Israel finds Hamas are no longer amateur fighters

[bemildred]

Gaza City (CNN) -- Israel's ground incursion into Gaza, which it says is intended to destroy Palestinian militants' tunnels and stop rocket fire into Gaza, has enters its fifth day with the death toll mounting on both sides and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry arriving in Egypt. CNN's Ben Wedeman, a veteran Middle East correspondent, puts the incursion into perspective.

How does this incursion compare to previous ones by Israel into Gaza, in terms of military force?

Unlike 2008/09, this incursion seems to be focused on areas with high concentrations of people, initially focusing on the Gaza City neighborhood of Shaja'ia. In '08/09 the focus was on areas where rockets were being fired, which were typically away from highly populated communities.

And of course at this stage, it's unclear how many Palestinian casualties there have been in these locations. The people have been warned by the Israelis to leave these areas with phone messages, but while many have left, a significant proportion has stayed behind.

My impression is that Israel has mobilized a much larger military force than in 2008/09 and in 2012. This is part of the picture of the Israelis going into heavily populated areas - which is a much more dangerous operation, as can be seen by the deaths of at least 13 Israeli soldiers on Sunday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/world/meast/israel-gaza-qa/index.html

[azurnoir]

1. It is a sad fact is this operation has proven much more expensive than Israel anticipated

based on past Gaza military operation, in fact at this point more Israeli soldiers (25 at least) have dies in this one operation than in the 4 Gaza operations since 2006

[shaayecanaan]

2. Normally once it hits one hundred...

the Israelis decide they've had enough and go home. That was the magic number in 2006.

[azurnoir]

3. hopefully it won't have to go that high

in 2006 it was against Hezbollah and Israel had suffered numerous losses against them in the past, but this time it's Hamas and up until now that has been a relatively cheap (in terms of Israeli lives) deal, not so much this time

[shaayecanaan]

4. Well, it may be good for things in the long run

Israeli leaders always get a bump in the polls whenever they've had a good old fashioned Gazan turkey shoot. Maybe this unexpected toll will make them think twice next time.

They've been pretty well-behaved on the Lebanese front ever since Hezbollah gave them more than they bargained for.

[hack89]

20. They had over 600 dead in 1982

if they think the threat warrants it, they will take the casualties. The fact that Hamas is that much better at fighting is a strong motivator to damage them further to avoid a more deadly fight in the future.

[bemildred]

5. I can't say I'm surprised, but I wouldn't have predicted it either.

Hard to predict anything with all the bullshit.

I will predict now a flurry of diplomatic activity aimed at a cease fire with few or no concessions.

[bemildred]

6. 2 Israeli soldiers killed, 7 wounded in Gaza

The Israeli army announced Tuesday that two of its soldiers were killed in clashes with Palestinian fighters in the besieged Gaza Strip on Monday, bringing to 27 the number of Israeli troops killed since July 7.

In a statement, the Israeli army said seven soldiers were wounded, including three seriously, overnight.

It identified one of the two killed soldiers as Sgt. First Class Oden Ben Sira.

Since July 7, Israel has pounded the embattled Gaza Strip with fierce air and naval bombardments with the stated aim of halting Palestinian rocket fire.

http://www.aa.com.tr/en/rss/362606--2-israeli-soldiers-killed-7-wounded-in-gaza

[bemildred]

7. Israeli soldier missing, presumed dead in Gaza

An Israeli soldier is missing in the Gaza Strip and presumed dead, local media quoted the military as saying on Tuesday, two days after the Islamist Hamas group announced they had captured a soldier during clashes.

Israel's Channel 10 News said the military believed the man was killed along with six other troops in an attack on an armoured vehicle on Sunday. However, the army has only identified six bodies.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4548049,00.html

[bemildred]

8. Israeli soldier missing, presumed dead in Gaza - media

(Reuters) - An Israeli soldier is missing in the Gaza Strip and presumed dead, local media quoted the military as saying on Tuesday, two days after the Islamist Hamas group announced they had captured a soldier during clashes.

Israel's Channel 10 News said the military believed the man was killed along with six other troops in an attack on an armoured vehicle on Sunday. However, the army has only identified six bodies.

Hamas on Sunday announced it had captured an Israeli soldier, but did not say whether he was dead or alive.

Abu Ubaida, the spokesman of the Hamas's armed wing, said the soldier was seized in heavy fighting on the Gaza border on Sunday. He displayed a photo ID and army serial number of the man, but showed no image of him in their hands.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/palestinians-israel-soldier-idINKBN0FR0MQ20140722?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=401

[bemildred]

16. Hamas claims to have Israeli soldier; diplomats seek truce in Gaza conflict

JERUSALEM — An Israeli soldier is missing following a bloody seven-hour battle Sunday in an East Gaza neighborhood, Israel’s military said Tuesday, but it was unknown yet whether the soldier was dead or alive. The development could complicate diplomatic efforts underway to stop the conflict between Israel and Hamas as it enters its third week.

Hamas announced Sunday that it had captured an Israeli soldier. Israel’s ambassador to the United Nations promptly denied the claim, but Israel’s military said it was investigating. The soldier was one of seven Israelis inside an armored personnel carrier in the Shijaiyah enclave when Hamas militants attacked with an antitank missile.

On Tuesday afternoon, new details of the possible fate of the soldier, identified by the military as 21-year-old Sgt. Oron Shaul, emerged. A senior Israeli military official, in a briefing with journalists in Tel-Aviv, suggested that there was a possibility that Shaul could have been captured alive by Hamas or another militant faction inside Gaza.

As the group of Israeli troops made their way into Shijaiyah, he said, their armored personnel carrier, or APC, appeared to either face a technical malfunction or was somehow prevented from moving forward.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/hamas-may-have-captured-israeli-soldier/2014/07/22/dfb18de2-1170-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html

[bemildred]

9. Israel denies cease-fire reports

Palestinian media report progress in talks in Cairo on an agreement beginning with a humantitarian cease-fire.

Israeli sources have denied reports in Palestinian media this morning of a five-hour humanitarian truce in the fighting in the Gaza Strip to commence at 10:00. IDF spokesperson Brigadier-General Motti Almoz told Walla! News, "We know of no cease-fire, we haven't heard anything about it, and we continue to operate determinedly in Gaza." As the conflict between Israel and Hamas continues, mainly concentrated in the Sejaiya neighborhood of Gaza, US Secretary of State John Kerry and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon have flown to the Middle East in an attempt to achieve a general cease-fire.

The IDF spokesperson published a statement this morning on Hamas's claim to have captured an Israeli soldier on Sunday night. The incident in question is the one in which Hamas fired an anti-tank missile at an Israeli personnel carrier, killing seven soldiers. After the incident, Hamas reported that it was holding a captive and even presented identifying details, but the IDF spokesperson said that the identification procedure for the seventh soldier killed had not yet been completed. In other words, an Israeli soldier is missing presumed dead, but the likelihood that Hamas holds a live soldier is low.

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-israel-denies-cease-fire-reports-1000957089

[bemildred]

10. BBC Arabic television reporter is attacked on air 'by angry Israeli'... but composes himself to carr

A BBC reporter has been attacked live on air by an 'angry Israeli' as he reported from the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip.

Feras Khatib was speaking from the Israeli city of Ashkelon this morning when without warning he was hurled sideways by an unidentified assailant.

Colleagues of the BBC Arabic correspondent restrained the man and pulled him out of shot as Mr Khatib regained his composure, continuing to speak within just one second.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2701656/BBC-Arabic-television-reporter-attacked-air-angry-Israeli-composes-carry-on.html

[bemildred]

11. Palestinian gunmen kill three Israeli troops including officer

GAZA, July 21 (KUNA) -- Palestinian resistance groups were firing rockets at Israel areas as well as attacking occupation ground forces at the eastern outskirts of Gaza City on Monday, killing Hamas military wing said.

Ezz-Eddine Al-Qassam Brigades said its fighters killed five Israeli soldiers and injured others in clashes in the eastern outskirts of Khan Younus, southern Gaza, tonight.

The Israel army investigated the attack and concluded that a group of Al-Qassam fighters succeeded in infiltrating, through a tunnel, behind the forces and they were wearing full military uniform which made it hard to recognize their true identities.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2388809&Language=en

[bemildred]

12. Israel’s ambassador praises Obama, slams Human Rights Watch report

Israel’s ambassador to the United States praised the Obama administration for standing in support of the now two-week-old Israeli military campaign against the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas on Tuesday, despite calls this week by President Obama for a cease-fire.

“The president has been backing Israel’s right to defend itself in the strongest possible terms,” Ambassador Ron Dermer said. “I don’t think that support could have been any better than it was.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/22/israels-ambassador-praises-obama-slams-human-right/

[bemildred]

13. Gaza: ‘Burning the consciousness’

JERUSALEM - In November 2012, Israel launched a military operation in the Gaza Strip called "Amud Anan", the literal English translation of which is, "Pillar of Clouds". Though, the official name in English was deemed, “Pillar of Defence”.

A few days ago we launched another operation named, "Mighty Cliff”, which is officially called, "Protective Edge".

Both chosen titles are highly defensive in their essence.

When I hear the names given to military operations in Gaza - especially the versions chosen for an international audience - I am reminded of my military service as a combatant in the Israeli army, whose full name (both in Hebrew and English) is: the “Israel Defence Forces” (IDF).

http://euobserver.com/opinion/125072

[bemildred]

14. Israeli Professor: Rape Hamas Militants' Mothers and Sisters to Deter Terrorist Attacks

The utter fuckwittery of this ...

An Israeli academic has claimed that raping wives and mothers of Palestinian Hamas militants is the only thing that could deter further terrorist attacks.

The remarks by renowned Middle East scholar Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University were made three weeks ago after the grim discovery of the bodies of the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers, but the recording was published online (in Hebrew) on Monday.

"The only thing that could deter a suicide bomber is knowing that if caught, his sister or his mother would be raped," said Kedar on Israel Radio Bet

"It sounds very bad, but that's the Middle East," he continued. "You have to understand the culture in which we live. The only thing that deters [Hamas leaders] is a threat to the connection between their heads and their shoulders."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israeli-professor-rape-hamas-militiants-mothers-sisters-deter-terrorist-attacks-1457836

[Jefferson23]

15. Amazing, isn't it? Even for a guy from right wing academia..you're left stunned.

"You have to understand the culture in which we live. The only thing that deters is a threat to the connection between their heads and their shoulders."

[bemildred]

17. How Hamas Uses An Underground City To Battle Israel

When Israel launched a ground offensive into Gaza last Thursday, one of the main stated objectives was to destroy the extensive network of underground tunnels that Hamas has built to funnel fighters across the border into Israel, as well as to transport supplies, store weapons and explosives, and provide a kind of safe house for high-level leaders. The Israeli military describes them as "terror tunnels."

The scope of this complex network is vast. It's an extraordinary piece of infrastructure that makes the 139-square-mile Gaza Strip a subterranean metropolis.

“All of Gaza is an underground city, and the amount of infrastructure Hamas built up over the years is immense," according to Israeli military spokesman Capt. Eytan Buchman. "There are tunnels, extended bunkers, weapons storage facilities, even within urban areas." Hamas militants have used the tunnels to cross the border into Israel, killing or taking Israeli soldiers hostage. Hours before the current Israeli offensive began on Thursday, 13 Hamas fighters emerged from a tunnel about a mile from the Gaza border in Israel near a kibbutz called Sufa, armed with machine guns and grenades.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3033388/how-hamas-uses-an-underground-city-to-battle-israel

[bemildred]

19. From Gaza to Israel, by Way of Underground Tunnels

The Israeli military said the focus of its ground operations in Gaza is to destroy the labyrinth of tunnels from the strip into Israel that can be used for launching attacks.

Israeli officials, who revealed they had been planning for a year a way to destroy the tunnels, began their ground assault on July 17, after 10 days of aerial bombardment, when 13 Hamas gunmen emerged from one underground passage near a kibbutz in southern Israel.

What’s the strategic value of the tunnels?

In March, a former Hamas prime minister, Ismail Haniya, said in a speech before thousands of supporters in Gaza City that tunnels open “a new strategy in confronting the occupation and in the conflict with the enemy from underground and from above the ground.” In June, five Palestinian militants were killed in an explosion in a tunnel in which they had been working. Hamas has long stored weapons underground.

Tunnels from Gaza to Israel have had a powerful hold on the Israeli psyche since 2006 when Hamas militants used one to capture an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held for five years before being released in a prisoner exchange.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hamas-tunnels.html

[hack89]

21. Imagine all the resources and money Hamas diverted to their military infrastructure

that could have gone towards the well being of the people. Why would any organization ever give Hamas a dime again?

[bemildred]

23. You would have to ask them.

But whatever the reasons given, I expect they will. All governments at war deprive their people to fund their wars, and the level of support they obtain from other governments and individuals tends to fluctuate as their fortunes in war do. From their point of view, Hamas has covered themselves in glory, so far. They wanted to establish some deterrence and credibility, and of course undermine Israel's. So far they are doing quite well.

It is still the case that Hamas are surrounded and outgunned, and Israel may still crush them, but it will be expensive. It's already expensive, and I don't see really destruction of the tunnels in any short period of time.

The other point, as I said elsewhere in this thread, I think, is that given the complete lack of safety on the surface anywhere in Gaza, it's the only place they can go: down. I expect it will stay that way as long as Gaza remains isolated, blockaded, and insecure, they will keep right on digging.

[hack89]

24. I think Israel has no choice but to crush Hamas now

a stronger Hamas will make for a bloodier war in the future. Pay the price to destroy the tunnels and kill as many Hamas leaders and fighter as possible.

[bemildred]

25. That is likely what is being debated now.

I think it's risky business. Wars never go the way you think. This is urban/tunnel warfare on their (Hamas') home turf. That is what they want, what they are playing for.

It is probably true that to let the status quo stand, to not try to destroy the tunnels, will have consequences too, possibly profound consequences, also unpredictable. How that would go would depend on many unpredictable things, but it would allow more time to prepare and consider too. It is rarely the right thing to act on impulse or out of strong emotion.

FWIW I do expect that the IDF will give it a try, at least the border tunnels.

[bemildred]

18. Israel pounds Gaza as Hamas rocket fire continues

The Israeli military bombarded the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, pushing the total death toll to nearly 600. The latest attacks left plumes of black smoke in the sky over the coastal enclave as ground troops continued their offensive, which Israel has announced is aimed at destroying tunnels used by the militant group Hamas, as well as sites used for launching rockets.

Most of those killed by Israel during its bombardment of the Gaza strip have been civilians, including more than 120 children. A further 900 children have been injured, according to the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF).

Among those reported killed on Tuesday were seven German citizens. A spokesman for the German Foreign Ministry told the DPA news agency that it had indications that all of the members of a German-Palestinian family had been killed in an attack on a building on Gaza City on Monday night. The dead included both parents and five children aged 4 to 12.

The father and mother had spent years living and working in Germany and all seven were citizens. The family had returned to the Palestinian Territories 13 years ago.

http://www.dw.de/israel-pounds-gaza-as-hamas-rocket-fire-continues/a-17800727?maca=en-rss-en-world-4025-rdf

[bemildred]

22. Tunnel Attack Fears Turn Gaza Border Kibbutzim Into Ghost Towns

Nir Am kibbutz, Israel: 'Residents stay in your homes! Do not go outside!' read the text message sent at dawn to the Israelis living on a kibbutz near the Gaza border, as soldiers searched the grounds for Palestinian gunmen.

While the Nir Am kibbutz was under lockdown on Monday, a deadly battle ensued between the Israeli troops and a squad of Gaza militants, who had tunnelled their way across the border and emerged about a mile away from the farm community.

Israel said it killed 10 gunmen in the battle. The military said some were wearing Israeli army uniform and were equipped with explosive belts. Four Israeli soldiers, including the commanding officer, died in the fight.

"The threat of a mortar bomb is nothing compared to a militant force of 10 men coming into our community to carry out a massacre," said Shaike Shaked, one of the founders of a nearby Israeli africultural community, Netiv Haasara.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/tunnel-attack-fears-turn-gaza-border-kibbutzim-into-ghost-towns-563250?curl=1406050872

[bemildred]

26. Gaza blockade key to any Israel-Hamas truce deal

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) -- Ibrahim Zain was driven from his home by Israeli tank fire this week, but says he'd rather endure more Israel-Hamas fighting than accept an unconditional cease-fire he fears will leave in place the blockade of the Gaza Strip.

Like Zain, many Gaza residents say the closure, imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas seized Gaza in 2007, is like a slow death: It prevents them from traveling, from importing cement to build homes and increasingly from earning enough to feed their families.

"We want a good life or no life," said the unemployed 44-year-old father of nine whose small scrap metal business fell victim to the blockade last year.

Disagreement over whether and how to lift the Gaza closure is a key stumbling block to ending more than two weeks of fighting between the Islamic militant Hamas and Israel.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_PALESTINIANS_LIVING_UNDER_BLOCKADE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-07-22-15-47-58