Why are the Palestinians so hated?

[RobertEarl]

I have read many statements about how the Palestinians are hated by the native people of the region, and have no clue as to why those claims may be true.

Anyone know the history behind that hate?

[bravenak]

1. I think it's bullshit.nt

[RobertEarl]

16. Hate usually is bs

Made up bs just meant to cause more problems.

Also as a way to justify injustice.

[bravenak]

17. Yep.

It's being used as an easy out in a way we would never condone against Israeli's. I would never say that it 's okay to bomb Israel since all their neighbors dislike them. It's disgusting.

And the whole "They never did anything with the land!" argument is sick and strange. I'll not steal your car is you never drive it. And i like driving.

[elleng]

2. The 'native' people of the region?

Who would that be, ASIDE from the Palestinians?

[House of Roberts]

3. That puzzled me also.

.

[RobertEarl]

4. Region: Middle East

[elleng]

6. And 'native people?'

[RobertEarl]

7. Indigenous then

You know, born there. Natives versus immigrants.

[elleng]

8. Please tell me specifically what people you're referring to,

who allegedly hate Palestinians.

Thanks.

[RobertEarl]

9. Posts on DU and in RL

Sorry I have not a link. But have seen it repeated many times. Next time I see such a post I will paste it here. Surely you are not implying I am making this up?

[elleng]

11. No, RobertEarl, I'm not suggesting that at all,

but do want to hear the facts upon you based the OP. Do follow up, if you see such a post.

[d_r]

10. I don't understand either

[WhiteTara]

26. uhh, native, indigenous means THE PALESTIANS are from there

and the Israelis were the immigrants.

[RobertEarl]

33. Yes, of course

The question is about the OTHER natives that are not Palestinians. Duh.

[newfie11]

18. Exactly. Nt

[Scootaloo]

5. As Bravnak says, it's bullshit.

"The other Arabs hate Palestinians!" is a piece of israel apologia meant to excuse and deflect from what israel does to the Palestinians, and is often an attempt to instill a similar disgust in the reader - "Even their own people can't stand them!"

I've seen other racists use the same methods when talking about American blacks "versus" Africans, or this native nation against that one, or whatever. I've also seen it used to divide segments of the LGBT community.

It's always a piece of shit person struggling to convince you their bigotry is legitimate.

[King_David]

12. Whats he mean by RL?

Posts on DU and in RL

[RobertEarl]

14. RL: Real Life

Have you ever heard or read about Palestinians being hated?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

21. Read his posts some time.

[King_David]

23. Palestinians are not hated , they are people

There are a certain type of people who hate a people for just being a people , antisemites for example , and some people will support terrorists and nurderers just because they are terrorizing Jews for example all the rallies and riots recently seen in Europe and a lot of the vitriol in the net.

Some groups are Palestinian terrorists such as Hamas that are not only anti Israel or anti Zionist or anti Jew but they also hate Gays vehemently and violently and there is good reason for "hating " them . ( and again this hatred of Gays brings them support on the outside too ) but Hamas are not the Palestinians ( there hasn't been a vote in many many years and never will be)

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

27. What a king- sized serving of BS...

You start by saying they are not hated, but then you go into a rant about terrorist and hatred of Jews and Gays. Anti-Semitism!

The query was about the Palestinians.

Your veneer is incredibly thin, king, and your hatred + bigotry shows through.

[hrmjustin]

31. Sorry but there are many people who hate Palestinins here and in Israel.

[King_David]

36. Why are Gays hated in Gaza and Palestine ?

Why are any minority hated?

[hrmjustin]

37. We are hated in many places. That is not my point and please stick to the Palestinians.

[King_David]

39. I am sticking to the Palestinians

Gays are hated in many places true but especially in Russia and especially in Muslim countries ( Turkey excepted) and as far as Muslim countries go Palestine Gaza Hamas are among the worst offenders .

[hrmjustin]

40. Thd question is about Palestinians. Why are they so hated?

[King_David]

42. Same with all minorities .

As demonstrated

[hrmjustin]

43. Americans have no respect for Palestinian lives.

[King_David]

45. Palestinians and Russians and Ugandans

Have no respect for gay lives .

[hrmjustin]

46. Can you please stick to the subject.

[King_David]

47. It is the subject

And very much a part of the subject.

Even if you don't want that part of the subject illuminated .

Why are a minority hated ( Palestinians) Well one could ask as easily /why do they hate a minority ( Jews Gays - just imagine Gay Jews)

It's not off topic and pretty important to me too as it turns out.

[hrmjustin]

48. Why do you think palestinians are hated then?

[King_David]

49. As I said all minorities are hated by bigots somewhere

Same reason why Jews are hated just about everywhere .

Same reason Gays are hated by Russia Hamas Palestine Uganda etc

It's irrational hate

[hrmjustin]

50. Gays are hated here and everwhere as well.

[King_David]

51. Yes but some places are especially terrible for Gays

Such as Gaza-Palestine , Russia , Uganda .

Gays are not hated in Canada , in the largest province of Ontario a Gay Premier was just overwhelmingly elected and Gays have equal rights in every facet of life.

[hrmjustin]

52. Yor talking about official goverment policy. I mean we will always have bigotry.

I think too many think Palestinian lives don't count.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

65. 39. I am sticking to the Palestinians. Gays are hated in many places...

Doesn't sound like it.

[sabbat hunter]

19. I do think that

many arab governments do not care about the Palestinians well being, but use them as a distraction from their own countries problems to their citizens.

That is just one point, but I think it is a case of many Arab governments either having apathy or antipathy towards the palestinians. This does not equate "other arabs hate palestinians"

[shaayecanaan]

13. you ever read the grapes of wrath?

That was a family of Oklahoma dust bowl refugees bound for California. The Californian authorities clearly despised them. Californian homesteaders shot them dead like dogs whenever they tried to take fruit from trees. You don't have to be a different race or religion to be hated.

I would say, however, that those attitudes have died down a lot since the 1970s but certainly once upon a time there was a real fear that the Palestinians would attempt to form a breakaway state in whatever country would take them.

[RobertEarl]

15. Whatever country would take them?

I think you hit on something with that. Can you explain further?

[shaayecanaan]

22. 750 000 Palestinian refugees fled from the Zionists in 1948

the largest portion ended up in Jordan in the first instance, mostly destitute peasants. Their presence there eventually culminated in the Jordanian civil war of 1970-71, where Palestinian militants that had previously carried out raids only against Israel gradually used their presence to carve out for themselves a "state within a state" within Jordan, and ultimately to try and topple the pro-Western Jordanian monarchy.

Their attempted rebellion was crushed and a large group of Palestinians were chased into Lebanon, joining an already sizeable contingent of Palestinian refugees there. Their presence there upset the delicate sectarian balance in Lebanon and eventually led to the Lebanese Civil War in 1975, which was a fratricidal war mainly between pro-Western and pro-Israel Maronite Christian Lebanese, pro-Saudi Sunni militants, and pro-Iranian Shia groups.

That war eventually led to Israel invading Lebanon, and in the Palestinian leadership again being expelled, this time to Tunisia. However the Palestinian refugees remain in Lebanon to this day, although they are still precluded from entering certain occupations and the public services.

Essentially no one wanted the Palestinians because they were a huge wave of discontented and fractious refugees. It was quite similar to the treatment of Jewish emigres from WW2, in that no one wanted to take them on either.

[RobertEarl]

30. No one wanted the Palestinians?

First they were run off their land, then when found refuge in another country were run off and treated miserably.

Then you say: "It was quite similar to the treatment of Jewish emigres from WW2, in that no one wanted to take them on either." And I have to ask why was that? Why were the Jewish emigres not wanted?

I have read some Jewish people were denied being allowed in the US.

[bemildred]

20. Palestinians are native people of the region.

And Israel hates them because they are an existential threat to Israel, being the prior owner/occupants of a lot of what is now Israel.

[Alameda]

73. the name Palestinian is sort of a misnomer.....

they ARE the indigenous people of the area, an area that has been populated for many thousands of years. DNA testing has even found they are related to the Israelis.

It's interesting to study the ancient history of the area, and I don't mean Biblical history. We are talking about people of the Fertile Crescent Many of the Palestinians have roots there that go way way back.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maps_of_the_Fertile_Crescent#mediaviewer/File:Map_of_fertile_cresent-sr.svg

[hack89]

24. They keep dragging neighboring countries into war

Jordan in the 1970's was the tipping point - PLO attacks from from Jordan into Israel destabilized Jordan . That is why Black Septmber happened. They then moved to Lebanon where PLO attacks into Israel led to the 1982 war.

The Palestian habit of waging war from their neighbor's territory and inserting themselves into domestic politics pissed people off. That is why they are hated.

[Igel]

25. #23 nailed much of it.

Politically they were a problem. They couldn't fit in because the other countries didn't have room for them. Lots of Palestinians to fit into other, none-too-wealthy countries.

The other part is more local and traditional. Tribe, clan, family matter a lot in places like Iraq. A bit less in some other countries. Not so much in Egypt--but Egypt let few Palestinians get past Gaza into Sinai, and fewer into Egypt proper. You pick up a lot of Palestinians and move them you have to intrude on some other clan's prerogatives. You separate them out and they have no clan or tribe to protect them and help them, while clans and families are helping each other.

The UNRWA didn't help. They put the Palestinians in refugee camps and enabled those countries' response to the refugees. It's a good short-term solution, but a horrible long-term solution. Imagine if all the Latino "economic refugees" in the US were put into camps, given some space, and not really allowed out as well as denied US citizenship. Denied property rights, and in places like Lebanon easy access to work permits, they're forever citizens of their former country--and if they have kids and grandkids and greatgrandkids, those are also citizens of their parents' former country. The UN helps them with food and shelter and schools, and they form a kind of school inside a school.

Moreover, the Palestinians are losers. They ran. They fled. They have no honor, no dignity. For some, that matters. It's not by accident that one of the biggest goals is to live with "dignity"--even people in spartan but reasonable apts. that get enough food, have a bit of money beyond basic needs, and have jobs still say they want to live with "dignity", by which they don't necessarily have money in mind. A culture that dwells on its own humiliation is dangerous to itself and others.

Some of this is because of local cultures. In Lebanon this was to maintain sectarian parity--Maronite Xians, Sunni, and Shi'a balance would be disturbed by more Sunnis added to the mix. It's why the Lebanese really don't want another census; Shi'ites are probably a majority and that would create serious turmoil. Some of this is because the Palestinians are a good stick for beating up on Israel, a forever unresolved humanitarian and human-rights issue.

"Hate" is far too strong a word, BTW. In some cases, "despise." In others, "condescend to." In most cases it's just "disregard" or "have antipathy towards".

[Smarmie Doofus]

28. They're in the way? n/t

[WatermelonRat]

29. Kuwait is the only place I'm aware of where that's common (because they supported Saddam Hussein)

I know that Jordan and Lebanon have tensions with them as well, but I cannot speak with certainty about the degree. Egypt has very bad relations with HAMAS at the moment, but they seem very much on the Palestinians side in general.

[hack89]

32. Jordon kicked out the PLO with a lot of bloodshed involved

google Black September.

[azurnoir]

56. That was in 1971 today about half of Jordans population is Palestinian

in fact Jordan has given citizenship to more Palestinians than any other country including Israel, something that has lead to what seems a popular idea among some called the 'Jordan option' as a solution to the I/P dilemma, apparently you've never heard of it?

[hack89]

57. Anti-Palestinian Discrimination in Jordan Now It's Official

In a daring and unprecedented move, Jordanian politicians, academics, political activists and media figures have sent a letter to King Abdullah urging him to end discrimination against Jordanians of Palestinian origin.

Palestinians carrying Jordanian passports say that unlike his father, King Abdullah has been doing his utmost to "marginalize" them through a series of laws, royal decrees and security measures.

The letter that was sent to him notes that the Jordanian authorities have been revoking the [Jordanian] citizenship of many Palestinians. The letter also expressed concern over King Abdullah's ongoing effort to limit the number of Palestinians in parliament, adding that such a move would be in violation of the constitution.

The letter reveals that Jordanians of Palestinian origin suffer from discrimination in many walks of life, including when they are held in prison. Discrimination is also employed against Palestinians when they seek to enroll in Jordanian universities, where priority is given to Jordanians with no Palestinian roots.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3249/anti-palestinian-discrimination-jordan

Yes - the Jordanians love them some Palestinians.

[azurnoir]

58. yes a popular meme presented this time by John Bolton's Gatestone Institute

Thanks I couldn't have asked for more

[King_David]

59. Anti-Palestinian Discrimination in Jordan

But all indications are that King Abdullah still has not realized the approaching tornado. Instead of embarking on real and meaningful reforms and combating rampant rampant financial and administrative corruption, he has directed his energies against Jordanians of Palestinian origin. The king is already being threatened by the powerful and popular Muslim Brotherhood; he may soon have to face an even bigger threat.

In a daring and unprecedented move, Jordanian politicians, academics, political activists and media figures have sent a letter to King Abdullah urging him to end discrimination against Jordanians of Palestinian origin.
The letter serves as a warning to the monarch that the Palestinian majority in the kingdom would one day revolt against continued oppression and discrimination.
The last time Palestinians challenged the Hashemite royal family was in the late 1960s. Then, the late King Hussein sent his army to crush the revolt, killing thousands of Palestinians in what has since become to be known as Black September.
Although King Abdullah’s wife, Queen Rania, is a Palestinian from the West Bank, his attitude towards Palestinians living in his kingdom has not been much different from that of other Arab countries.
In the early 1990s, more than 400,000 Palestinians were expelled from the Gulf in retaliation for the PLO’s support of Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait. When Kuwait was liberated, many Palestinians who remained in the sheikdom were killed or tortured by angry Kuwaitis.

http://weeklypresspakistan.com/2012/08/4424

----------------------------------------------------------------
HUMAN RIGHTS
Interview: Jordan revoking citizenship from Palestinian refugees



Palestinians in Jordan constitute both the majority of the kingdom’s population, and the largest Palestinian refugee community in the world. In the 1960s, Jordan was the main area of operation for militant Palestinian factions who used it as both a recruiting and training ground for guerrillas, as well as a launching ground for most commando operations into occupied Palestine. After the 1967 war, the largest of these factions joined the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), which grew so strong within the kingdom that it was described as a state within the state. The Jordanian regime and its military launched an 11-day war against the PLO in September of 1970, expelling the fighters from the kingdom’s urban centers, and dealt a final blow to the Palestinian resistance in July 1971, expelling the fighters that remained to Lebanon and Syria.

Despite the size of the Palestinian population in Jordan, this community is largely absent from mainstream analysis. The fact that the Jordanian government granted Palestinian refugees Jordanian citizenship very early on, has played a significant role in presenting this community’s needs as less urgent than those of Palestinians elsewhere. In recent years, however, rumors and reports about the revocation of Palestinians’ Jordanian citizenship have circulated, but it has been far from clear what is really happening.

Hazem Jamjoum spoke to Anis F. Kassim, an international law expert and practicing lawyer in Jordan to clarify what is known about the situation of Palestinian citizenship rights in Jordan. Kassim was a member of the Palestinian legal defense team before the International Court of Justice in the 2004 landmark case on Israel’s wall in the occupied West Bank.

http://electronicintifada.net/content/interview-jordan-revoking-citizenship-palestinian-refugees/9241

--------------
From the ridiculously biased and unreliable Electronic Intifada no less.

[azurnoir]

62. hmmm sounds litle different and in fact better than Israel were Palestinians are

rarely 'granted' citizenship unless they are born to Palestinian citizens of Israel and subject to discriminatory laws

and the revocation of citizenship meme was debunked when it was shown that over the same period of time Jordan had granted more Palestinians citizenship than revoked

[King_David]

63. Link ?

[azurnoir]

64. No link more like links

Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-21-09 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. From the JordanTimes:

Edited on Tue Jul-21-09 12:51 AM by Scurrilous
"In 1989, when Jordan disengaged from the West Bank, all Palestinians residing in the West Bank were considered Palestinian, while others in the diaspora with Jordanian passports were considered Jordanian.

The decision was made to allow the Palestine Liberation Organisation to act as the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

Following the disengagement, Jordan issued yellow cards to Palestinians in Jordan and the diaspora holding Jordanian passports, which entitled these individuals to the full rights of Jordanian citizenship.

Palestinians in the West Bank who had family living in Jordan were issued green cards, which entitled them to temporary Jordanian passports to facilitate travel but did not grant them citizenship rights.

Palestinians with yellow cards who return to Palestine and receive recognition as nationals under either Israeli or Palestinian law revoke their right to a yellow card and are issued a green card when they renew their passports. Conversely, Palestinians with green cards may be granted yellow cards in certain circumstances, such as when their parents reside in Jordan and hold yellow cards.

According to figures cited by the deputy, authorities replaced 190 yellow cards with green ones and 5,130 green cards with yellow ones in the period between March 1 and June 30, 2009, compared to replacing 204 yellow cards with green and 4,139 green with yellow in the same period in 2008.

The figures also show that 244 people were issued green cards, while 2,696 were issued yellow cards in the same period of 2007."

http://www.jordantimes.com/?news=18480&searchFor=citize...


Looks like a lot more Palestinians gained citizenship then lost it.



And oh yeah, look over there...a soccer riot!!1!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=281667#281696

and

azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Well you can remark on this

first this issue was discussed here last July, this is a article from that thread that gives a more complete picture and a link to the thread it self

AMMAN - Authorities are not withdrawing nationalities from Jordanians of Palestinian origin in an unjustified manner, a parliamentary representative said on Thursday.

Chairperson of the House Freedoms Committee Fakhri Daoud said the committee received many complaints from people saying that authorities withdrew their Jordanian passports without cause.

“We summoned the minister of interior to clarify this issue, and found that what was said is not true,” Daoud told the press following the meeting with the minister.

“Authorities were only implementing the 1989 administrative and legal disengagement between Jordan and the West Bank,” Daoud said, adding that figures provided by the ministry this year are almost similar to the previous years.

In 1989, when Jordan disengaged from the West Bank, all Palestinians residing in the West Bank were considered Palestinian, while others in the diaspora with Jordanian passports were considered Jordanian.

The decision was made to allow the Palestine Liberation Organisation to act as the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.

Following the disengagement, Jordan issued yellow cards to Palestinians in Jordan and the diaspora holding Jordanian passports, which entitled these individuals to the full rights of Jordanian citizenship.

Palestinians in the West Bank who had family living in Jordan were issued green cards, which entitled them to temporary Jordanian passports to facilitate travel but did not grant them citizenship rights.

Palestinians with yellow cards who return to Palestine and receive recognition as nationals under either Israeli or Palestinian law revoke their right to a yellow card and are issued a green card when they renew their passports. Conversely, Palestinians with green cards may be granted yellow cards in certain circumstances, such as when their parents reside in Jordan and hold yellow cards.

According to figures cited by the deputy, authorities replaced 190 yellow cards with green ones and 5,130 green cards with yellow ones in the period between March 1 and June 30, 2009, compared to replacing 204 yellow cards with green and 4,139 green with yellow in the same period in 2008.

The figures also show that 244 people were issued green cards, while 2,696 were issued yellow cards in the same period of 2007.

“The rumours about this issue are the result of the political developments in the region,” Daoud quoted the minister as saying.

Interior officials have defended the procedures saying that they are meant to counter Israeli policies to “empty the Palestinian lands from their legitimate residents”.

http://www.jordantimes.com/?news=18480&searchFor=citize...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[King_David]

69. Not sure any of that proves your point

Jordan still revoked citizenship in Palestinians the only reason being they were Palestinian and wanted to prevent a majority .

[azurnoir]

71. ah ya that's why they gave more Palestinians citizenship than they revoked

yep that'll prevent a majority 4 shur

[King_David]

72. Good analysis

It can cut and paste into your google translate I guess?

[LeftishBrit]

34. What do you mean by 'native people of the region'? Palestinians aren't immigrants.

They have been badly treated by the Arab states as well as Israel, if that's what you mean.

[RobertEarl]

35. They have been badly treated... Yes.

So why is that? Why do you make the claim the Palestinians have been badly treated? That's what I am asking. Why?

[King_David]

38. Why are minorities hated?

Why are Jews hated? Why does Iran hate the Bahai or Turkey the Kurds?

Or Palestine both West Bank and Gaza but especially Hamas hates Gays.

[RobertEarl]

41. Because haters are idiots?

Why would Israel show hate to the Palestinians? Because the idiots are in charge?

[King_David]

44. Haters are idiots , true

There's hate in Israel , Palestine , USA and Russia and France and Uganda

[RobertEarl]

53. So, Israeli hatred is...

...because of idiots in Israel? So why are the idiots in Israel tolerated?

[King_David]

54. Most of Israeli hatred is for other reasons .

Than you mentioned but the same reason some people hate minorities such as Jews Gays and Palestinians .

[RobertEarl]

55. Why is there hate in Israel, as you claimed?

Last edited Wed Jul 30, 2014, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)

And why does that hate control what Israel does?

[King_David]

60. I do not think that is true.

[RobertEarl]

66. What are you saying?

In post 44 you wrote: "There's hate in Israel ...."

Are you now saying there is no hate in Israel?

[King_David]

67. You said the hate controls everything Israel does

huh ???

I had enuf of this cryptic game .

C ya

[RobertEarl]

68. No I didn't

But I will state that you are not to be believed because you can't even keep your story straight.

And:
There is obvious hate in Israel and that hate does have an affect on Israeli policies.

No one can deny either of those facts. Well, they can, but no one would believe them.

[Calista241]

61. Go back far enough, and everyone is an immigrant.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

70. Perhaps the are most hated by the colonist state of Israel that believes

it can take their land for its own use..and act with mock outrage when they stand up in defiance?