Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forum'Death and horror' in Gaza as thousands flee Israeli bombardment
The fiercest fighting of the 13-day war in Gaza erupted on Sunday as Israel dramatically widened its ground offensive, sending tanks and troops into urban areas and causing thousands of panicked civilians to flee.
Images of the corpses of women and children lying in streets were posted on Facebook as hospitals were overwhelmed with the dead, injured and those seeking sanctuary from the onslaught.
Palestinian human rights organisations warned that the disproportionate number of civilian deaths could constitute a war crime committed by Israel.
Despite Israel saying it had agreed to a two-hour ceasefire in the middle of the day, requested by the Red Cross, to allow for the injured and dead to be evacuated, shelling and gunfire continued. Israel blamed continued Hamas rocket fire for the breakdown of the humanitarian truce.
All morning, terrified people ran from their homes, some barefoot and nearly all empty-handed. Others crowded on the backs of trucks or rode on the bonnets of cars in a desperate attempt to flee. Sky News reported that some had described a "massacre" in Shujai'iya. Witnesses reported hearing small arms fire inside Gaza, suggesting gun battles on the streets. Heavy shelling continued from the air and sea.
Bodies were pulled from rubble amid massive destruction of buildings in the neighbourhood. Masked gunmen were on the streets.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/gaza-thousands-flee-israeli-bombardment
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shira
(30,109 posts)Talk of Israeli warcrimes. Nothing about Hamas human shielding war crimes to get as many Palestinians killed as possible. This is propaganda.
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8076.htm
HAMASBARA !!!
"Anyone killed or martyred is to be called a civilian from Gaza or Palestine, before we talk about his status in jihad or his military rank. Don't forget to always add 'innocent civilian' or 'innocent citizen' in your description of those killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza.
"Begin your reports of news of resistance actions with the phrase 'In response to the cruel Israeli attack,' and conclude with the phrase 'This many people have been martyred since Israel launched its aggression against Gaza.' Be sure to always perpetuate the principle of 'the role of the occupation is attack, and we in Palestine are fulfilling the role of the reaction.'
"Beware of spreading rumors from Israeli spokesmen, particularly those that harm the home front. Be wary regarding accepting the occupation's version [of events]. You must always cast doubts on this [version], disprove it, and treat it as false.
"Avoid publishing pictures of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza city centers. This would provide a pretext for attacking residential areas in the Gaza Strip. Do not publish or share photos or video clips showing rocket launching sites or the movement of resistance forces in Gaza.
"To the administrators of news pages on Facebook: Do not publish close-ups of masked men with heavy weapons, so that your page will not be shut down [by Facebook] on the claim that you are inciting violence. In your coverage, be sure that you say: 'The locally manufactured shells fired by the resistance are a natural response to the Israeli occupation that deliberately fires rockets against civilians in the West Bank and Gaza'..."
Additionally, the interior ministry prepared a series of suggestions specifically for Palestinian activists who speak to Westerners via social media. The ministry emphasizes that conversations with them should be conducted differently from conversations with other Arabs. It stated:
"When speaking to the West, you must use political, rational, and persuasive discourse, and avoid emotional discourse aimed at begging for sympathy. There are elements with a conscience in the world; you must maintain contact with them and activate them for the benefit of Palestine. Their role is to shame the occupation and expose its violations.
"Avoid entering into a political argument with a Westerner aimed at convincing him that the Holocaust is a lie and deceit; instead, equate it with Israel's crimes against Palestinian civilians.
"The narrative of life vs. the narrative of blood: When speaking to an Arab friend, start with the number of martyrs. But when speaking to a Western friend, start with the number of wounded and dead. Be sure to humanize the Palestinian suffering. Try to paint a picture of the suffering of the civilians in Gaza and the West Bank during the occupation's operations and its bombings of cities and villages.
"Do not publish photos of military commanders. Do not mention their names in public, and do not praise their achievements in conversations with foreign friends!"
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)And *that* is what you've got to say about all those deaths?
Disgusting...
shira
(30,109 posts)...and The Guardian is doing their best to cover this up? So excuse me for not taking articles like these seriously. These propagandists at the Guardian could care less about Palestinian civilians.
Disgusting...
It's not just the Guardian either. Seems every allegedly pro-Palestinian media outlet is shilling for Hamas these days. They're not even pretending anymore.
cali
(114,904 posts)SHAME SHAME SHAME on YOU, shira. the refusal to acknowledge that Israel is even a little bit responsible for THEIR actions is beyond disgusting and vile. It's morally indefensible.
shira
(30,109 posts)...trying to get as many Palestinians killed as possible. All for PR purposes in order to smear Israel.
That's the real shame.
It's HORRIFICALLY evil and pro-Hamas to boot.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)That you think all those deaths are far less important than some bizarre conspiracy that you've concocted where Israel is yet again totally blameless really says all that needs to be said, imo...
shira
(30,109 posts)...Palestinians killed as possible are HELPING Hamas get more Palestinians killed.
Hamas cannot succeed without a media that supports their vile efforts.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It's doing what most other media sources are doing right now, which is reporting on the bombing of Gaza by Israel, which has resulted in a lot of dead Palestinians. I do assume that most DUers who disagree with me on the conflict feel the same sense of horror that I do right now, but unfortunately there's one or two that don't. Urgh...
shira
(30,109 posts)Refusal to report on Hamas' cynical strategy to get Palestinians killed (in order to smear Israel) helps Hamas to continue doing what it's doing. It leads to more Palestinian deaths. This silence does NOT lead to a better understanding of what's really going on on the ground.
It's Hamas advocacy.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)This is the most ridiculous thing I've read at DU for a long time.
shira
(30,109 posts)In fact, it conforms perfectly with Hamas media guidelines in post #1.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)The rest of us will focus on the important stuff, like being appalled at the massive loss of life and hoping it ends soon...
shira
(30,109 posts)Do you deny it or do u condemn it outright?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)supporting the murderers.
cali
(114,904 posts)There are very few who shrug off Hamas.
What you post here is as morally reprehensible as anything I've seen. It shocks me. It disgusts me. I think it shouldn't be countenanced. You post a stream of vile propaganda. You deny your utter lack of compassion for Palestinians by tarting it up and saying "oh how sad, it's all the fault of Hamas", ignoring who is firing the bullets and dropping the bombs. People with any decency, acknowledge that Hamas is at fault AND the Israelis are at fault. I won't even get into who I believe is more at fault in the present nightmare.
Horrifically evil? That would be what you are doing.
shira
(30,109 posts)Israel's loudest critics here REFUSE to acknowledge Hamas' UTTERLY vile role in Palestinian deaths. Hell, I'm not sure you're capable of acknowledging what they're doing.
Do you agree their strategy is to get as many Palestinians killed, for PR purposes against Israel?
Are you kidding...? Their abject denial of this FACT is critical to their argument. Without it, they have nothing.
shira
(30,109 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Yes, I think that is part of their strategy- and Israel is only too happy to oblige.
shira
(30,109 posts)So that's not really condemning Hamas, when they're deflecting from Hamas war crimes against its own people.
cali
(114,904 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...which is covered up for the most part.
Evil.
Israel has since made it illegal, while pro-Palestinians (in name only) tacitly support Hamas' war crimes against the Palestinian people with their deflections, denial, etc.
Hence...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=69111
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)You honestly have no idea at all about how wrong it is that you don't have any sense of horror over all those deaths, and all you can do is do what you always do and go on and on and on throwing blame around and unsuccessfully trying to convince DUers that Israel never ever does anything wrong?
I'll repeat it: disgusting.
shira
(30,109 posts)Your media source has yet to report on or condemn Hamas strategy to get as many Palestinian innocents killed as possible. Their intent is to play the blame game. Are you not disgusted by that?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Yr the one who galloped into this thread and started playing the blame game.
shira
(30,109 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It's one of the biggest news stories round right now.
PCIntern
(25,533 posts)I do not understand why every third word in this argument is the f-bomb or s--t. If you cannot make a cogent case without profanity then give up.
By the way, I do not give a damn about the words, it is their incessant use to no end as though screaming louder proves your point.
cali
(114,904 posts)fucking tough shit if your oh so delicate sensibilities are bruised. And it's transparent and pathetic bullshit to claim that someone who uses such language isn't capable of arguing without such use. George Carlin ring a bell? I use it because it punctuates how I feel and encapsulates the frustration of discourse with people like....you.
PCIntern
(25,533 posts)If you cannot posit an argument without this, then you have lost, which you actually did in 1948, but just won't accept it. It is not my sensibilities: it is rational discourse of which you are apparently nearly incapable. Sputtering Anglo-Saxonisms in a cliched manner will not further your cause here. If you are intending to convince others of your sincerity and devotion, you are failing mightily.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)People at DU swear a lot more than that, and I don't recall me saying 'fuck' more than two or three times in this entire thread. I'll say 'fuck' when I want to unless Skinner bans it.
There's bound to be a new OP in GD complaining about language any time now. If you rush you can get on board before it hits 500 posts!
PCIntern
(25,533 posts)have fun!
shira
(30,109 posts)...with Hamas' strategy to get as many Palestinians killed as possible?
Hell, they're denying it.
I doubt you'd acknowledge it, and that's the problem.
Response to shira (Reply #1)
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shira
(30,109 posts)Response to shira (Reply #11)
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shira
(30,109 posts)...killed as possible does not do Hamas victims (Palestinians) any good.
It's anti-Palestinian and evil. The anti-thesis of human rights.
Media has an obligation to report on civilian deaths HONESTLY by supplying background info. on Hamas' vile strategy.
Response to shira (Reply #17)
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cali
(114,904 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Find me one Guardian news article (not op-ed) that reports on this vile strategy.
The OP is quick to point to possible Israeli war crimes, but not a peep about Hamas' strategy.
It's pro-Hamas propaganda.
Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
That is characterization is just more demonizing. One can condemn Israel's actions without labeling. All this "monsters", "savages" crap is totally UNHELPFUL.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Whole families killed and severly injuried, and ambulances not being allowed to get to people.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It's selfish of me, but the horror of what's been happening gets to be a bit too much. That thread in GD about the four boys who were killed when they were playing on the beach was heartbreaking 
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)This is not justified.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
sabbat hunter
(6,828 posts)that by Israel going in with ground troops, it was going to get very bloody.
We cannot however assume that all of the dead (or even a majority of the dead) are innocent or were martyred by Hamas by Hamas telling them to stay in place (or perhaps forcing them to stay in place).
The biggest tragedy is the death of children (anyone under the age of 18), as even if they were involved in fighting against Israel they are either too young to know better, or were forced to fight by Hamas.
We need a general cease fire by both sides. Then a UN force coming in to keep the peace by disarming the IJ and Hamas of any arms and rockets they have.
Next step would be for Israel to withdraw from most of the WB (excluding the old city of jerusalem).
The chances of what the UN coming in and actually disarming terrorists, highly unlikely. The chances of Israel withdrawing from the WB? Even less so under the current government.
Lapid and Livini need to remove themselves, and their parties from the coalition to force new elections.
