posting of graphics is against the forum rules.

[7962]

90. So now you're complaining about graphics because you dont like the facts.

[Fozzledick]

69. Honest people know Hamas is responsible for all of them.

[BillZBubb]

71. Anyone who claims that is not honest.

[Fozzledick]

72. Says someone named for the Prince of Lies.

It suits you well.

[BillZBubb]

73. That's funny!

But, old Bill isn't lying, just pointing out the inconvenient truths.

[Fred Sanders]

74. Nice catch. Kind of ironic to claim truth when your user name is Satan.

[hrmjustin]

42. A reporter on CNn says they think thr number of dead is 113.

[Agschmid]

75. Kick!

We need to be paying close attention to this issue, the escalation has to stop.

[Fred Sanders]

77. Absolutely, the one sided carnage does not have to get more sided and take more lives on both sides.

[MFM008]

78. How about it all just stops

no more excuses no more anything, just STOP. Both sides stop.

[cheapdate]

79. I don't like it when Israel bombs Palestinian homes and cities,

or carves up Palestinian land with "settlements" or blockades Gaza and turns it into the world's biggest gulag. And I don't like it any better when Palestinians deliberately set off explosives in crowds of people in Israeli cities. What a fucking mess. There's no end to it.